Should some of you really be using AAS?

[wilson6]

This is not meant to be a rant or flame or anything of that nature, but an observation that got me thinking.

I just read a thread that stated that before AAS this person could only press 25 x 8, now with a pretty good cycle of AAS she can press 45 x 6.

Now, not to only pick on this person because I have seen a number of threads boasting about increases in strength with AAS and lifts being mentioned so I have to comment.

As I read about these weights begin lifted, I think of my some of my female clients. No juice, average american diets, few if any supplements, train 3 HOURS a WEEK, no lifting background, etc.

But, in many cases with only a year or so of training they are shoulder dumbbell pressing 40 - 50 x 8, flat dumbbell pressing 50 - 65 for 8, leg pressing 500 + for high reps (50), etc.

Even some of the "rails" or distance runners I get in with no lifting backgound, skinny as a toothpick and pathetically weak are shoulder pressing 30 x 8 DBs and flat pressing 35 x 8 DBs within 6 months. Again, nothing fancy, no supplements, just a relatively balanced diet and hard training.

So when I hear that someone is using some of the weights described while on AAS and these weights are no more or less than most of the women I train without AAS, supplements, special routines and hours in the gym, I have to think there is something wrong here and it's not that most of you have poor genetics.

Don't ask me what the problem is, but it really seems like there is one.

If you can't flat dumbbell press 50 x 8 or bench 95 x 8 or squat 225 x 8 to the box on a smith machine without AAS after a year of training, supplements, proper diet and hours in the gym, there is a problem and it shouldn't be solved with AAS.

Does anyone agree here?

W6

 

[Phemomena]

I'm probably one of the ones that is being referred to in this thread.. but i have many reasons for going the route that have... i'm tiny and determined to get stronger... the two combined in me have resulted in a lot of injuries and abuse that my body just didn't want to be put through any more... i think unfortunately i'd reached my genetic limit at a measly 110 lbs.. (maybe i'm wrong, but three years of busting my ass says to me that i'm not)... could i have gotten where i am w/o AS, probably, but at what cost... i don't want to be a candidate for knee/shoulder or whatever surgery... i'm now feeling a lot more comfortable with the weights i want to use and not scared that something will give at any second (i do now and have always used good form, but that's not always enough)

what really gets me is the girls that don't even know WHY they're doing this... they are using as a form of 'weight control' or 'fat loss'... where did these ideas come from? really, who is telling girls that they can take steroids and loose weight... 1) they aint going to do jack crap for you if your diet and training isn't bang on... and 2) you probably will gain weight... and most importantly 3) this is serious stuff... they aren't the least bit educated on what they're putting into their bodies... and are liable to end up wth some pretty nasty sides that they never even seen coming...

 

[Phemomena]

hehe for the record i was pushing 40's on db press (chest) before AS use probably could do more but i never have a spot and my wrists are bad...

 

[wilson6]

Spat,

1) You're not BULKING if you're bodyfat is going down.

2) There are many other factors related to strength than just plain muscle size. AAS alter a number of variables that affect strength. The muscle may become more dense for example. In other words, more contractile tissue and less non-contractile tissue in a given amount of space. Do your muscles feel harder? Ever hear, "I feel harder", etc. There are also changes in the nervous system (brain and at the muscle level). Also mechanical changes due to water retention.

3) Being leaner makes it harder to add muscle, thus harder to increase contractile tissue. However, you are getting leaner, but unless you are on an AAS that doesn't cause water retention, you won't look as defined or lean even though this has nothing to do with fat.

I know everyone says steroids don't make you leaner, but they do because they are nutrient repartitioning agents. If you stay on the same diet (total kcal and balance of protein, carbs and fat), didn't change your lifting routine, daily activity or cardio, I assure you that just adding AAS will increase muscle and decrease fat especially in women. This has been shown in the literature. In fact, if you look at the fact sheets given to docs to determine if a female patient is using steroids, they say to watch for increases in muscle mass and decreases in fat. There is a reason for that.

However having said that I will also say that steroids should NEVER be used solely as a fat loss agent or considered for that purpose. Too many possible negative sides simply to try and lose a few pounds of fat. Many other far safer and legal options that start with diet and exercise.

W6

 

[wilson6]

I understand your mindset PHEM. But..........

Sounds like chronic overtraining was holding you back more than genetics. The only thing that the AAS are doing now is overcoming that. If your injuries were truly due to poor genetics, you'd have plenty of them now as well. In fact, possibly more since your muscles are going to get stronger faster than the tendons will thus increasing your risk of injury. It's your desire to get bigger that's holding you back. No different than someone trying to get thin. You're trying too hard. AAS will only go so far and eventually you'll be back to an overtrained state and have to get off the AAS. Then life will not be fun at all.

