Stop Recommending Testosterone To Newbies!

[Nelson Montana]

Yes. I know this is an unpopular stance but I maintain that a test only cycle is the WORST thing someone can do for a first cycle.

The reason is that test is what our body makes. It doesn't ake Primo or tren or deca. Give it test and it;'ll make less. People thinkother compounds are more suppressive. NOTHING is more suppressive than test! There are , however, things that will kill libido.

Tren and Deca raise prolactin and progesterone. That's the killer. They don't shut down the HPTA more than test.

And even dumber is when people suggest using test along with these compounds as some sort of responsible remedy. IT"S JUST ANOTHER SUPPRESSIVE COMPOUND!!! It will mask the problems but it still supresses.

I still think the best first cycle is a short low dose one -- to test the waters. I rmember when doing a couple of dbol was a major thrill. And we got results! Today, that isn;t enough , even if you're 150 pounds and haven't begun to tap your full potential.

Start slow. Use Primo or var or a little dbol. You can always add more and more test as you go along.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

Nelson, have you any studies that claim that steroid x shuts down HPTA more than steroid y?

Alternatively some studies that show raising natural test levels is easier if using deca than test?

Thanks

 

[goin on 4T]

Good post Nelson I never really thought about it like that. I am just amazed at all of the info the younger group has available to them and how they neglectfully don't spend the time to read what is out there first! They just post and take whatever answer they get as gosphel with out any intellectual ability to ask further questions.

 

[Big A]

i guess when i see it like that i can agree, i think its just that peolpe want (expect) dramatic gains with their first cycle and test will usually do that. While the gains off of d-bol arent nearly as much they are still great for someone beggining to turn to the dark side, my first cycle was d-bol and i was happy with but it wasnt till used test when i was like holy shit.

 

[miplank]

Nelson...


Care to go into more detail for a first time AAS user? Like how much anavar, or dianabol, or primo would you run for your first cycle...and for how long?

 

[needtogetaas]

meh

 

[timtim]

so now test is the most suppressive aas out there?

studies to back this up? or is this opinion?

 

[needtogetaas]

More or less its just easy to use test. Sides are easy to handle, recovery is smooth most of the time. I guess the same can be said for primo,var. Dbol not so much.

I am against the (oral only sucks or is a waist) shit though. No part of that can be proved.

 

[Greatercow]

why not ? why would takin other steroids such as var which will fck with your lipid or dbol which will for some people just bloat them up is more beneficial than running a low dose of test done with a proper pct ? i think starting with test is a good way to start using AAS and learning how your body reacts to the main susbtance plus also learning how to do a proper pct for keepable gains.. i dont see why one would be better the the other..

 

[Nelson Montana]

why not ? why would takin other steroids such as var which will fck with your lipid or dbol which will for some people just bloat them up is more beneficial than running a low dose of test done with a proper pct ? i think starting with test is a good way to start using AAS and learning how your body reacts to the main susbtance plus also learning how to do a proper pct for keepable gains.. i dont see why one would be better the the other..

Because steroids work in tow ways -- they recirculate nitrogen and they add androgen. The later is more dramatic but more suppressive. Test is pure androgen. Greater nitrogen retention WITHOUT androgenic influx will still produce gains. In many ways, the perfect steroid wouldn't affect HPTA at all. Primo comes the closest to this. It's actually the impetus behind dianabol.

Going with test is simple and cheap but it is not the best choice in regard to maintaining a working HPTA. If you don't care about that and expect to be on HRT at age 30, it doesn't matter.

 

[Greatercow]

ah i get your point but i think it depends on the individual nelson

lets say soomeone starts using aas at age 24 and does one cycle a year average 12-15 weeks i dont think he will end up on HRT at age 30 now on the contrary someone going on for six months at a time doing 750 mg/week might end up in this situation but id be more afraid of a liver failure than going on hrt

 

[lilj888]

Yes. I know this is an unpopular stance but I maintain that a test only cycle is the WORST thing someone can do for a first cycle.

The reason is that test is what our body makes. It doesn't ake Primo or tren or deca. Give it test and it;'ll make less. People thinkother compounds are more suppressive. NOTHING is more suppressive than test! There are , however, things that will kill libido.

Tren and Deca raise prolactin and progesterone. That's the killer. They don't shut down the HPTA more than test.

And even dumber is when people suggest using test along with these compounds as some sort of responsible remedy. IT"S JUST ANOTHER SUPPRESSIVE COMPOUND!!! It will mask the problems but it still supresses.

I still think the best first cycle is a short low dose one -- to test the waters. I rmember when doing a couple of dbol was a major thrill. And we got results! Today, that isn;t enough , even if you're 150 pounds and haven't begun to tap your full potential.

Start slow. Use Primo or var or a little dbol. You can always add more and more test as you go along.

i agree with u, not with that its the most suppressive just because i dont know if it is, but with the fact that everyone needs to stop recommending test.

everyone seems to say u cant take this without test. well i took dbol without test and it was the shit, i basically consider it my first cycle because var didnt do shit. now im on test and winny, but i would much rather go back to taking 25mg of dbol.

 

[Greatercow]

hey bro out of curiosity what gains did you get / lose with dbol only cycle ?

 

[*The_West*]

nelson, how do you figure that test is more suppresive than nandrolones?
i would also be interested to read any studies you have on this.

 

[lilj888]

hey bro out of curiosity what gains did you get / lose with dbol only cycle ?

gained 23lbs lost 6lbs so a overall gain of 17lbs plus i started to gain weight again after like 3 weeks after i got off.

 

[*The_West*]

gained 23lbs lost 6lbs so a overall gain of 17lbs plus i started to gain weight again after like 3 weeks after i got off.

thats pretty damn good actually.
what is your height, what body type are you, and what weight and bf% were you before and after the cycle?

 

[lilj888]

im 5'5 weighed 155 was prob like 15%bf, i had stopped working out for like 2 months prior to taking the dbol, i use to be big so i took the dbol to jump start me back into working out. now im like 177 at 12%

 

[*The_West*]

im 5'5 weighed 155 was prob like 15%bf, i had stopped working out for like 2 months prior to taking the dbol, i use to be big so i took the dbol to jump start me back into working out. now im like 177 at 12%

did you lose the bf% while on cycle? i would have thought that you would put a little bit on on dbol. did you use any anti aromatase?

 

[bsdgeek]

Because steroids work in tow ways -- they recirculate nitrogen and they add androgen. The later is more dramatic but more suppressive. Test is pure androgen. Greater nitrogen retention WITHOUT androgenic influx will still produce gains. In many ways, the perfect steroid wouldn't affect HPTA at all. Primo comes the closest to this. It's actually the impetus behind dianabol.

Going with test is simple and cheap but it is not the best choice in regard to maintaining a working HPTA. If you don't care about that and expect to be on HRT at age 30, it doesn't matter.

Yep, test SHUTS you down, no matter how you look at it. and it doesn't matter about whether it's low dose, or high dose, it's still shuts you down the same. the only thing that dose is going to affect is sides. good post nelson.

 

[lilj888]

did you lose the bf% while on cycle? i would have thought that you would put a little bit on on dbol. did you use any anti aromatase?

pretty sure i lost some bf on the dbol. very mad i didnt hit my abs as hard as i should on it, because the last week i was on i hit my abs hard, and they started to come through. no anti-e, took nothing on cycle besides dbol. 20mg of nolva for 5 weeks for pct.

