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Most definately. There are always mixed opinions about aas, and it shouldn't always mean one thing is wrong and the other one is right.
Look for the grey, don't just see things in black and white.
Stop Recommending Testosterone To Newbies!
- Thread starter Nelson Montana
- Start date
Most definately. There are always mixed opinions about aas, and it shouldn't always mean one thing is wrong and the other one is right.
Look for the grey, don't just see things in black and white.
And polish it to your preference.
If you don't care how suppressed you get, what does it matter? If you are extremely weary of suppression, then nelsons argument does have grounds for consideration.
That's really what it's about. Noting is set in stone. And it's not like we're curing cancer here. But every now and then it's important to challenge conventional thinking. And when it comes to newbies they should always to be trying to play it safe as opposed to going with the current fashion -- which will surely change next year.
perryscoon
New member
I agree 100% with this post.
Var or Primo is best for a first cycle.
Test shuts you down more than anything. Your body already makes test, so when it see's all that extra test floating around, guess what? It STOPS making it.(to make things simple) Some people can NEVER recover fully after being shut down, no matter how much clomid and hcg they take.
Anavar and Primo shut you down the least, if at all and are very good steroids.
Var or Primo is best for a first cycle.
Test shuts you down more than anything. Your body already makes test, so when it see's all that extra test floating around, guess what? It STOPS making it.(to make things simple) Some people can NEVER recover fully after being shut down, no matter how much clomid and hcg they take.
Anavar and Primo shut you down the least, if at all and are very good steroids.
you seem to have great genetics though...imagine the results you would have if you used them type of doses!I always find it funny when I see people use 1.5-2 grs of test and they are the size of my left thigh...maybe that's why
500mgs of test e is enuogh for some pretty good damn growth. 750mgs if you're a beast on your 5th cycle. Anything over a gram and you're just getting rediculous, unless you're competing.
alot of people have shitty genetics and have to make up for it by useing alot of gear...some poeple grow crazy on nothing at all
trying to make up for your lack of one thing or another with crazy amounts of steroids is the dumbest shit thing you can do.
I have shitty genetics, started weight lifting at 6'2" and 160 lbs. after retiring from minor league ball (injury).
I was a fucking stick in every sense of the word. 2 1/2 years later I am 218 pounds and I have never used more than 500mg test and 30mg dbol kicker (which was only once, may I add) My other cycle was 250mg test every 5 day, and 20mg dbol kicker, which was after losing all my gains after being sick for 3 months, I dropped from a little over 200 to 170.
For someone who is genetically skinny as shit and all their family on both sides are tall lanky guys, anyone who uses that excuse looks pathetic to me.
Wanna know what the problem is? They don't eat enough. A simple, but major part of the equation.
Pat_McCrotch
New member
I have always liked NM posts. he brings a veiw that others do not see coming. He makes you think.
Pat_McCrotch
New member
Bro primo gains tend to be kept more often that Test gains. His original point was that Primo is better d/t less sides and better Post Cycle gains. Even with teh best PCT on board with test or d ball or most others you will still lose some of your gains, for the most part. There is always the excption. BTW your back is jacked.
there you are, sugartits. been a while. how ya been?
Pat_McCrotch
New member
You dont need an AI or an anti E with primo. Nelson big thing is why take something to counter the effect of something else. His ideas from what I remember are less is best.
The more compunds you put in your body the possibility of more sides and with more sides come more meds.
Yes Primo is costly but from what I have read you dont need to do 1000mg/wk to make nice gains. 300-400/wk would suffice.
There are less sides with primo which is great for a Noob. I believe this was his point.
Pat_McCrotch
New member
I am unsure what post you have been reading but he has made it clear why he made the statement he made. Go back and read a few pages back. He is making this claim based off what is known about roids. When you introduce test it shuts down the HPTA. If shut down long enough it may not recover to what it was before.
The sides can be bad and you have to take other things to prevent/decrease the chance of sides. Primo is a much milder compund.
The gola of this site is to educate peole and protect noobs and other members on this board with solid and safe advice such as what Nelson posted. His title may have been a bit on the abrupt side but this is how he gets peeps in here to read what he says.
