This old guys cycle results

[rockabilly]

Stats: 65 years old. 6' tall. 185lbs.Bodyfat % unknown(34"waist). Ectomorph bodytype.
History: Lifting for 41 years(religously). Three previous cycles over last 10-15 years. Four working sets per bodypart,twice a week, 60 seconds rest.(not overtraining IMO).
Cycle: Day 1-4 30mg d-bl.
Week 1-6 Stallion Labs test cyp. 250mg twice a week.
End of first week 4lb.gain. End of second week. another 5lb gain. (I can't see a 9lb water gain from only 4 days d-bol). No gain weeks 3,4,5,6.Did gain 1" on waist from increased calories(clean). So, what's with no gain after 2nd. week?
PCT: HRT (70mg/week patches).
5 squirts Derma. 8 weeks
Unleashed
Myogenx
Lost everything by 8 weeks. Like I said, I'm 65 but that doesn't mean shit to me. Needto says nobody my age is going to keep any gains no matter what their PCT is. I know The Lion does. He keeps about a third. Am I all fucked up here or can anybody help?

 

[samoth]

Interesting. Definitely keep us informed. Not many people your age cycle, so the effects are worth noting (even if only for academic interest to younger people).

I wouldn't think your age in and of itself would dictate whether or not you keep any gains achieved from exogeneous androgens.

The Lion and other older members could probably have some worthwhile words of wisdom and experience here.

 

[Nelson Montana]

A few points.

Someone of your age and lifting experience has such strong muscle memory, it works both ways. After all those years your body simply wants to go to where it's comfortable. You can probably take time off and still hold muscle whereas most men your age would look like shit. But yeah, it's tough to add onto where your body wants to be.

Secondly,. PC T is more to restore the HPTA. How was the libido?

Thirdly, you may need to alter the training if you're really interested in maintaining size. It sounds like you're doing a "pump style" training and that's fine but it won't yield massive muscle gains. Of course, going heavy is precarious once one gets older so you have to be careful.

I'm assuming you gained mostly water from the cycle. You should have used the extra strength to lift heavier. And increased protein intake post cycle. Try that next time with the same PC T and let us know how it works out.

 

[needtogetaas]

Stats: 65 years old. 6' tall. 185lbs.Bodyfat % unknown(34"waist). Ectomorph bodytype.
History: Lifting for 41 years(religously). Three previous cycles over last 10-15 years. Four working sets per bodypart,twice a week, 60 seconds rest.(not overtraining IMO).
Cycle: Day 1-4 30mg d-bl.
Week 1-6 Stallion Labs test testosterone cypionate. 250mg twice a week.
End of first week 4lb.gain. End of second week. another 5lb gain. (I can't see a 9lb water gain from only 4 days Dianabol - methandrostenolone - ). No gain weeks 3,4,5,6.Did gain 1" on waist from increased calories(clean). So, what's with no gain after 2nd. week?
PCT - post cycle therapy - : HRT (70mg/week patches).
5 squirts Derma. 8 weeks
Unleashed
Myogenx
Lost everything by 8 weeks. Like I said, I'm 65 but that doesn't mean shit to me. Needto says nobody my age is going to keep any gains no matter what their PCT is. I know The Lion does. He keeps about a third. Am I all fucked up here or can anybody help?

I did not say no one...but I did say your 64 years old and when you come off cycle and do pct "the pct is going to bring you back to normal test levels for a 64 year old male"and not any higher.so for a 64 year old man how high do you think your normal test levels are...I am thinking not that high.some men at that age still have good test levels but it sounds like you dont
meh what ever.

 

[rockabilly]

I did not say no one...but I did say your 64 years old and when you come off cycle and do PCT - post cycle therapy - "the PCT - post cycle therapy - is going to bring you back to normal test levels for a 64 year old male"and not any higher.so for a 64 year old man how high do you think your normal test levels are...I am thinking not that high.some men at that age still have good test levels but it sounds like you dont
meh what ever.

My libido is always good. Always want to screw everything in sight. My normal test(before HRT) is around 200-300.
My lifts are enough to do 8 reps. I did go heavier as my strength increased.
Again, can't see 9 lbs water if only from 4 days d-bol
Part of the increase in calories was from extra protein.