 

[Greatercow]

heh your diet mustve been real good + muscle memory i guess

 

[*The_West*]

pretty sure i lost some bf on the dbol. very mad i didnt hit my abs as hard as i should on it, because the last week i was on i hit my abs hard, and they started to come through. no anti-e, took nothing on cycle besides dbol. 20mg of nolva for 5 weeks for pct.

no excessive bloat or itchy nips? sounds like you must be one of the lucky ones not very susceptible to oestrogenic side effects.

 

[lilj888]

no excessive bloat or itchy nips? sounds like you must be one of the lucky ones not very susceptible to oestrogenic side effects.

well i already have gyno from puberty which sucks because it wont go away but didnt get any from dbol. i took 25mg dbol a day, so maybe it was to low of a dose to get any estrogenic sides. I had a little bloat i couldnt really see it, but one of my friends told me i looked bloated, but he always tells me i look bloated.

 

[*The_West*]

well i already have gyno from puberty which sucks because it wont go away. i took 25mg dbol a day, so maybe it was to low of a dose to get any estrogenic sides. I had a little bloat i couldnt really see it, but one of my friends told me i looked bloated, but he always tells me i look bloated.

lol. tell him he looks like a noodlekeg.

 

[HAYEZ]

This topic is lol.....

 

[the_alcatraz]

I disagree Nelson.

I don't think test only cycles are a bad first cycle. I think they are and should be therecommended first cycle. If you are ready for ass, then you should start with test IMO.

 

[Greatercow]

I disagree Nelson.

I don't think test only cycles are a bad first cycle. I think they are and should be therecommended first cycle. If you are ready for ass, then you should start with test IMO.

heh we shall agree amongst canooks

 

[Tatyana]

Nelson, have you any studies that claim that steroid x shuts down HPTA more than steroid y?

Alternatively some studies that show raising natural test levels is easier if using deca than test?

Thanks

C'mon lads, you all must know that there are very few studies about steroids in healthy men, let alone on specific things such as this.

I find this asking for studies quite odd.

75% of the time if someone posts a study, then it is criticised saying it is on rats or the doses were wrong and then people say experience counts for more.

Well, that is what we have here, experience.

To be honest, I think it is great that Nelson is challenging the bodybuilding word of mouth myths that are propagated on the internet.


BTW, Dave Palumbo also recommends primo and or var for a first cycle, no test.

 

[bsdgeek]

c'mon lads, you all must know that there are very few studies about steroids in healthy men, let alone on specific things such as this.

I find this asking for studies quite odd.

75% of the time if someone posts a study, then it is criticised saying it is on rats or the doses were wrong and then people say experience counts for more.

Well, that is what we have here, experience.

To be honest, i think it is great that nelson is challenging the bodybuilding word of mouth myths that are propagated on the internet.


Btw, dave palumbo also recommends primo and or var for a first cycle, no test.

+1

 

[the_alcatraz]

C'mon lads, you all must know that there are very few studies about steroids in healthy men, let alone on specific things such as this.

I find this asking for studies quite odd.

75% of the time if someone posts a study, then it is criticised saying it is on rats or the doses were wrong and then people say experience counts for more.

Well, that is what we have here, experience.

To be honest, I think it is great that Nelson is challenging the bodybuilding word of mouth myths that are propagated on the internet.


BTW, Dave Palumbo also recommends primo and or var for a first cycle, no test.

I agree that controversy on the internet is an important thing and it helps people express their opinions. However, if someone wants to share why another cycle would be a better one than test, I'll expect a detailed explanation.

Why on earth would someone recommend anavar over test as a first cycle?

 

[halfcenturian]

Nelson is either bored, taken too much UNLEASHED,

or is just in the mood to start a food fight.

Why he decides to pull this stuff out of thin air baffles me.

...Back to football.

 

[Tatyana]

I agree that controversy on the internet is an important thing and it helps people express their opinions. However, if someone wants to share why another cycle would be a better one than test, I'll expect a detailed explanation.

Why on earth would someone recommend anavar over test as a first cycle?

Actually, I think they recommend primo more than they recommend test.

In all honesty, if I was a lad doing my first cycle, I would choose primo.

 

[UA_Iron]

Why does it matter what your first cycle is? You'll move onto bigger and better things and be more suppressed than ever - your "first cycle" will have little if any bearing on what you're doing down the road. Just keep HCG around and you'll be fine.

Dont pixy dust yourself with hormones your first cycle, make it worth while (provided you can get away with it in your work or life). Just be prepared for the aftermath of whatever you do and you'll be fine.

Shit, I can say controversial stuff too. What kind of science background does Nelson Montana have? I can come up with theories without much basis as easily as anyone else.

Edit: If one believes your first cycle does hold some kind of magical window for gains then one would think you would go balls to the wall. I am not advocating this belief.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Actually, I think they recommend primo more than they recommend test.

In all honesty, if I was a lad doing my first cycle, I would choose primo.

I like test so much, I believe that any cycle without test is not complete, unless you're doing an orals only cycle.

My first cycle was dbol, only because I was scared shitless to inject. That was a mistake.

Why would you inject primo for your first cycle over test? What is your justification for this Tat?

 

[the_alcatraz]

Let me add that test is a lot more versatile than Primo, a much better bulking agent than Primo, especially for a newbie would has been working out for a long time but wants to start his first cycle with something to give him a growth edge...

Did I mention that Primo is a shitload of money...and not everyone can afford it?

 

[UA_Iron]

Let me add that test is a lot more versatile than Primo, a much better bulking agent than Primo, especially for a newbie would has been working out for a long time but wants to start his first cycle with something to give him a growth edge...

Did I mention that Primo is a shitload of money...and not everyone can afford it?

Not to mention test is much more predictable when it comes to sides. You dont have to take exotic drugs to combat side effects. It works through mechanisms that we understand.

Primo - ton of fakes out there too.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Not to mention test is much more predictable when it comes to sides. You dont have to take exotic drugs to combat side effects. It works through mechanisms that we understand.

Primo - ton of fakes out there too.

very good input bro

Primo is the most fakes steroid i've seen out there...not much diff. between it and masteron to my understanding either...

 

[dabuffguy]

i agree with u, not with that its the most suppressive just because i dont know if it is, but with the fact that everyone needs to stop recommending test.

everyone seems to say u cant take this without test. well i took dbol without test and it was the shit, i basically consider it my first cycle because var didnt do shit. now im on test and winny, but i would much rather go back to taking 25mg of dbol.

The reason var didn't do shit is becaue it was either underdosed or bunk. Contrary to popular belief, var is very strong shit.

Ask layinback. He gets US manufactured legit pharm grade var, and he thinks 20mg pharm grade is stronegr than 60mg of UG stuff.

Dbol is a good first cycle if you ask me.




Test as a first cycle is also good.

Telling people to not take test as a first is strictly preference of Nelson. Yeah, test is suppressive. Guess what? We know, and doing proper PCT is where it's at.

Test will give you the best gains.

Primo is expensive as shit, and coming by good primo is tough, especially for a noob who hasn't been in the game long enough to know better. Even with all the research you can possibly do, inexperience is a set back.