Pat_McCrotch
New member
Maybe I am misunderstanding what your saying but 6'2 and 200lbs is close to being tall and lanky. LOL
Pat_McCrotch
New member
My baby is keeping me busy and trying to close on our house is doing the same. Been working 4-5 12 hours shifts a week at work too. Its a wonder I still ge to workout. lol
I always find it funny when I see people use 1.5-2 grs of test and they are the size of my left thigh...maybe that's why
500mgs of test e is enuogh for some pretty good damn growth. 750mgs if you're a beast on your 5th cycle. Anything over a gram and you're just getting rediculous, unless you're competing.
There's also the difference between UG test and HG test.
Human grade test bets out any UG test. Basically, HG test at 500mgs/week sometimes feels like 1g/week UG.
Maybe I am misunderstanding what your saying but 6'2 and 200lbs is close to being tall and lanky. LOL
pretty much
I'm 218 right now, but I was 200 a little over a year ago, which was up from 160 the year before that. then dropping to 170 after getting sick. Giving my starting point, it was very good progress until I ate the shit with fucking pneuomonia.
Good thing is I never get too high in BF. I was up to 16% about 8 months ago at 220ish, but I was eating way too many carbs, like 700 grams daily. Now I am 218ish 11-12%. I got back down to 12%, but weight was down to 209.
Admittedly, I started my first aas cycle too early. Had I known what I do now, I would have waited another year atleast. it was a bad mistake and lack of judgement on my part. live and learn.
gonna go with anadrol 50mg and test E 250/E5D in a couple weeks. I'll be close to 240 on cycle, and when the water drops, I'd be happy to be close to 225-227 at 10-12% BF. That isn't lanky at all
Hey bro, welcome back
Hope you're kid's doin well
Primo may generate "cleaner" gains and you may be able to keep more after PCT, but the gains to begin with are not as prominent as test, and again all the convenience and price points that I have
thats just great, good for you
LiquidPhire
New member
Test as a first cycle is what I did and I do not agree with it being a problem for a first cycle. Suppression happens yes- but with proper PCT a healthy body should come back to normal functioning. Nelson always causin' shit 
bsdgeek
New member
what up my nicca! good ole errn247/sugar tits/pat mccrotch or whoever you are this month! how you been man? a baby? WTF? you sound like you're trying to be a family man or something. pm a brotha when you can breath.
bigmusclehead
New member
primo is a first class drug for women only.imo.its 1..to dam expensive and 2 ya get very little gains fron it.. anyone remember satch boogie?//?he took 1000mg of primo a week and didnt look that great compared to the guys on test cycles.
lol satchboogie...im sure hes still floating around here with a new user id
ryno9000
New member
Pretty sure he is floating around somewhere in a correctional facility.
Using a tool as an example of a steroids effectiveness is a weak argument. Primo works great for people who know how to train and eat.
man you are grumpy lately...
Because I think some scammer who came off as an expert isn't a good example?
Sorry if I offended you by saying you actually have to work out to make gains.
i wasnt talking about satch...lol..see...roid rage nelson...j/k relax
bigmusclehead
New member
did he just call me a tool lol
lolol
OneBreath
Elite Mentor
Nelson,
In your "Everyone Here SUCKS!!!" thread, you made some interesting points:
"STEROIDS ARE GROWTH DRUGS. People have got to stop this Lean bulking bullshit. I would love to erase the word CUTTER from the message boards. Why? Because it's a fallacy and a waste of gear."
"I'd say except in the case of maybe one or two members (that means the other TWO THOUSAND of you)...STOP WASTING MONEY ON GEAR THAT IS NOT BEING PROPERLY UTILIZED!"
While your arguments in this case had more to do with diet and training while on steroids, the post definitely had a certain aroma of BULK to it.
I'm curious as to what is your favorite bulking compound or combo? Would you leave test out? Even if you're a noob that has the spirit of your previous post and wants to get HOOOOGE!!
Thanks.
