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mrplunkey
New member
I wouldn't quit the SARMS regardless. I'll post more detail later, but my numbers are unexplainable. My test is low and it's screwing with my head, but I'm overtraining, undereating -- yet moving weight like I was jucing hard.
My SARMS-S4 Experience
- Thread starter mrplunkey
- Start date
I wouldn't quit the SARMS regardless. I'll post more detail later, but my numbers are unexplainable. My test is low and it's screwing with my head, but I'm overtraining, undereating -- yet moving weight like I was jucing hard.
truckdaddy
Banned
you just came off cycle, so the test levels reads correct. The s4 is not going to raise the test levels, but it wont suppress them at all. Thats why I love this compound. At my age I don't want to be shut down ever if I can avoid it...Looking forward to your next test.
EliteFitnessGuy
New member
I plan to do the same. After I finished my first cycle in summer 2008 (20-30 mg Winstrol+20-30 mg T-bol), I kept everything easily only with Tamoxifen, but I was not satisfied with my recuperation after my 2nd cycle, when I ran 40-50 mg Winstrol and 25 mg T-bol for nearly 9 weeks. It seems to me that if I run steroids for more than 6 weeks in high doses, Tamoxifen doesn't help me at al and I lose everything within 10 days after the cycle.
I have been just running Anavar (70 mg/day) for 5 weeks and I plan to run it for at least three additional weeks. I feel some suppression, although by far not as high as after Winstrol, but anyway, I think I would again lose all my gains with Tamoxifen, and S-4 seems a much better choice to me than HCG. In theory, you should observe further strength gains while on S-4, and the recuperation of your testosterone shouldn't be affected at all.
However, I think that Plunkey's dose of S-4 (80 mg/day) is unnecessarily high. Some guys posted their bloodwork after cycles with S-4, and it seems that 50 mg/day should be fine (at least when you use it with Tamoxifen), but 100 mg/day can suppress your endogenous test by 50%. I myself plan to run only 20 mg/day for 2 months.
mrplunkey
New member
I totally agree. What's unexplainable are my lifting numbers.
Here's an example: About two months ago, I hurt my back pretty badly doing deadlift. One of the managers at our gym was complaining about noise, so I had changed to a touch-and-go style deadlift while doing reps. That works great for lower weight, but I was doing it with 495 and it wrecked me.
So I've been doing very light deadlifts -- like mid 300's. I roll into the gym exhausted (I really need a day off) knowing I've got a test number in the 100's (which is an incredible mindfuck). I was doing 345lbs for 8's and couldn't even feel it. So I figured I'd play with 415lbs for 5's -- couldn't even feel that either. I put 485lbs on and it flew off the floor -- could have easily done another 50-100lbs. At that point I figured I might re-injure myself, so I moved to the next lift.
The point of that story above isn't the numbers -- I've deadlifted well over that before. But it's part of a long string of days when I'm expecting a less-than-average day and my numbers turn-out a solid 10%-20% high.
Today has to be a day off. I've been killing myself every workout for over two weeks straight (except one day, where I only did abs). I should know better too, but I wake-up feeling like a bus hit me and by 11:00am, I get this good-to-go feeling.
split endz
New member
Any effect on BP ?
split endz
New member
Where's the banner for sarms s4 ? I used to see it every time I got on here
SARMS Search
Banned
Please note we have no information on use in humans or animals.
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mrplunkey
New member
1-12-2010 Update
I'm three weeks into SARMS-S4 now and my dose is around 80 mg/day. Here are my observations:
1) Looking back, it does take about two weeks to settle-in with the product. I felt a little wierd -- not bad, not sick -- just a little wierd. I still have no vision sides and the wierd feeling is gone as well.
2) I don't have that testosterone juicy-feeling in the gym, but there is no question my numbers are holding firm or even going up. It's really strange to separate my gym attitude from my gym gains. Each day I go into the gym a little flat with that off-cycle feeling and each day I push numbers that I'm really happy with.
3) My libido isn't anything like while on-cycle, but my wood and performance is definitely like when I'm cycling. That's really strange too. I don't have that hard-up, always-thinking about sex mindset -- but then I put him to work and he crushes it.
Bottom Line: At three weeks, the product is working exactly as advertised. I'm ordering two more bottles today.
I'm out of town for the day today, but I'll get fresh pictures and lifts up soon.
P.S. My shoulders ache a little more than usual. I don't know if it's overtraining, using heavier weights or sleeping strangely. It's just a dull, acheing pain that makes it hard to sleep. Once I get warmed-up in the gym, my shoulders feel fine.