Test is strong, abundant, cheap, low dose gives almost zero sides, and it's easy to control sides because your body already knows how to deal with fluctuating testosterone levels. That's what happens in puberty.

Test is best. Suppressive, not suppressive,or whatnot. Learn to love it.

 

[Tatyana]

very good input bro

Primo is the most fakes steroid i've seen out there...not much diff. between it and masteron to my understanding either...

Primo as there is very little bloat with it from what I have heard. What you gain is what you gain, there will not be the 10 lbs of water weight loss at the end of the cycle.

I think that the gear that you get also depends on the country you are in.

I don't think it is as much of an issue in the UK and Europe as we don't have the same steroid laws or issues with the media.

I could be wrong about this, as I have never tried to buy steroids.

I may ask a few of the lads in the gym.

 

[aquatic_glories]

Aren't you the one who says test production will decrease no matter what after 2-3 cycles??
so????

 

[EPROM]

One Noob's feedback,

The first mistake is to assume that any common noob would take the suggestion of using test as a first cycle without doing further research. For instance, I have been studying everything ALL of you have been saying for quite a while and I STILL can't make up my mind on what to do as a first cycle. You guys are all across the board, ...which in a way is kind of good.

I say that if you have a personal opinion as to what a good first cycle would be, ...then state it! It's up to the noob to do his due diligence in regards to proper research.

There are a LOT of variables that come into play before a noob would run out and grab some test:, (needles, infection, disease, horrible sides, jail, fines, job loss, psycho behavior, bogus AAS, tabs vs injects, stacks, PCT, etc). Any noob that would fire up a test syringe after reading a couple of recommendation posts probably deserves what s/he gets.

BTW: Many of you high-profile posters have stated that you were a "Dumb Noob" on your first cycle, did it all wrong, and wished you could do it again. Who is to say that another Noob can't do it the same way and later end up as another high-profile poster just like you?

Birdman

 

[Roc86]

I agree. Personally id recomend using a non aromaizable compound first such as winstrol, anavar, or tbol --> Why?

#1- these are not as suppressive because they are DHT derrivatives and when your off your body doesnt have a fuckload of estrogen in it. Research on anavar indicated that either 6 week (or 3 months, cannot remember) @ 20 mgs a day definitley suppressed you ... but within days levels of LH, FSH, and Test had returned to normal or exceeded original baselines.

#2- strength gain, without massive size gains = more discrete with regards to freinds, family, and others. Also, the DHT compounds strngth increases tend to be more permanent than estrogen assisted strength gains.

#3- less chance for sides obvious sides such as ance, gyno, testicular atrophy etc.

After a moderate 6 weeker or two, the person should know whether AAS is or isnt for them.

 

[HAYEZ]

this thread really is just non sense...why be on a steroid board saying dont use testosterone...this is just retarded...im sorry but are you guys serious?


eprom fuck off!!!!lolololol

 

[EPROM]

...why be on a steroid board saying dont use testosterone...this is just retarted

...I know that "Test-E Retard" is made by Balkan Pharmaceuticals, but I'm sure there are other brands available

Birdman

 

[Zeeoneandonly]

Well first off, you shouldnt recommend steroids to a newbie at all so there ya go!

But people will take steroids of their free choice. The first cycle, meh! And I generaly dont take supplement vendors advice whatsoever and still wont, just usually a way to steer newbs to their placebenol/sucrabanol products.
I gained 30 lbs of lean muscle mass on winstrol of all things. I went from 230 powerlifter after high school and was in a lowfat diet phase and training to be a triathlete. Ended up a scrawny 6'5' 175 lb guy.
Got some winnie from mexico back in the day that you could and in 2 1/2 months was 205 completely ripped like cover of a magazine.

That has long past. The newbie needs simplicity and I have used dbol, test, var, primo. Hell, I had duffle bags of shit that I used and sold back in the day. The KISS principle applies here. Keep it Simple STUPID!
A dozen preloads is what a newbie needs. Not spun up with this stuff.
Yes, if someone was smart, they wouldnt do it at all, if they did do it, theyd start with something mild like var or primo. But, HELLO, we live in the real world dont we. At least most of us do with no access to a steroid guru who spoonfeeds them anavar.
A young man can handle a test cycle and i have done many and kept the gains with no PCT. I think PCT is also a bit overrated. Just take the hit and keeping working out and eating right. I never lost much post cycle with or without PCT.

If I was mentoring a newb, hell, I'd choose fina. No bloat and good gains and tremendous fat loss. Best yet, it is easy as shit to make and can get it legally and not have to worry about a controlled delivery. Another variable missing from this fine equation. And of course, still wondering what in place of test he recommends. Perhaps one of his legal products he sells himself instead lol

 

[HAYEZ]

...I know that "Test-E Retard" is made by Balkan Pharmaceuticals, but I'm sure there are other brands available

Birdman

dick....lolol

 

[the_alcatraz]

Hayez and Birdman, play nice...

Nelson is a respectable member and he's a smart and good bro...please be respectful

 

[HAYEZ]

Hayez and Birdman, play nice...

Nelson is a respectable member and he's a smart and good bro...please be respectful

its all in fun bro no worries...
nelson def adds to the site...just this topic is out there...

 

[mr.nitro]

this is the stupidest thing ive read in a long time. thank you nelson.

I think ill stick with my testosterone.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Quick points.

# 1: The fact that primo is expensive is irrelevant to the topic.

#2:The fact that it's faked has nothing to do with the original point.

#3: I'm not hearing any arguments as to what I'm saying is wrong other than some people like test and want to use it.

Not everyone wants AAS to be a lifetime thing. Some guys do a few cycles and that's it. If you want to have a functional HPTA, then you should go as easy as possible on it. A first cycle can be very successful without bashing the HPTA, so why do it? That's my point. You can always go stronger. That will lead to more growth. The more you take early on will determine you needing more later on.

And Tat is 100% correct. NOBODY has studies as to how one steroid is different than another and there are millions of variables that can be argued infinitum anyway. Show me the study that says Var doesn't aromatize. We all know it doesn't. But where's the proof? Some things are just common sense based on the information that exists.

And yes, we need to look at things differently instead of parroting what the popular message board fashion is. If someone thinks they can come up with interesting theories based on a cogent argument then please, post it up. That's the stuff that I find intriguing. But it's not as easy as you may think.

 

[the_alcatraz]

Quick points.

# 1: The fact that primo is expensive is irrelevant to the topic.

#2:The fact that it's faked has nothing to do with the original point.

#3: I'm not hearing any arguments as to what I'm saying is wrong other than some people like test and want to use it.

Not everyone wants AAS to be a lifetime thing. Some guys do a few cycles and that's it. If you want to have a functional HPTA, then you should go as easy as possible on it. A first cycle can be very successful without bashing the HPTA, so why do it? That's my point. You can always go stronger. That will lead to more growth. The more you take early on will determine you needing more later on.

And Tat is 100% correct. NOBODY has studies as to how one steroid is different than another and there are millions of variables that can be argued infinitum anyway. Show me the study that says Var doesn't aromatize. We all know it doesn't. But where's the proof? Some things are just common sense based on the information that exists.