In your "Everyone Here SUCKS!!!" thread, you made some interesting points:
"STEROIDS ARE GROWTH DRUGS. People have got to stop this Lean bulking bullshit. I would love to erase the word CUTTER from the message boards. Why? Because it's a fallacy and a waste of gear."
"I'd say except in the case of maybe one or two members (that means the other TWO THOUSAND of you)...STOP WASTING MONEY ON GEAR THAT IS NOT BEING PROPERLY UTILIZED!"
While your arguments in this case had more to do with diet and training while on steroids, the post definitely had a certain aroma of BULK to it.
I'm curious as to what is your favorite bulking compound or combo? Would you leave test out? Even if you're a noob that has the spirit of your previous post and wants to get HOOOOGE!!
Thanks.
Cardinal Slin
New member
LMFAO
This whole thread is filled with flaws, except for those posts who give solid, strong, rational argument to prove the opposite of the original post.
Khemix, traz, timtim and many others have helped conclude this is not one of Nelson's best/ most accurate posts.
Nuff Said.
I think the "type" of gear is inconsequnetial in terms of bulking. What most people see as "bulking" is water retention. ALL steroids grow muscle. Size is determined by calories. Since ALL steroids require protein, it really comes down more to diet than anything else.
Take 200 mgs of test and add an extra 1000 calories each day and you'll grow more than if you take 400 mgs of test and eat the same.
Thinking one steroid cuts and any other bulks is, for the most part, the smallest art of the equation when so many make it the biggest.
OneBreath
Elite Mentor
I definitely get this, but aren't some better at food partitioning than others? For instance:
Take 50mg anavar ED + extra 1000 calories
would not equal
Take 50mg tren A ED + extra 1000 calories
I think you know what i mean. In essence, 1000 extra calories would get utilized better on one compound vs another.
That said, when building muscle is the goal, would test not beat out primo/var/etc, the compounds in your original post and thus it would be ok to recommend test to a noob provided he's got his diet in order?
Thanks.
I typically really appreciate the variety that Nelly gives us here, though sometimes he can be a bit off base.
Its been a baseline fact around elite, even before Nelson was around, that a simple test cycle is more than enough for a firstie. Keep it simple, remember?? Instead, noobs that dont take the time to read through all 15 pages of this thread and cypher out the good posts from the bad, they're the ones that this effects the most. Now they think that test is too strong and aromatizes too much and that you need to use something like primo and anavar on your first cycle, just cause Nelson suggested it. All instead of a simple test & dbol cycle thats been tried and true for the past 20 years.
Nelson is a fantastic guy and an amazing contributor here, but its threads like these that I feel are more detrimental than contructive.
And thanks guys, to those who said nice things to say about me
Chris
Its been a baseline fact around elite, even before Nelson was around, that a simple test cycle is more than enough for a firstie. Keep it simple, remember?? Instead, noobs that dont take the time to read through all 15 pages of this thread and cypher out the good posts from the bad, they're the ones that this effects the most. Now they think that test is too strong and aromatizes too much and that you need to use something like primo and anavar on your first cycle, just cause Nelson suggested it. All instead of a simple test & dbol cycle thats been tried and true for the past 20 years.
Nelson is a fantastic guy and an amazing contributor here, but its threads like these that I feel are more detrimental than contructive.
And thanks guys, to those who said nice things to say about me
Chris
im taking TEST AND DBOL FIRST CYCLE...and I'm in love
I typically really appreciate the variety that Nelly gives us here, though sometimes he can be a bit off base.
Its been a baseline fact around elite, even before Nelson was around, that a simple test cycle is more than enough for a firstie. Keep it simple, remember?? Instead, noobs that dont take the time to read through all 15 pages of this thread and cypher out the good posts from the bad, they're the ones that this effects the most. Now they think that test is too strong and aromatizes too much and that you need to use something like primo and anavar on your first cycle, just cause Nelson suggested it. All instead of a simple test & dbol cycle thats been tried and true for the past 20 years.
Nelson is a fantastic guy and an amazing contributor here, but its threads like these that I feel are more detrimental than contructive.