I'm three weeks into SARMS-S4 now and my dose is around 80 mg/day. Here are my observations:
1) Looking back, it does take about two weeks to settle-in with the product. I felt a little wierd -- not bad, not sick -- just a little wierd. I still have no vision sides and the wierd feeling is gone as well.
2) I don't have that testosterone juicy-feeling in the gym, but there is no question my numbers are holding firm or even going up. It's really strange to separate my gym attitude from my gym gains. Each day I go into the gym a little flat with that off-cycle feeling and each day I push numbers that I'm really happy with.
3) My libido isn't anything like while on-cycle, but my wood and performance is definitely like when I'm cycling. That's really strange too. I don't have that hard-up, always-thinking about sex mindset -- but then I put him to work and he crushes it.
Bottom Line: At three weeks, the product is working exactly as advertised. I'm ordering two more bottles today.
I'm out of town for the day today, but I'll get fresh pictures and lifts up soon.
P.S. My shoulders ache a little more than usual. I don't know if it's overtraining, using heavier weights or sleeping strangely. It's just a dull, acheing pain that makes it hard to sleep. Once I get warmed-up in the gym, my shoulders feel fine.
split endz
New member
Bump.. have to watch my BP closely; it's borderline high
mrplunkey
New member
I need to get a bp taken just to make sure all is well. Not expecting any surprises.
So do you all really think this stuff is not suppressive? I ask because 10 days in I agree with all of the common observations. Increased strength, better joint pain, no "juiced" feeling NONE, hardness etc. BUT my nuts have gone into hiding equivalent to low doses of test in the 200-400 mg/wk range. Any ideas? Im taking this alone 80mg. day with some nolva and my normal sups thats it.
ChemWiz
New member
Maybe its the cold....lol. My boys are swinging just fine. I know someone that ran s4 for 12 weeks straight at 100mgs and had no supresion.
Are you coming off cycle? Whats the nolva for?
Long story on the nolva but I'm coming off the letro that I was taking to get rid of the gyno from the hcg... bla bla bla anyway no actual androgens for over 3 months just playing around with some ancilaries lately working on the gyno. Good news no gyno flare from the SARMS so thats a good sign but who knows im taking nolva...
truckdaddy
Banned
Ive been running the s4 with no anti-es, no issues at all.
lookinfit75
New member
Any updates on your blood work?
mrplunkey
New member
1-17-2010 Update
Really no changes since last update. I've been traveling a fair amount and work has been making my training less consistant. Here are my latest observations from 40mg/day x 2 of SARMS-S4:
1) It's definitely helping me keep my on-cycle strength gains. No question. I've lost at most just a little bit but that's in the face of a tough travel/work schedule and the fact that I'm pretty beaten-up from weeks of continuous, hard training. I've done a fair amount of work/personal entertaining too, so I've been drinking wine and eating off my diet plan as well.
2) I do see a slight yellow tinge and my eyes don't adjust to the dark quite as well. It's really no biggie.
3) SARMS-S4 does not induce any bloat. I'm sure of this one now.
4) I definitely don't get that testosterone-fueled energy in the gym. It's really strange to be on-cycle strong but not on-cycle energized toward lifting. It's not a problem -- but it is something you have to get used to.
5) Libido is good, wood is outstanding while on SARMS-S4.
I'm going to get follow-up blood work in about two weeks or so. Then I'll have additional data points that correspond to four weeks and eight weeks post-cycle (roughly). If my natural testosterone comes back, that will be the final test of this product.
Bottom Line: I'm impressed. It's definitely an alternative to cycling testosterone and may be an incredible bridging tool.
Really no changes since last update. I've been traveling a fair amount and work has been making my training less consistant. Here are my latest observations from 40mg/day x 2 of SARMS-S4:
1) It's definitely helping me keep my on-cycle strength gains. No question. I've lost at most just a little bit but that's in the face of a tough travel/work schedule and the fact that I'm pretty beaten-up from weeks of continuous, hard training. I've done a fair amount of work/personal entertaining too, so I've been drinking wine and eating off my diet plan as well.
2) I do see a slight yellow tinge and my eyes don't adjust to the dark quite as well. It's really no biggie.
3) SARMS-S4 does not induce any bloat. I'm sure of this one now.
4) I definitely don't get that testosterone-fueled energy in the gym. It's really strange to be on-cycle strong but not on-cycle energized toward lifting. It's not a problem -- but it is something you have to get used to.
5) Libido is good, wood is outstanding while on SARMS-S4.