And yes, we need to look at things differently instead of parroting what the popular message board fashion is. If someone thinks they can come up with interesting theories based on a cogent argument then please, post it up. That's the stuff that I find intriguing. But it's not as easy as you may think.

The first two points have EVERYTHING to do with the topic bro.

#1 - How many people can afford or are willing to pay that much for their first cycle?

#2 - How well can n00bs tell fake aas from the real deal. Primo being the most faked steroids raises the chances of noobs having a really shity first cycle as a result of bad gear.

As for the rest of your points:

How do you compare the versatility of primo with how you can add test to pretty much everything and anything?

Test gives you size, strength, vascularity, feelings of well being. How well does Primo compare to that.

Usually first cycles are for growth. How well does Primo compare to test if you want a bulking cycle?

Do you think Primo will give anywhere near the gains test will give as a first cycle?

Don't you think Primo is a little overrated, when compared to Masteron, which is pretty close to it?

A lot of people desire "aggression' in their workouts. How does primo compare to test in terms of raising one's aggression?

Test gives you a healthy appetite. Does Primo do that as well, and to what degree?

 

[the_alcatraz]

One more thing. You can run test for a year without coming off.

How long can you run Primo?

 

[Mr. dB]

One more thing. You can run test for a year without coming off.

How long can you run Primo?

...or dbol???

 

[Nelson Montana]

The first two points have EVERYTHING to do with the topic bro.

#1 - How many people can afford or are willing to pay that much for their first cycle?

..............

PRICE HAS NOTHING TO WITH SUPPRESSION.


....................................
#2 - How well can n00bs tell fake aas from the real deal. Primo being the most faked steroids raises the chances of noobs having a really shity first cycle as a result of bad gear.

............................................

NO ONE CAN TELL FAKES. THE FIRST GEAR I EVER BOUGHT WAS FAKE. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPPRESSION.

.................................

As for the rest of your points:


.................................................

How do you compare the versatility of primo with how you can add test to pretty much everything and anything?

.........................

YOU CAN ADD PRIMO TO ANYTHING.


...............................................

Test gives you size, strength, vascularity, feelings of well being. How well does Primo compare to that.

..................................


I DIDN'T SAY TEST WASN'T EFFECTIVE. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPRESSPION.


...................

Usually first cycles are for growth. How well does Primo compare to test if you want a bulking cycle?

.......................

EAT AND YOU WILL GROW.


.............................

Do you think Primo will give anywhere near the gains test will give as a first cycle?

..............................

YES,


........................

Don't you think Primo is a little overrated, when compared to Masteron, which is pretty close to it?

.....................

MAST IS A CROSS BETWEEN PRIMO AND PROVIRON.


...........................

A lot of people desire "aggression' in their workouts. How does primo compare to test in terms of raising one's aggression?

..........................

IT DOESN;T . THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPPRESSION.


...................................

Test gives you a healthy appetite. Does Primo do that as well, and to what degree?

............................

YES. BUT ONE THING IS TRUE. YOU CAN;T GO ON PRIMO ALL YEAR OR YOU'LL BE SUPPRESSED WITHOUT ANYTHING REPLACING NATURAL TEST. BUT THAT TOO IS A SEPARATE SUBJECT.

..

 

[the_alcatraz]

...or dbol???

Exactly.

Test is pretty much the only thing you can run that long, and it's the most versatile aas out there.

 

[dabuffguy]

Neson, you roriginal post was "Stop teling newbs to use test for a first cycle." and your reaon was supression.


Well, besides suppression, which is a major negative, test holds every other reason to use as a first besides having to man up and use a needle for the first time.

So, the pro's, IMO, far out weigh the cons even though it's a big con. The con is you are more suppressed. We accept the fact that we have to do PCT, regrdless of what compound used, so what is the major difference when it's all said and done?

 

[the_alcatraz]

..

Bro, no offense but you pretty much didn't answer any of my questions.

Your original post was about not giving advice to noobs to take test as their first cycle and NOT about supression. Yuo have not proved why test shouldnt be the first cycle in any way.

Answering with a "yes" to my questions without any real evidence or at least annecdotal (sp?) evidence is really not that effective in getting an idea through to me.

Plus, masteron is NOT primo and proviron. Proviron is pretty damn close to being an oral masteron by itself.

You can't just say 'eat and you will grow" or we wouldnt be having this discussion about steroids in the first place.

All my points have nothing to do with supression because this thread has nothing to do with supression. It has to do with the fact that you are saying not to give noobs advice to take test when that is the best advice you can give and you simply have nothing to backup that claim with.

I am not saying any of the above to offend you bro, I know you are very knowledgeable and probably know more about aas than I do, but your above claim is pretty much something that cannot be backed up.

 

[sweed]

I forgot the post I was discussing with you about the first cycle Nelson which you never got to ( or I never saw, sorry!). But I was challenging your scope of a different compound other than test for a first cycle.
Yes you will grow with anything. But with test you will grow more and, isn't the point of pct to help bring the levels back in place. we were never born to grow and develop this much. But some of us just want to be that way. not normal and to train to be much better than the average fat/ unhealthy amerian/ person. Test did a great job for my first cycle 3.5 years ago. and it will be my choice for my next cycle. low(er) dose test only. BAM! haha
Sorry I didn't read every post.

 

[Tatyana]

this thread really is just non sense...why be on a steroid board saying dont use testosterone...this is just retarded...im sorry but are you guys serious?

this is the stupidest thing ive read in a long time. thank you nelson.

I think ill stick with my testosterone.

This is in reference to a first cycle for a newbie chaps.

It is not 'don't use test ever'.


Most of you have already stuck a needle in your ass.

If you could re-do your first cycle, what WOULD you do?

Constructive criticism and opinions please.

Ta

 

[the_alcatraz]

This is in reference to a first cycle for a newbie chaps.

It is not 'don't use test ever'.


Most of you have already stuck a needle in your ass.

If you could re-do your first cycle, what WOULD you do?

Constructive criticism and opinions please.

Ta

Good morning Tat

 

[J. Adams]

One of the safest cycles for beginners is a simple 250-500mg test/week cycle. You can easily control the sides with an AI, and it will make you feel great (Also give you fairly decent KEEPABLE gains). A test only cycle is also quite cheap. Even when adding an AI you really get good bang for your buck. Not so with Primo. You need about 400mg/week of Primo for any real noticeable gains, and that will most definatley hurt your wallet. (Primo amps will run you $15-20/amp, and thats assuming they are not fakes. Primo as has been explained to you is one of the most faked AAS out there)

It's irrational to suggest that Primo is better than test for a beginner due to the aforementioned points.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

I may have missed it but I do not believe you answer this question.

Nelson, have you any studies that claim that steroid x shuts down HPTA more than steroid y?

Alternatively some studies that show raising natural test levels is easier if using deca than test?

Thanks

 

[EPROM]

I am a "Noob" who potentially considers Test as a first cycle. ...I guess I don't understand this debate?

If test WILL WORK as a good first cycle, then why shouldn't it be suggested? As far as I understand, ALL of these AAS/Prohormone/Designer add-ons are potentially dangerous if improperly administered. If one is less "dangerous" or easier to use than another, then say so ...but that doesn't mean a more sophisticated Noob wouldn't rather take the more difficult (or dangerous) route. As long as the info is available, then let the Noob make the call.