And thanks guys, to those who said nice things to say about me
Chris
Thanks, but I'm not sure how recomending Primo over testosterone is detrimental.
I've also said many times, use ONE compound for a first cycle.
EVerything is tried and true if it's real. Funny, a year ago, dbol would be shunned as a first cycle choice, now it's recommended.
dbol was used by itself so many times in the old school days, and those guys were Jizzacked!
People saying oral onlys suck is lame.
The detrimental part is not that you suggest primo over test. Its this entire thread. There have been many more viable and reasonable posts against your original but do you really think a noob is willing to look through 15 pages to get the truth?
The approach you took is what is detrimental. It looks like the point of this entire thread is MODERATION and safety, especially on the first cycle, which i agree with 1000%. But the noob leaves this thread with the impression that test should't be used on a first cycle. I know alot more bros that have ran test for their first cycles and had absolutely no problems than i do that have ran primo. A LOT. Tried and true.
And as far as testing the waters...why wouldn't you test the waters with a hormone that your body already has? Rather than something its never even seen before?
And if you can find me these posts by credible bros that shun dbol & test as a first cycle, please show me.
(PS. I wouldn't suggest oral only cycles ever. Gains aren't as keepable and they're quite a bit harder on the body)
Desired end result and fear of adverse reaction. I personally cant name one single person that has had a majorly diverse reaction to 300mg of test.
I wouldn't say dangerous...but they can give very similar side effects, with much less of a result. This includes bloat (water retention), elevated liver values, mild acne and sometimes gyno.
I typically really appreciate the variety that Nelly gives us here, though sometimes he can be a bit off base.
Its been a baseline fact around elite, even before Nelson was around, that a simple test cycle is more than enough for a firstie. Keep it simple, remember?? Instead, noobs that dont take the time to read through all 15 pages of this thread and cypher out the good posts from the bad, they're the ones that this effects the most. Now they think that test is too strong and aromatizes too much and that you need to use something like primo and anavar on your first cycle, just cause Nelson suggested it. All instead of a simple test & dbol cycle thats been tried and true for the past 20 years.
Nelson is a fantastic guy and an amazing contributor here, but its threads like these that I feel are more detrimental than contructive.
And thanks guys, to those who said nice things to say about me
Chris
Good post Chris!
kemix: I don;t see how Primo causes more problems than test. I think we just disagree on this. Sure, lots of guys have used test and it works fine, of course. But I see more and more guys shut down in their 30's. It's impossible to gauge but i think it's the higher test dosages.
One breath. Tren is a separate animal. Mg per mg, stronger than anything else and with a host of sides. Other than that, no, I don't see one steroid being that much better for bulking. Incidentally, Tren also burns fat better than any other steroid.
At any rate, we're back to splitting hairs. I guess my point is, WHY is test a BEST first cycle? There's no rhyme or reason for it and I haven;t really head one on this thread. For that matter, you can recommend ANYTHING. As long as the dose is reasonable.
And lots of guys do fine with dbol only. Like this guy: YouTube - Danny Padilla
It ain't the TYPE of drugs guys. it's the training and the diet and the genetics. ALL steroids work. Some suppress more than others. If you do anything long enough, it all tuns out the same. Beginners should go light.
One breath. Tren is a separate animal. Mg per mg, stronger than anything else and with a host of sides. Other than that, no, I don't see one steroid being that much better for bulking. Incidentally, Tren also burns fat better than any other steroid.
At any rate, we're back to splitting hairs. I guess my point is, WHY is test a BEST first cycle? There's no rhyme or reason for it and I haven;t really head one on this thread. For that matter, you can recommend ANYTHING. As long as the dose is reasonable.
And lots of guys do fine with dbol only. Like this guy: YouTube - Danny Padilla
It ain't the TYPE of drugs guys. it's the training and the diet and the genetics. ALL steroids work. Some suppress more than others. If you do anything long enough, it all tuns out the same. Beginners should go light.
why ? there is nothing wrong with debate .. as long as its done in a civilized manner ..good thread nelson ..although some of it goes against what i believe .. u make some interesting points !