W6

 

[Phemomena]

i know... its just hard on me hearing about all you bigger gals (no offence meant, i'm trying to get there myself )pushing so much weight and i'm coming along, but i struggle sometimes (especially squats... i get flashbacks of my transverse pull awhile back when i'm loading up the squat bar... eeek..) i think we have to take a person's size and genetics into account when we talk about how much weight they should be lifting... for a girl who's a muscular 150 to bench 135 it shouldn't be that much of an accomplishment, but for my tiny ass, well i'm pretty damn proud

and for the record... you're right, i have NEVER suggested ANYONE take an AS route... that is their own decision to make and they should know when they are ready... i fume to no end when i see people suggesting AS to anyone (though it really doesn't happen much)... i'm all about pushing that clean diet/hard work thing... no easy ways out...

 

[Hannibal]

Great post Phem. Gear is a tool...it is not a magical potion. It is just a part of your arsenal. I personally researched it for SEVERAL years before I decided to use. And even then I waited till after I was 24 when the male body's natural test production begins to reduce.

It kills me that these people will be so reckless with what they take into their body. I mean what kind of SHEEP mentality is it to take something that "some guy" told you would make you stronger. It is really sad...I mean do the research. And then you can make an educated decision whether or not the risk is worth it.

Your body is only as strong as its weakest link. And unfortunately for some....that weak link is their mind

"Mens Sana en Carpore Sani" (Latin)
A strong mind in a strong body"

 

[Phemomena]

w6-

did i overtrain - yes, of course i did... haven't we all at one point in our lives?

did i ALWAYS overtrain... ummm... NO!!!

my genetics may have not been the only factor holding me back, maybe i could have gotten farther without AS... but on the same note, i know i'll never be 140lbs unless i get back up to 30+% bf... at my size i'll never be able to lift as much on AS as some girls can lift naturally... i can accept that... i wanted to take myself to my limit... and i'd rather not be compared to other people (which is the main reason that i'll probably never compete)

don't get me wrong, i haven't plateaued for three years... its been about 5-6 months, and my injuries were one main (transverse pull) which brought my whole body outta whack.. (you never know what it's like to pull a muscle until you've pulled a stabalizer... dang!!!)... this caused just about every other type of ache and pain to manifest itself in the worst way... while recoperating from that, i made the decision to go the route i did...

i personally have been through all ranges of the spectrum... i've been in competitive gymnastics (that's where the bad wrists/ankles come from), i've been 30-40lbs overweight... i'm now pretty in tune with my body... i'm very careful when i train and yeah, i'm tough on myself.. am i using AS as a tool to overtrain and get away with it... i certainly hope not...

its possible that i'm harder on myself now... but it goes with the territory, you have to push yourself to get somewhere... i'm not just going to sit around in my comfort zone and hope that things will change, i have to make changes happen for myself...

was it the absolute best decision... who knows, but it was the one i made, and i feel it was a good one. Being the person i am, i fully researched everything, and tried learn as i possibly could... i didn't jump into this route lightheartely...


(okay, sorry if that was disjointed a little, i'm at work and i keep having to leave and come back )

 

[new@gettinbig]

Very good post....especially after I just read muneca wanted to change her body cause she went from a size 3-4 to a 6!!!! I guess everyone has their reasons and I am not one to judge..its your body...and your choice. I do believe however it is a very SERIOUS choice and sometimes is not seen as that. I think many assume they will get better results, lose weight yada yada yada..and you can but you gotta train your ass off. Its not a short cut and you cant slide your way through it. Yes I think you should establish a good solid base...if you are lifting 10lbs dumbbells you may want to wait for a bit

Sometimes women are unaware of their strength because they have never lifted heavy and it is something they may not do for whatever reason. Some may have no one to spot them...or just scared to do the heavier weights for fear of putting on tons of muscle....Sometimes some of the posts on here scare me a bit...lots of research and education needs to be done. We live in a society where everyone wants to take a pill and let it do the work.....while we relax and the lbs drop and bodies sculpt into hard ones. I come into contact w/ women all the time who look for this...and want overnight results as well.

Not many want to go at it hard and sacrafice and really push themselves. If you are going to do it... do it right and make it worth your time and money. Make sure you know what the hell is going on!

 

[buksoon]

My question in all of this is: Do you think that the compulsion to get bigger is a "cousin" of the compulsion to get smaller (aka anorexia)?

Both are rooted in a dissatisfaction with the body that genetics handed you and an (almost) "at whatever cost necessary" to change it. And more importantly, both are rooted in the need for CONTROL. Controlling the body, conquering its desires to eat (or DROP the thing that is heavy enough to make you cry and/or puke).

All that is healthy to a point. But with AS and courting injury and the boasting about crying/fainting/puking after a lift (I am DEFINITELY guilty of that) ... I wonder if it's just a different strain of the same "virus" that is anorexia.

*It's not really "boasting" as much as it is proving we're not wimps and we can belong among a group of women on a site called "Elite."