The WORST thing would be to suppress the information and have some poor Noob operating on outdated or misguided information.

MY question:

I have read up on these legal-to-purchase designer solutions (i.e., Monsterdrol, Havoc, Cyclotren, etc.). Why isn't there more recommendations for a Noob to go down this road as a first cycle as opposed to diving right into syringes, grapefruit-sized prostates and visits from your friendly neighborhood customs agents?

Wouldn't designer gear be a good suggestion for a well choreographed street-legal first cycle? If the Noob gets good results, then maybe they can move on up to the next levels.

Birdman

 

[Cardinal Slin]

Yes. I know this is an unpopular stance but I maintain that a test only cycle is the WORST thing someone can do for a first cycle.

Now that I have some time, I will reply to this post.

Test, the WORST someone can do for a first cycle?
Was it the cheat day yesterday and did you take more than food?

The reason is that test is what our body makes. It doesn't ake Primo or tren or deca. Give it test and it;'ll make less.

So if we give our body deca, it continues pumping out test and we do not need to do any PCT because that's exactly what 'your' quote above implies.

And wouldn't it be better to give your body something it knows/is used to and makes rather than putting something inside that no one will know the exact reaction to?

People thinkother compounds are more suppressive. NOTHING is more suppressive than test! There are , however, things that will kill libido.

Not saying that this is not true, but saying I do not believe it. Then again maybe you have studies and studies to back it up, or was it just a rant without sufficient/any evidence other than belief?

Tren and Deca raise prolactin and progesterone. That's the killer. They don't shut down the HPTA more than test.

Perhaps not, but who said they don't shut down it as equally as test - cause I haven't seen any any any studies yet, but maybe you can post up?

And even dumber is when people suggest using test along with these compounds as some sort of responsible remedy. IT"S JUST ANOTHER SUPPRESSIVE COMPOUND!!! It will mask the problems but it still supresses.

What compounds ai's or other anabolic/androgenics? AI's of course people use them, supression/prevention of some estrogen, not all to prevent too much water retention, gyno, high bp etc.

Start slow.

Finally we agree -

Use Primo or var or a little dbol. You can always add more and more test as you go along.

What aas hormone is more readily available in your body than anything else?

Testosterone.

God did not create all things equal and he sure as hell did not with TEST! It WILL BE long lived.

Good post Sir but definitely not one of your best.

 

[J. Adams]

I am a "Noob" who potentially considers Test as a first cycle. ...I guess I don't understand this debate?

If test WILL WORK as a good first cycle, then why shouldn't it be suggested? As far as I understand, ALL of these AAS/Prohormone/Designer add-ons are potentially dangerous if improperly administered. If one is less "dangerous" or easier to use than another, then say so ...but that doesn't mean a more sophisticated Noob wouldn't rather take the more difficult (or dangerous) route. As long as the info is available, then let the Noob make the call.

The WORST thing would be to suppress the information and have some poor Noob operating on outdated or misguided information.

MY question:

I have read up on these legal-to-purchase designer solutions (i.e., Monsterdrol, Havoc, Cyclotren, etc.). Why isn't there more recommendations for a Noob to go down this road as a first cycle as opposed to diving right into syringes, grapefruit-sized prostates and visits from your friendly neighborhood customs agents?

Wouldn't designer gear be a good suggestion for a well choreographed street-legal first cycle? If the Noob gets good results, then maybe they can move on up to the next levels.

Birdman

The 19-nortestosterone variants (Deca, Tren) will shut your down for far longer than testosterone.

The easiest cycle to do by far is a simple dbol/test cycle. You honestly don't need that much AAS to get decent results.(20mg Dbol/day with 250mg test/week will work quite well. (Thats only 390mg/week total of AAS)

With that test/dball (Dball is used only for the first 4-5 weeks) cycle you can easily avouid side effects with an AI.

A novice AAS user should never jump up to something like Primo right away.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

C'mon lads, you all must know that there are very few studies about steroids in healthy men, let alone on specific things such as this.

I find this asking for studies quite odd.

75% of the time if someone posts a study, then it is criticised saying it is on rats or the doses were wrong and then people say experience counts for more.

Well, that is what we have here, experience.

To be honest, I think it is great that Nelson is challenging the bodybuilding word of mouth myths that are propagated on the internet.


BTW, Dave Palumbo also recommends primo and or var for a first cycle, no test.

Tat, if Nelson comes out and says Test supresses natural test more than any other steroid - with no disrespect, I would not take his word for it. I would like to know where this information comes from.

I cannot say the world is not round, it is the shape of a rugby ball without giving any proof to that. It goes against common belief.

While it may be good to be controversial, people cannot just pull figures and numbers out of thin air, there needs to be some substance behind them.

I am just wanting to see that substance.

 

[Bastow86]

I just started my first cycle with 200mg of test and injecting twice a week, three days apart. Now you are saying i wasted my money? I weigh in at 175lbs when i finish my cycle, i will give you my gains and before/after pics. I will re-post with my "opinon."

 

[Tatyana]

I just started my first cycle with 200mg of test and injecting twice a week, three days apart. Now you are saying i wasted my money? I weigh in at 175lbs when i finish my cycle, i will give you my gains and before/after pics. I will re-post with my "opinon."

The thread is about which steroid will suppress your HPTA the most hun.


Test works, that is not the issue here.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I just started my first cycle with 200mg of test and injecting twice a week, three days apart. Now you are saying i wasted my money? I weigh in at 175lbs when i finish my cycle, i will give you my gains and before/after pics. I will re-post with my "opinon."

what kind of test are you on, test e or test cyp?

 

[bsdgeek]

I think everyone here is missing the point. He's talking about suppression and trying to say on a safe side- if there really is one- that there are other alternatives that don't shut you down. He's basically trying to challenge us to open our minds and look into other alternatives to spare our HPTA.

Now, having said that- on the dbol issue- one question above was how long could you run it- well, on here I have seen recommendations that say not to exceed 8 weeks, but IMHO I'd never go longer than 6 weeks, and personally for me, not more than 4, just as I have bloodwork to show how bad the stuff is on the liver, and honestly, it'll be a long time before I hit the ole dbol again. That shit is just poison, IMO. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the shit out of some dbol, and if you could stay on it year round, I'd be there. But after the last two bloodwork panels and my internal medicine/hrt doc told me what it was doing to me, fuck that. Keep in mind that this is how I feel, I have kids and am almost 40, so I tend to err on the safe side.

Now, on to Primo and Var. Primo may not shut you down, but it's expensive as hell. Var will shut you down if you take enough to get anything out of it. And on winny, almost the same as dbol, it's really hard on you and IMO isn't as nearly safe as test. So, not disagreeing with you Nelson, as you know I have much respect, but safety becomes an issue with this as well. And low to moderate dose test will not affect your lipid panels, as bad, nor will it affect your liver. So, although it may shut you down, it seems safer due to the fact it doesn't hit the liver, and at low to moderate doses it doesn't affect the rest of you, and has less sides.