Its got nothing to do with debate. The debate was 14 pages ago.
The point of this thread was clarified and Nelson ended with some of the most solid fucking advice in this thread. I couldn't think of any better ending note.
Thanks.
You are right this is an "unpopular stance."
From my experience Tren Ace at 100mg eod is more supressive to sex drive than anything else (I've never done Deca). Test gives massive erections on cue but when the high levels are gone you suffer with lack of sex drive the same way you do with high doses of Tren Ace / Prolactin.
From my experience w/100mg Tren Ace eod and 650 mg Test Enan/week testing the results were:
Prolactin 0
Test Levels >- (0)?
My test levels were "less than zero" while prolactin was proven to be zero. A less than zero may be an erorr??
This test was taken 5 weeks post cycle after full PCT.
My conclusion: testosterone depression can be severe and
Trenbolone doesn't always increase prolactin levels.
rudy76
Live Large
when i did tren ace 125 eod my sex drive was thru the roof...insane how bad it was..
fitzchivalry
New member
I've been researching my first cycle (if I choose to do one) for about a year and for the longest time heard "test only" every time. I was always planning on going low dose (250 mg) but more and more that I've looked into it and talked to those who have been around for awhile/older guys in good health and shape they steer you away from test. It appears to usually be the younger/more recent users that push it mostly. I know of one older/shredded guy who does low doses of d-bol (5 mg, never more than 10 mg) for 3 weeks on and 1 off for years. It seems that all of the healthier/in-shape looking guys, even today they are in shape (Zane, Scott, Nubret, etc.) generally avoided test. I'm now leaning towards Primo as a first cycle with maybe turanabol or a very low dose of d-bol (5 or 10 mg). One guy that goes to the gym I work at tells me that there is no way I should use test at my age (23) and that EQ, etc. would be a much better option.
how'd you get yourself bombed and in negative karma?
I'd be happy to be close to 225-227 at 10-12% BF. That isn't lanky at all
wait till you get there. You'll still feel that you look "lanky" and then you'll want to get to 240, and you'll think that will be the golden number...but it won't be either.
It never ends.
needtogetaas
New member
I used to think 225-230 would look huge! Bah, I still look skinny (to me).
arabian and 1500 had a problem with mwe cause there TOP DOGS of e.f!!!
Hmm...
6'2" and 227 pounds today. 3.068 lbs. per inch (of height).
Want to hit 4 lbs/inch in the next 3-4 years (about 300 lbs). Gotta eat!
2.941 lbs/inch. Not bad bro. Your weight looks good on you. You look pretty thick.
Thank you
My goal is 225 lbs.
Yo bro, didn't you say you suffer from sleep apnea? Being 225 may make it rough on you.
Additional weight exasperates apnea -- even if it's muscle.
"exacerbates" - and yes it does. Alcatraz, I didn't think you had sleep apnea, I just thought you had insomnia. Do you snore? Does your wife say you sometimes stop breathing at night? Does she say you sound like you are choking or gasping in your sleep?
I snore, but so far my wife hasn't said I stop breathing or am gasping/choking. I did a home sleep study recently (last weekend), and am still waiting to hear back on the results. I have no problems falling asleep, but I will get uncomfortable. The only position I can really lay in is on my back. I try to move to my side, but my shoulder(s) hurt and arm(s) fall asleep from the weight on them).
I kno that I am at risk for OSA due to my weight and especially my neck size (20 inches), but I am hoping I do not have it yet.
This reminds me of an article I read by Chad Aichs. I think I shall post it on EF.
IMO - testosterone is the safest and most versatile drug. It provides the full gamut of hormonal activity, and also happens to be one of the most efficient drugs for producing muscle and strength gains.
I would not place higher value on the level of suppression, which is very consistently reversible and likely little different between analogs in the grande scheme of things, than I would on cholesterol interference (which testosterone appears to be the mildest), libido (which testosterone supports), or hepatic strain (testosterone has none).