 

[RADAR]

Stats: 65 years old. 6' tall. 185lbs.Bodyfat % unknown(34"waist). Ectomorph bodytype.
History: Lifting for 41 years(religously). Three previous cycles over last 10-15 years. Four working sets per bodypart,twice a week, 60 seconds rest.(not overtraining IMO).
Cycle: Day 1-4 30mg d-bl.
Week 1-6 Stallion Labs test testosterone cypionate. 250mg twice a week.
End of first week 4lb.gain. End of second week. another 5lb gain. (I can't see a 9lb water gain from only 4 days Dianabol - methandrostenolone - ). No gain weeks 3,4,5,6.Did gain 1" on waist from increased calories(clean). So, what's with no gain after 2nd. week?
PCT - post cycle therapy - : HRT (70mg/week patches).
5 squirts Derma. 8 weeks
Unleashed
Myogenx
Lost everything by 8 weeks. Like I said, I'm 65 but that doesn't mean shit to me. Needto says nobody my age is going to keep any gains no matter what their PCT is. I know The Lion does. He keeps about a third. Am I all fucked up here or can anybody help?

You can hold most of your gains,i said most not all, I'm 56, maybe you are skimping of minor factors, such as training intensity, diet etc, some fail to realize that after a cycle, that going back to a more laid back routine,and slacking on training intensity and less calories are not going to let you keep gains, set a game plan and stick to it.

RADAR

 

[needtogetaas]

You can hold most of your gains,i said most not all, I'm 56, maybe you are skimping of minor factors, such as training intensity, diet etc, some fail to realize that after a cycle, that going back to a more laid back routine,and slacking on training intensity and less calories are not going to let you keep gains, set a game plan and stick to it.

RADAR

this guy^^^^ can help you better bro he has more life experience with what your dealing with then I do..

 

[motoxer125]

you can still put on water weight with test. did you use an AI?
your cycle was only 500mg of test for 6 weeks. test cyp takes about 4 weeks to fully kick in anyway and by that time you were ending your cycle. especially at your age, short cycles arent going to show much results.
your pct was basically going back down to what i can assume is TRT, which isn't a PCT, but thats ok.
I would suggest upping your hrt to 125mg test cyp, a week and see what happens, then maybe upping again to 200mg. (run low ai depending) You will see steady results and keep everything you gain. there really isnt a need to cycle at your age. you are not going to recover and your current trt is so much lower then your cycle dose that you just lose what you've gained.
take what you want from my thoughts
hope this helps

 

[rockabilly]

You can hold most of your gains,i said most not all, I'm 56, maybe you are skimping of minor factors, such as training intensity, diet etc, some fail to realize that after a cycle, that going back to a more laid back routine,and slacking on training intensity and less calories are not going to let you keep gains, set a game plan and stick to it.

RADAR

Workouts, including intensity, did not change post cycle except for some loss of strength. Calories stayed same during PCT.

 

[702daswoll1]

Maybe the gear used later in the cycle was not any good....

 

[Triple J]

i just do not inderstand why you will not just stay on as in HRT+ no point dealing with the frustration of cycling on and off at your age

 

[rockabilly]

the law of diminishing returns

 

[10001110101]

how much did your strength improve?

the 9 pounds was probably water. if it comes on fast (within days) it has to be water. muscle comes on steadily and evenly (noticeable over a period of weeks).

you probably have an age related deficiency of growth hormones (and/or growth factors) (HGH, IGF-1) that are necessary to build and maintain muscle mass. testosterone and anabolic/androgenic steroids are only one part of the equation. if you dont have an appropriate growth factor response by the rest of your body, you will not grow.

maybe try adding HGH or IGF to your next cycle, or using them alone?

i dunno. seems reasonable.

 

[DannoMight]

stay on a low dose of test like hrt. even if its like 200mgs cyp or enat every week or two. or take some test boosting supps.

 

[rockabilly]

I know test. takes a while to act but I should have gained a little bit in weeks 3,4,5,6 given that 9 lbs. the first 2 weeks was water.

 

[rockabilly]

Guess I didn't really loose anything since I never really gained anything.

 

[needtogetaas]

i just do not inderstand why you will not just stay on as in HRT+ no point dealing with the frustration of cycling on and off at your age

kind of what I was getting at.

 

[artificialaspirations]

kind of what I was getting at.