So, I ask this question, is safety more important? (In relation to the rest of your bodily functions), or is suppression? I know both are, but just trying to guide a little discussion, and I know you have a wealth of knowledge and experience. I also know that this started as an 'anti-suppression' thread, and have read all posts, but just for discussion, I think the comeback to your original post should have taken into account the other areas of the body that get affected by other compounds and why the risks of suppression outweigh the others. This thread has gotten to be an implied 'don't use test' thread, which is clearly not what you were saying.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I can not get into splitting hairs. When I say test is WORST, I mean it's pure androgen, hence, the most suppressive. That's the proof. The proof that people ask for sometimes doesn't exist. There's no proof to the contrary so all we can do is speculate based on existing knowledge. To simply disagree and say "prove it" is a little silly.

As Digger might have said; "Say why you disagree. Present your side. Give your reasoning. But don't just cut down an idea because you don;t like it. Use logic to debate, not emotion or posturing "

Yeah, there are worse compounds. HEROIN would be a worse cycle. But come one bros. Cut some slack.

I did not say Primo was mast and proviron, the inference was that the results were similar as is the effects form the molecular structure. How technical do we have to get?

 

[the_alcatraz]

I think everyone here is missing the point. He's talking about suppression and trying to say on a safe side- if there really is one- that there are other alternatives that don't shut you down. He's basically trying to challenge us to open our minds and look into other alternatives to spare our HPTA.

Now, having said that- on the dbol issue- one question above was how long could you run it- well, on here I have seen recommendations that say not to exceed 8 weeks, but IMHO I'd never go longer than 6 weeks, and personally for me, not more than 4, just as I have bloodwork to show how bad the stuff is on the liver, and honestly, it'll be a long time before I hit the ole dbol again. That shit is just poison, IMO. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the shit out of some dbol, and if you could stay on it year round, I'd be there. But after the last two bloodwork panels and my internal medicine/hrt doc told me what it was doing to me, fuck that. Keep in mind that this is how I feel, I have kids and am almost 40, so I tend to err on the safe side.

Now, on to Primo and Var. Primo may not shut you down, but it's expensive as hell. Var will shut you down if you take enough to get anything out of it. And on winny, almost the same as dbol, it's really hard on you and IMO isn't as nearly safe as test. So, not disagreeing with you Nelson, as you know I have much respect, but safety becomes an issue with this as well. And low to moderate dose test will not affect your lipid panels, as bad, nor will it affect your liver. So, although it may shut you down, it seems safer due to the fact it doesn't hit the liver, and at low to moderate doses it doesn't affect the rest of you, and has less sides.

So, I ask this question, is safety more important? (In relation to the rest of your bodily functions), or is suppression? I know both are, but just trying to guide a little discussion, and I know you have a wealth of knowledge and experience. I also know that this started as an 'anti-suppression' thread, and have read all posts, but just for discussion, I think the comeback to your original post should have taken into account the other areas of the body that get affected by other compounds and why the risks of suppression outweigh the others. This thread has gotten to be an implied 'don't use test' thread, which is clearly not what you were saying.

No he's not bro.

The title of the thread AND the topic was not to give advice to noobs to take test only first cycles, and not about supression.

If it was about supression, then the topic title would be: what do you think is the most supressive steroid? even then, i doubt the answer would be "test"

 

[UA_Iron]

I can not get into splitting hairs. When I say test is WORST, I mean it's pure androgen, hence, the most suppressive. That's the proof. The proof that people ask for sometimes doesn't exist. There's no proof to the contrary so all we can do is speculate based on existing knowledge. To simply disagree and say "prove it" is a little silly.

As Digger might have said; "Say why you disagree. Present your side. Give your reasoning. But don't just cut down an idea because you don;t like it. Use logic to debate, not emotion or posturing "

Yeah, there are worse compounds. HEROIN would be a worse cycle. But come one bros. Cut some slack.

I did not say Primo was mast and proviron, the inference was that the results were similar as is the effects form the molecular structure. How technical do we have to get?

Thats how logic works, Nelson. If you make a claim you have to support and provide enough evidence to make your case. Its not other people's job to disprove something you said.

You have still failed to make a good case.

 

[J. Adams]

Thats how logic works, Nelson. If you make a claim you have to support and provide enough evidence to make your case. Its not other people's job to disprove something you said.

You have still failed to make a good case.

^^^

 

[Mr. dB]

So if shutting down your HPTA is bad for a first cycle, at what point in one's cycle experience does it become not so bad, or at least less of an unsurmountable obstacle?

 

[bsdgeek]

No he's not bro.

The title of the thread AND the topic was not to give advice to noobs to take test only first cycles, and not about supression.

If it was about supression, then the topic title would be: what do you think is the most supressive steroid? even then, i doubt the answer would be "test"

bro, re-read his first post, this thread has taken a fork in the road that's way off track. if you want to challenge him, ask about how the other compounds affect you, don't get stuck on the test thing, it's obvious you love the T, as do i, and honestly, i'll include it in every cycle, and it's part of my life now as i'm on hrt, but that's not how to disprove a theory. we have to weigh other risks associated with other compounds, and the availability and price of some. this makes the conversation more manageable. primo for some is just not an option. and var, when taking too high of a dose will shut you down too, other compounds have nastier sides. this is the way this thread needs to look. if you want to debate with Nelson, debate. we need to base it on facts that we have, like Tat and Nelson have said, there's very little research to back most of what we do, so we have to go on experience, and let me just add, Nelson has way more experience in this gig than most of us. i'm not saying i always agree with him, and in the past, that has bitten me once or twice, and i'll admit having sent a couple of pm's to him admitting how he was right. just keep this in mind when we're debating in a public forum. experience will always trump theory.

 

[the_alcatraz]

bro, re-read his first post, this thread has taken a fork in the road that's way off track. if you want to challenge him, ask about how the other compounds affect you, don't get stuck on the test thing, it's obvious you love the T, as do i, and honestly, i'll include it in every cycle, and it's part of my life now as i'm on hrt, but that's not how to disprove a theory. we have to weigh other risks associated with other compounds, and the availability and price of some. this makes the conversation more manageable. primo for some is just not an option. and var, when taking too high of a dose will shut you down too, other compounds have nastier sides. this is the way this thread needs to look. if you want to debate with Nelson, debate. we need to base it on facts that we have, like Tat and Nelson have said, there's very little research to back most of what we do, so we have to go on experience, and let me just add, Nelson has way more experience in this gig than most of us. i'm not saying i always agree with him, and in the past, that has bitten me once or twice, and i'll admit having sent a couple of pm's to him admitting how he was right. just keep this in mind when we're debating in a public forum. experience will always trump theory.

I just re-read the entire thread. It is about test bro lol

Until he answered my post with the whole "suppression" business it was about.....and anyone who reads the title will just talk about test....it's the logical thing to say to an "illegical and cotroversial" statement

 

[J. Adams]

I can not get into splitting hairs. When I say test is WORST, I mean it's pure androgen, hence, the most suppressive. That's the proof. ?

This is what got you in trouble in this thread.

Testosterone is ONLY used as the therapuetic index. Basically test = 100. (Both for the androgenic and anabolic properties)

There are many compounds with an androgenic ratio greater than 1.

i.e. Trenbolone is a far stronger androgen then test, and therefore will be far more suppresive for your HPTA.