I can never recommend anyone take steroids, but if I had one bit of advice to anyone choosing to do so, it would be to look at testosterone first, last, and exclusively if you can.
I would not place higher value on the level of suppression, which is very consistently reversible and likely little different between analogs in the grande scheme of things, than I would on cholesterol interference (which testosterone appears to be the mildest), libido (which testosterone supports), or hepatic strain (testosterone has none).
I can never recommend anyone take steroids, but if I had one bit of advice to anyone choosing to do so, it would be to look at testosterone first, last, and exclusively if you can.
Bill, you are the MAN.
That's what I've been saying since the start of this thread.
Test IS the best recommendation for a first cycle.
Bill, you are the MAN.
That's what I've been saying since the start of this thread.
Test IS the best recommendation for a first cycle.
Hearing what you want to hear isn't evidence! LOL!
And thanks for the spelling correction. I must have had "aspirating" on my mind. : )
My mistake -- I think it's needto who has apnea.
My wife spent like $1700 on this mattress a year ago (California King). It is the most comfortable bed I've slept on. I can lay on my side (for some reason I always prefer the left side), but not for too long. I will become uncomfortable due to the weight of my body crushing my shoulder and arm.
I've thought about the 100% memory foam mattresses (probably $4000+ for my size bed), but I heard they make you sweat. I have one of the memory foam pillows, but it makes my head/neck sweat unless the room is pretty cool and the ceiling fan is going (oh the wife loves that too - let me tell ya). I can only imagine what the effect would be like over my whole body.
Yeah...the memory foam beds hold/generate heat like a mofo. Which is why I opted for the Sleep Number Bed. It was well worth the money spent. I can sleep on my side all night and never have to switch. They're pretty expensive, but well worth it. I wake up more refreshed, blah blah blah same shit you hear on the commercials, but its true.
.
"There is no softer pillow ..... then a clear conscience."
Maybe there are some unresolved issues that need tending to.
"There is no softer pillow ..... then a clear conscience."
Maybe there are some unresolved issues that need tending to.
.
"There is no softer pillow ..... then a clear conscience."
Maybe there are some unresolved issues that need tending to.
wise words...
needtogetaas
New member
U
UA_Iron
Guest
Test above all else. Nelson has failed to prove otherwise.
RADAR
Well-known member
Thank you Nelson, thank you- it's what i have been preaching all along ,it seems no one listens!
everyone wants a quick fix----well rome wasn't built in a day, and if your diet & training isn't in check ...well.....just take the next train outta here!
RADAR
RADAR
Well-known member
I Am one of those guys, i met Dave Draper Mr Universe and his favorite cycle back then was Dbol, and Arnold ate those things for breakfast.
We didn't have internet back then so we went with what everyone else was doing.
RADAR
No one has proved anything. It's an intellectual argument and all anyone can do is present a logical point. If you have one to add, please do so.
lol...
Im gonna say 99% of the time a test only cycle is the only option for many newbies because its the easiest thing for them to get at the gym. I cant count the times someone has come to me and told me they were doing a 10 week cycle of test enanthate at 200mgs a week. Gee, bottle is 10 cc's and dose is 200mgs/cc. Wonder where they got the idea to do that?
Its just the easiest thing for them to do and there probably pretty overwhelmed with taking the plunge, with all the media makes it out to be.
Best thing is to just offer some decent advice.
I saw a guy get torn up and preached too a week or so ago because he had some gyno flaring up. Rather than help the guy with what to do, members spent more time ripping him up for not having taken letrozole and all these other compounds that no one here would have ever thought to do themselves unless they had already spent a year on the boards.
I can hear what Hayez is saying all the way.
I kinda miss the days of UltraGainz posting up all those sick twisted cycles. Not that it was a better time. More responsible now, but sometimes the point gets missed. Help members. Dont preach to them.
Its just the easiest thing for them to do and there probably pretty overwhelmed with taking the plunge, with all the media makes it out to be.
Best thing is to just offer some decent advice.
I saw a guy get torn up and preached too a week or so ago because he had some gyno flaring up. Rather than help the guy with what to do, members spent more time ripping him up for not having taken letrozole and all these other compounds that no one here would have ever thought to do themselves unless they had already spent a year on the boards.