+1

 

[Bigsir07]

Stats: 65 years old. 6' tall. 185lbs.Bodyfat % unknown(34"waist). Ectomorph bodytype.
History: Lifting for 41 years(religously). Three previous cycles over last 10-15 years. Four working sets per bodypart,twice a week, 60 seconds rest.(not overtraining IMO).
Cycle: Day 1-4 30mg d-bl.
Week 1-6 Stallion Labs test testosterone cypionate. 250mg twice a week.
End of first week 4lb.gain. End of second week. another 5lb gain. (I can't see a 9lb water gain from only 4 days Dianabol - methandrostenolone - ). No gain weeks 3,4,5,6.Did gain 1" on waist from increased calories(clean). So, what's with no gain after 2nd. week?
PCT - post cycle therapy - : HRT (70mg/week patches).
5 squirts Derma. 8 weeks
Unleashed
Myogenx
Lost everything by 8 weeks. Like I said, I'm 65 but that doesn't mean shit to me. Needto says nobody my age is going to keep any gains no matter what their PCT is. I know The Lion does. He keeps about a third. Am I all fucked up here or can anybody help?

One of my first questions would be are you on any other medications. Certain meds like beta blockers for high BP can decrease normal test levels. Also as we age men tend to have higher levels of SHBG (sex hormone Binding globulin). In some cases you will find that SHBG levels will increase as androgens increase. In this case, free testosterone is decreased again and effects are arrested. Those things combined with the fact that you may have higher aromatase levels could all contribute.
Perhaps an AI would help. If you are being followed by an MD for hypogonadism, why not have a free and total testosterone drawn along with and estradiol level is see where you are falling.
The other mentions of training intensity and caloric intake are huge as well. If you planning to get tested again. Try to get the blood drawn right before your next cypionate injection. This will show trough levels which are best. Also, do you know if you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. The first is the failure of the testicles to produce test. Secondary is the failure of the pituitary axis to produce gonadotropins. It is always good to get a Prolactin level checked. If you have a prolactinoma, all the test in the world won't help you make gains long term.
Just curious, who tested you? If it was an internal medicine doctor, most will only check total test and seeing your levels were 200 to 300 I assume that was total. Free levels come in much lower. Did you know that you can have a fine looking total especially at age 65 and have hypogonadism because you don't have a nirmal free test level? Most docs don't know it either.
I'd ask for a free / total test level, estradiol, and prolactin. Also, I hope he is checking you PSA. Good luck!

Bigs

 

[rockabilly]

No beta blockers for BP. Used aromatase during cycle. Don't know if primary or secondary hypogonadism.. How would I find out?
Guess my next step is getting those tests done. Free/total test, estradoil, prolactin. Any others? Thanks Bigs

 

[thelion2005]

First ....
Good to see Radar!!

This is a great post. We have a guy doing everything right and not keeping his gains. A good mystery.

I can easily keep 25-35% depending on the stack. I usually pick up a lot of water from dbol and certain nandos and urinate it out when I stop and go back to HRT. I get a lot of joint pain relief during the cycle so I'm OK with that loss. 6 lbs of water in the first 2 weeks is normal.

I will also deliberately drop some pounds during HRT by really cutting back fast/simple carbos. It is fun walking around at 230-235, but it is tiring and I don't fit ... so I go down to 205 for some relief.

Maybe you still need to find that one aas that really clicks with your body. I know I'm still looking. I'm suspecting that mine could be an injected anavar.

Even though you have this problem ... are you having fun during the cycle?

 

[GUARDIAN]

We need Nelson to get in contact with Albert Beckles. He competed into his 60's. He must have the answer

 

[thelion2005]

Had to eliminate the orals! My bp climbed to 180/105. Within 2 days of backing off the orals, I was down to under 120 and under 80.

I felt terrible until the pills were eliminated.

Dropped 8 pounds of water.

Must have hit a bad batch of BD t-bol.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Albert Beckles is a freak. Byt the way, it was Jack LaLAnne's 93rd birthday this week. I interviewed him a few years back. A total wacko, but he knows his shit.

Anyway, at 65, the supression from the cycle was probabaly so severe there's no way to maintain extra muscle. Advice -- HRT, 100 mgs a week to start, regular use of UNLEASHED, Derma and MyogenX. Twice a week 1/4 tab of dexx.

 

[cboogsrun]

i'm guessing here, but I would think you might need to look into a little hgh to keep your gains. Diet might also be another issue. You need to consume a certain amount of calories to maintain body weight.