 

[bsdgeek]

I just re-read the entire thread. It is about test bro lol

Until he answered my post with the whole "suppression" business it was about.....and anyone who reads the title will just talk about test....it's the logical thing to say to an "illegical and cotroversial" statement

yep, but the thread took a turn for the wrong. i'd personally like to know which and why, instead of why he's saying that about test. see what i mean? what does he recommend? dbol? that shit is hard on the liver, even at 30 mg's/day. primo? common, there's only a few of us on here that can really afford it, and if i'm spending that kind of cash, fuck it, i'm buying hgh- which doesn't suppress you, and there's medical evidence to prove that.(and don't ask me to prove it, if you want to know, look it up yourself- not intended for you alcatraz, just the other noobs). and var at anything above 35 - 40 mgs /day will suppress too. so, now we have dht based compounds, which a lot of us don't want to use due to the sides. so, now where do we go? that's all i'm saying my brotha. and one more, nandrolones? without test? i'm sorry, but i like to fuck. lol

 

[khemix]

I typically agree with Nelly, but not on this. At all.

I wouldn't have gained 30lbs on my first cycle and kept 25 of it off of primo and var. I dont disagree that its a good idea to test the waters tho. The people that aren't afraid, or a little less conservative than you, would like to take full advantage of that first cycle.

My first cycle was 400mg/test e and 25mg/dbol. The only side effect I had was bloat. I'll take my bloat and 25lbs over primo and var any day. Not to mention the $500 that I'll save.

Either way, typically no matter what the compound, when on cycle our natural test production shuts down. This includes dbol and primo. There are different degrees, but shut down is shut down. So if I'm gonna shut myself down and be stupid enough to take steroids...i think i'll do everything i can to take full advantage. And dont say I'm being unhealthy, i get bloodwork done and am im perfect health.

I can not get into splitting hairs. When I say test is WORST, I mean it's pure androgen, hence, the most suppressive. That's the proof. ?

Shame on you Nelly. You should know that Trenbolone is ATLEAST 2-3 times more androgenic than testosterone.

So no, test definanttly ISN'T the most androgenic nor suppressive.

Damn Nelly, i think you're just trying to stir the shit with this one man.

 

[dabuffguy]

I typically agree with Nelly, but not on this. At all.

I wouldn't have gained 30lbs on my first cycle and kept 25 of it off of primo and var. I dont disagree that its a good idea to test the waters tho. The people that aren't afraid, or a little less conservative than you, would like to take full advantage of that first cycle.

My first cycle was 400mg/test e and 25mg/dbol. The only side effect I had was bloat. I'll take my bloat and 25lbs over primo and var any day. Not to mention the $500 that I'll save.

Either way, typically no matter what the compound, when on cycle our natural test production shuts down. This includes dbol and primo. There are different degrees, but shut down is shut down. So if I'm gonna shut myself down and be stupid enough to take steroids...i think i'll do everything i can to take full advantage. And dont say I'm being unhealthy, i get bloodwork done and am im perfect health.



Shame on you Nelly. You should know that Trenbolone is ATLEAST 2-3 times more androgenic than testosterone.

So no, test definanttly ISN'T the most androgenic nor suppressive.

Damn Nelly, i think you're just trying to stir the shit with this one man.

We need you around more bro. I always love reading your posts.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

We need you around more bro. I always love reading your posts.

^^^
Smart bro up in the house

 

[the_alcatraz]

I typically agree with Nelly, but not on this. At all.

I wouldn't have gained 30lbs on my first cycle and kept 25 of it off of primo and var. I dont disagree that its a good idea to test the waters tho. The people that aren't afraid, or a little less conservative than you, would like to take full advantage of that first cycle.

My first cycle was 400mg/test e and 25mg/dbol. The only side effect I had was bloat. I'll take my bloat and 25lbs over primo and var any day. Not to mention the $500 that I'll save.

Either way, typically no matter what the compound, when on cycle our natural test production shuts down. This includes dbol and primo. There are different degrees, but shut down is shut down. So if I'm gonna shut myself down and be stupid enough to take steroids...i think i'll do everything i can to take full advantage. And dont say I'm being unhealthy, i get bloodwork done and am im perfect health.



Shame on you Nelly. You should know that Trenbolone is ATLEAST 2-3 times more androgenic than testosterone.

So no, test definanttly ISN'T the most androgenic nor suppressive.

Damn Nelly, i think you're just trying to stir the shit with this one man.

Good post.

 

[boychimalochi]

Yes. I know this is an unpopular stance but I maintain that a test only cycle is the WORST thing someone can do for a first cycle.

The reason is that test is what our body makes. It doesn't ake Primo or tren or deca. Give it test and it;'ll make less. People thinkother compounds are more suppressive. NOTHING is more suppressive than test! There are , however, things that will kill libido.

Tren and Deca raise prolactin and progesterone. That's the killer. They don't shut down the HPTA more than test.

And even dumber is when people suggest using test along with these compounds as some sort of responsible remedy. IT"S JUST ANOTHER SUPPRESSIVE COMPOUND!!! It will mask the problems but it still supresses.

I still think the best first cycle is a short low dose one -- to test the waters. I rmember when doing a couple of dbol was a major thrill. And we got results! Today, that isn;t enough , even if you're 150 pounds and haven't begun to tap your full potential.

Start slow. Use Primo or var or a little dbol. You can always add more and more test as you go along.

I agree on Nelsons principle.

I think most people have take it way out of context, Nelson is putting forward a principle, its easy to break down each sentence and compare or criticize asking for proof. I believe the point of his statement was to make newbies doing a first cycle aware that a test cycle to start is not the only way, as popular as it is on this site. That there are other compounds that are easier on the body and in this case the HPTA. The reasoning being that you start small and comfortable and work your way up. A way of testing the waters.

He is trying to reason with people new to the game. I believe that it is our responsebility to help newbies. I am sure most here agree that a high test dbol run is fantastic, but is it good for people starting out? Not everyone here is looking for the same things, there are teenagers on here, 40-50 year old's, serious bodybuilders, sportsmen ect all looking for different things. Would it not be best to have a safety first attitude?

 

[the_alcatraz]

I agree on Nelsons principle.

I think most people have take it way out of context, Nelson is putting forward a principle, its easy to break down each sentence and compare or criticize asking for proof. I believe the point of his statement was to make newbies doing a first cycle aware that a test cycle to start is not the only way, as popular as it is on this site. That there are other compounds that are easier on the body and in this case the HPTA. The reasoning being that you start small and comfortable and work your way up. A way of testing the waters.

He is trying to reason with people new to the game. I believe that it is our responsebility to help newbies. I am sure most here agree that a high test dbol run is fantastic, but is it good for people starting out? Not everyone here is looking for the same things, there are teenagers on here, 40-50 year old's, serious bodybuilders, sportsmen ect all looking for different things. Would it not be best to have a safety first attitude?

I fail to understand how something like "Stop giving test advice to noobs" can be interpreted in any other way.

 

[J. Adams]

I agree on Nelsons principle.


He is trying to reason with people new to the game. I believe that it is our responsebility to help newbies. I am sure most here agree that a high test dbol run is fantastic, but is it good for people starting out? QUOTE]


The answer is an unqualified yes. Test/dball have sides that can easily be controlled at low dosages. And they are also highly ulikely to be faked (As they are so cheap)

 

[Mr. dB]

Not everyone here is looking for the same things, there are teenagers on here, 40-50 year old's, serious bodybuilders, sportsmen ect all looking for different things. Would it not be best to have a safety first attitude?