I can hear what Hayez is saying all the way.
I kinda miss the days of UltraGainz posting up all those sick twisted cycles. Not that it was a better time. More responsible now, but sometimes the point gets missed. Help members. Dont preach to them.
I don't really get your point bro. Who's preaching? Who isn't helping?
Is posting sick cycles helping? I think a lot of that old EF advice was fucking HORRIBLE.
Nobody here is getting on anyone for doing anything dumb.
I think saving T for future cycles is good advice. Saying that it's good because it's easy to get and the media has them confused may be true but it doesn;t offer helpful advice IMO. I figured we're here to show a better way and that's what the discussion has been about.
I didnt bother to read the first 18 pages of this thead. Wasnt speaking of you in particular as far as preaching goes. But now that I read the thread title again I would say you do fall into that boat.
I agreed that the old EF wasnt necessarily better, not as bad as its made out tho. And people do get on people for doing dumb things here. Read some of the threads for when I guy says hes getting a tender nipple and doesnt have nolvadex on hand and didnt run arimidex?
And you opinion to not run test for a first cycle is just that. An opinion. Just like its my opinion its a great first cycle at 250mgs a week.
If your saying test should be saved for future cycles thats telling me cause its a great steroid and the others are inferior. Just my opinion tho.
I didnt bother to read the first 18 pages of this thead. Wasnt speaking of you in particular as far as preaching goes. But now that I read the thread title again I would say you do fall into that boat.
I agreed that the old EF wasnt necessarily better, not as bad as its made out tho. And people do get on people for doing dumb things here. Read some of the threads for when I guy says hes getting a tender nipple and doesnt have nolvadex on hand and didnt run arimidex?
And you opinion to not run test for a first cycle is just that. An opinion. Just like its my opinion its a great first cycle at 250mgs a week.
If your saying test should be saved for future cycles thats telling me cause its a great steroid and the others are inferior. Just my opinion tho.
Well, advice is just another word for an opinion.
needtogetaas
New member
I feel you on this last part galaxy. Most people know I have always been about this
Lets not forget nelson makes some good threads like this. I mean look at all the people jumping in the thread. He knows what he is doing when he makes the thread. See all the posts (that's the outcome he was looking for)..
walliwalibus
New member
Damn, I have been lacking in the reading department. Sorry. Damn, Now I must read this whole thread.
I feel you on this last part galaxy. Most people know I have always been about this
Lets not forget nelson makes some good threads like this. I mean look at all the people jumping in the thread. He knows what he is doing when he makes the thread. See all the posts (that's the outcome he was looking for)..
Oh, I enjoy his threads. They always invoke actual thought and I can appreciate that. He uses smaller doses, likes shorter cycles. I like higher doses and longer cycles. He likes looking fit and I like having 3 times his muscle mass while still being aesthetically pleasing.
needtogetaas
New member
Oh, I enjoy his threads. They always invoke actual thought and I can appreciate that. He uses smaller doses, likes shorter cycles. I like higher doses and longer cycles. He likes looking fit and I like having 3 times his muscle mass while still being aesthetically pleasing.
AAAAHHHH I love you to galaxy. Ya big lug.
walliwalibus
New member
But it confuses me. All I got out of this thread is that different people have different opinions. In which, as one poster posted, confuses people on where to start. I thought that is why we are here. I know I came here to get help, but everyone thinks they are right. So who and what does one believe? Or should I say who does one believe? I believe myself that the keeping it simple stupid method is probably the best for a first cycle. Why, because understanding what one is doing to their body would be easier. After you understand and try, ah you can take another step.
Basically it is taking steps. But understanding and learning what you are doing is most important. Which comes from good advise. I feel this thread as many others confuses the new guy or whatever and they believe the first thing they read. That is just human nature..
Basically it is taking steps. But understanding and learning what you are doing is most important. Which comes from good advise. I feel this thread as many others confuses the new guy or whatever and they believe the first thing they read. That is just human nature..
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