Stats: 65 years old. 6' tall. 185lbs.Bodyfat % unknown(34"waist). Ectomorph bodytype.
History: Lifting for 41 years(religously). Three previous cycles over last 10-15 years. Four working sets per bodypart,twice a week, 60 seconds rest.(not overtraining IMO).
Cycle: Day 1-4 30mg d-bl.
Week 1-6 Stallion Labs test testosterone cypionate. 250mg twice a week.
End of first week 4lb.gain. End of second week. another 5lb gain. (I can't see a 9lb water gain from only 4 days Dianabol - methandrostenolone - ). No gain weeks 3,4,5,6.Did gain 1" on waist from increased calories(clean). So, what's with no gain after 2nd. week?
PCT - post cycle therapy - : HRT (70mg/week patches).
5 squirts Derma. 8 weeks
Unleashed
Myogenx
Lost everything by 8 weeks. Like I said, I'm 65 but that doesn't mean shit to me. Needto says nobody my age is going to keep any gains no matter what their PCT is. I know The Lion does. He keeps about a third. Am I all fucked up here or can anybody help?

 

[solidspine]

Nice cycle test and d-bol,

A little short, right after the Test C kicked in you started pct,


I think you could do 400mg Test C a week for HRT


If you are still cycling, next time


Try

Weeks 1-12 Test C or E 750mg
Weeks 1-12 Deca 750mg
Weeks 1-6 D-bol 50mg ED
Weeks 1-6 Tren Ace 50mg ED

Anti-E

PCT


The most noticeable problem I see for older lifters is injury, maybe that is why you abbreviated your cycle.

This certainly seems to be my case, and I am right behind you at age 57

 

[thelion2005]

I'm just going to coast out. BP is down and I've leveled out at 212 at 6 ft.
100 npp and 200 test c twice a week for 3 more weeks. Then good old HRT.
And HGH is in the mix.

If you saw my thread on the new daughter, you'll see that has taken over my brain. I am so fing happy. She loves me like this. LOL

 

[nzrodney]

How many calories where you consuming daily during your cycle? Carbs are just or more important than protein for energy & growth. Gear is only part of the equation dose not matter what age. You may wish to consider TRT - Test E 250mg PW. Forget the orals & be very careful using Tren as it can cause increased prostate cellular activity in the older male. PS: Age is only a number.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nice cycle test and Dianabol - methandrostenolone - ,

A little short, right after the testosterone cypionate kicked in you started PCT - post cycle therapy - ,


I think you could do 400mg Test C a week for HRT


If you are still cycling, next time


Try

Weeks 1-12 Test C or E 750mg
Weeks 1-12 Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - 750mg
Weeks 1-6 D-bol 50mg ED
Weeks 1-6 trenbolone Ace 50mg ED

Anti-E

PCT

QUOTE]

Where do you get this stuff from? It seems like you just mix and match lots of compounds and high dosages and whatever pops into your head and recommened it.

 

[perryscoon]

Stats: 65 years old. 6' tall. 185lbs.Bodyfat % unknown(34"waist). Ectomorph bodytype.
History: Lifting for 41 years(religously). Three previous cycles over last 10-15 years. Four working sets per bodypart,twice a week, 60 seconds rest.(not overtraining IMO).
Cycle: Day 1-4 30mg d-bl.
Week 1-6 Stallion Labs test testosterone cypionate. 250mg twice a week.
End of first week 4lb.gain. End of second week. another 5lb gain. (I can't see a 9lb water gain from only 4 days Dianabol - methandrostenolone - ). No gain weeks 3,4,5,6.Did gain 1" on waist from increased calories(clean). So, what's with no gain after 2nd. week?
PCT - post cycle therapy - : HRT (70mg/week patches).
5 squirts Derma. 8 weeks
Unleashed
Myogenx
Lost everything by 8 weeks. Like I said, I'm 65 but that doesn't mean shit to me. Needto says nobody my age is going to keep any gains no matter what their PCT is. I know The Lion does. He keeps about a third. Am I all fucked up here or can anybody help?

I don't think your age has anything to do with this. Something else is wrong here. I think that the gear you used in week 3 onward were bad/fake. Even with poor diet and training you would see SOME changes on 500mg test/EW. You could inject test into a bed ridden vegetable and they would make gains so I think ur gear was bad.

The only gear I've ever taken that did absolutely nothing was equipoise.