Teenagers should just say no.

 

[needtogetaas]

Teenagers should just say no.

yes.

 

[layinback]

i see nothing wrong with a test first cycle. testosterone cyp or enanthate @ 250 - 300 mg's for 10 weeks.

i could make a strong argument for this but it's already been made.

i like K.I.S.S. ( keep it simple stupid )

 

[the_alcatraz]

i see nothing wrong with a test first cycle. testosterone cyp or enanthate @ 250 - 300 mg's for 10 weeks.

i could make a strong argument for this but it's already been made.

i like K.I.S.S. ( keep it simple stupid )

I agree like I justified 50 times in this thread.

Test long esters

 

[rediculus]

Ok this is from just ignorance so perhaps someone can clarify.

HUGE gains in muscle from test on your first cycle...Whatever who gives a @#$% if it shuts down your testosterone. if your a long hauler AAS your not concerned with that..You can pop test any time you want if your body doesn't make it.

however Huge gains in muscle.
Means huge gains in strength?

Means HUGE stresses on your body tendons and joints...Anyone ever seen a torn bicep? If I am correct Test does not force the tendons to grow as well?

My first cycle will be a woosie cycle I know but It'll be legal (monster/Derma and perhaps a 3rd but not likely)so based on the title my reason for my "first cycle" being a pussy cycle is A. My body isn't ready for massive leaps in strength. My joints are not built up for the weight yet. Imagine tearing a muscle doing 400lbs on squats..Tearing a pec..Doesn't happen alot but to me that's the biggest disadvantage the "title" of the thread compeletely off subject and yes I know probably ignorant.

Lastly I am adding. Just getting used to a schedule. Pill at this time understand the change in personality...Not that anyone has lost control and gone into roid rage because they couldn't handle their shit. Like motorcycles you don't generally recommend someone start in the Gixxer or ninja 1k because they'll probably @#$# up and kill themselves.

Otherwise for maximum gains they should go with 1g of test a week right? That would be a big growth cycle?

 

[misticat]

test is always a good first cycle! where are you coming up with this crap nelson?

 

[dabuffguy]

Ok this is from just ignorance so perhaps someone can clarify.

HUGE gains in muscle from test on your first cycle...Whatever who gives a @#$% if it shuts down your testosterone. if your a long hauler AAS your not concerned with that..You can pop test any time you want if your body doesn't make it.

however Huge gains in muscle.
Means huge gains in strength?

Means HUGE stresses on your body tendons and joints...Anyone ever seen a torn bicep? If I am correct Test does not force the tendons to grow as well?

My first cycle will be a woosie cycle I know but It'll be legal (monster/Derma and perhaps a 3rd but not likely)so based on the title my reason for my "first cycle" being a pussy cycle is A. My body isn't ready for massive leaps in strength. My joints are not built up for the weight yet. Imagine tearing a muscle doing 400lbs on squats..Tearing a pec..Doesn't happen alot but to me that's the biggest disadvantage the "title" of the thread compeletely off subject and yes I know probably ignorant.

Lastly I am adding. Just getting used to a schedule. Pill at this time understand the change in personality...Not that anyone has lost control and gone into roid rage because they couldn't handle their shit. Like motorcycles you don't generally recommend someone start in the Gixxer or ninja 1k because they'll probably @#$# up and kill themselves.

Otherwise for maximum gains they should go with 1g of test a week right? That would be a big growth cycle?

So, you choose an oral that gives drastic increases in strength dries your joints out, over using test? And your reasoning is tendon and joint protection?

I think you will find that monsterdrol will kick your ass in the strength department. Especially for a first. Monsterdrol is NOT a wussy cycle at all.

And, no, maximum gains can be achieved with 250-500mg test per week. 1g test is way overkill for a first, and even a 10th cycle.

 

[LiquidPhire]

Nelson is either bored, taken too much UNLEASHED,

or is just in the mood to start a food fight.

Why he decides to pull this stuff out of thin air baffles me.

...Back to football.

lol =)

 

[rediculus]

see learning all the time..However my question then becomes with the greater gains in strength would the more rapid increase in strength of test increase someones risk for torn ligaments tendons and muscles? I see where he is coming from as alot of young men 23 or 24 (yes that's young and relatively naive at that age)will take someones word as law and not wanting to be "woosie" or too scared to start on "test" the "real stuff" load up and dose the same as a 3rd or 4th cycle pro.

Personally...I don't know how "clockwork" I am at taking pills and I want to stay away from pharmaceutical PCT...From what I have been reading this is an option with the OTC anabolic enhancers. I did hear needto mention it dried him out a little but I didn't know monsterdrol was so infamous for joint pain? Also keep in mind I am not already taking it because I am prepping my joints and in cycle therapy for it. (joint supplements very very heavy weight then on cycle jumping to 10 or 12 rep sets for the first few weeks of growth) I know I will expect some improvements in strength with monster but compared to a test cycle is what I mean as far as "pussy cycle"

I just think his intention is if someones going to take your word as doctorine do you want their health to be risked or take it safe? Starting slow(er) is never a bad idea..same theory you don't tell an 18 year old to load up on test. Start out big where do you go from there? really though I am curious if anyone has experience with Monsterdrol

 

[the_alcatraz]

So, you choose an oral that gives drastic increases in strength dries your joints out, over using test? And your reasoning is tendon and joint protection?

I think you will find that monsterdrol will kick your ass in the strength department. Especially for a first. Monsterdrol is NOT a wussy cycle at all.

And, no, maximum gains can be achieved with 250-500mg test per week. 1g test is way overkill for a first, and even a 10th cycle.

I always find it funny when I see people use 1.5-2 grs of test and they are the size of my left thigh...maybe that's why

500mgs of test e is enuogh for some pretty good damn growth. 750mgs if you're a beast on your 5th cycle. Anything over a gram and you're just getting rediculous, unless you're competing.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hmm, still not hearing many viable arguments to the contrary other than that's what people want to do. And that's fine. Maybe I should have phrased it in the form of a question. WHY is testosterone a good first cycle? I think I'll get the same answers. It seems to be more of a convenience/cost thing.

I get clients all the time who started with test, look like nothing and aren;t getting any "kick" from a gram a week after a while. They want to know what else they can do beyond their current growth . If they learned how to cycle correctly, maybe they wouldn't be having these problems.

Damn, I'm no mass monster and I placed in the NPC without ever using test. I don;t understand why people are so adamant that they can;t grow without it.

And for the record, I love test. It's one of my best friends! But I think people have gotten off my original point.

Yes, tren is more powerful androgen mg per mg but it isn't a commonly recommended first cycle drug.

 

[dabuffguy]

I don;t understand why people are so adamant that they can;t grow without it.

I don't know anyone who thinks that, or has said that here.

 

[the_alcatraz]

I don't know anyone who thinks that, or has said that here.

+1

But just to make things clear, this thread is in no way an attack against Nelson nor should it be perceived in such a way.

 

[dabuffguy]

Nelson is always good to bring a legit and viable conversation to the board, even if it is controversial. I like that. Thinking out of the box is a good thing.