you are right too, but these people don't usually juice they usually play bball. i was 6 2 125 full grown as a fresh in college, no joke. i ain't embarassed, and now i am up to 165 but man puttin on weight natty was impossible, i could only get to like 140. i had a 26 inch waist, and no legs and my arms are 6 6 span. waist is now 28, but my joints are tiny, just small frame. i feel like at 190 i am gonna look sick cause of how narrow my body is. you dudes are right though i am an exception, and i am lucky i have the patience to work through this ecto morph shit. thing is once u beat it all your gains are lean. thanks fellas k to all of you for being constructive