I'm going to get follow-up blood work in about two weeks or so. Then I'll have additional data points that correspond to four weeks and eight weeks post-cycle (roughly). If my natural testosterone comes back, that will be the final test of this product.
Bottom Line: I'm impressed. It's definitely an alternative to cycling testosterone and may be an incredible bridging tool.
metalfujimi
New member
id like to see if your test levels increase to see if sarms are truly non-surpressive. thats the only info Im waiting on before I get some
mrplunkey
New member
If my test levels naturally restore while on SARMS-S4, I'll be putting it on everything I eat!
metalfujimi
New member
hahaha makes a great seasoning for chicken breast I heard....
N
Nitro79
Guest
metalfujimi
New member
now thats what Im talking aboutmakes a good seasoning for breasts i heard
mrplunkey
New member
1-17-2010 Update Addendum:
1) You may get a little spike in acne at first, but that seems to subside within the first two weeks.
2) You may get a little queezy stomach at first, but that too seems to subside within the first two weeks.
3) By week 3-4, your recovery will be at least as good as while on-cycle.
1) You may get a little spike in acne at first, but that seems to subside within the first two weeks.
2) You may get a little queezy stomach at first, but that too seems to subside within the first two weeks.
3) By week 3-4, your recovery will be at least as good as while on-cycle.
lookinfit75
New member
lookinfit75
New member
mrplunkey
New member
lookinfit75
New member
4) I definitely don't get that testosterone-fueled energy in the gym. It's really strange to be on-cycle strong but not on-cycle energized toward lifting. It's not a problem -- but it is something you have to get used to.
This is definately one of the wierdest things about being on this stuff. You dont feel fired up at all but the weight keeps moving when you think you should be done...
This is definately one of the wierdest things about being on this stuff. You dont feel fired up at all but the weight keeps moving when you think you should be done...
ChemWiz
New member
lookinfit75
New member
AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Another supp I HAVE to buy lol. Oh yeah this IS an expensive hobby.
metalfujimi
New member
unfortunately, it is. I was just thinking about my cycle coming up. I had everything planned and bought, and was at a relief that I wouldn't have to spend anymore money. Than I heard about Sarms, and of course, have to get some for PCT. Wouldn't want to lose my gains, now would we?
truckdaddy
Banned
love this log!
Have to keep in mind. The SARMS are acting on the androgen receptor and the body is reading it as a normal hormonal interaction regardless of the testosterone levels. The body is very efficient and it will not produce more testosterone unless it has to and while on SARMS it won't have to. This is why you feel good on the SARMS and still have low test levels. The body works through feed back mechanisms. If the body is having good/increased hormonal response it will decrease hormone production or hault it. Although SARMS may not obliviate the natural test levels, it definitely won't help them. Very excited about its potential though!
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ChemWiz
New member
not true, your natural test levels will return just the same with or with out SARMs. While S4 will not make the test levels return faster, they will not slow them down at all. It has no effect on the HPTA.
That is one if not the best thing about sarms s4.
Interesting. What you say makes sense but I couldn't find any studies that back it up. I'm interested in this subject so I was hoping maybe you guys had some links to more studies on sarms?
Awesome! Glad you are being thorough with this. Previous pics are f@#*ing awesome by the way!
billyawesome
New member
What eye support supplement??
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
Its Feb 1st. Post an update plunkey!
crulexis
New member
Results back yet?
billyawesome
New member
mrplunkey
New member
I move the bloodwork to this week. I've been traveling and couldn't time the fasting/draw correctly
I'm on it this week though -- expecting good things.
truckdaddy
Banned
Best SARMs thread ever
lookinfit75
New member
Yeah, I pretty much am waiting on Plunkey to get that blood work in. I already have the money set aside for my s4 
mrplunkey
New member
Yeah, I pretty much am waiting on Plunkey to get that blood work in. I already have the money set aside for my s4
Next week for sure. I had to travel almost every day this week -- it's been nuts.
lookinfit75
New member
drawn or results?
mrplunkey
New member
Drawn
lookinfit75
New member
Geez this is becoming a season finale cliff hanger or something hahaha.
metalfujimi
New member
I know man. ive been waiting for these results like no other
mrplunkey
New member
Blood drawn about an hour and a half ago.
02-09-2010 Update Pictures
My last test shot has now been almost 9 weeks ago. Here are the lastest pictures. Notice I'm a little bit bloated, but that's due to an insane travel schedule. Even 1-2 days at home will flatten my lower abdomen practically overnight.
I might have lost a small amount of muscle -- maybe 3lbs max. My weight maxes are slightly off but considering the abuse I've been doing to my body via work schedule lately, I'm extremely satisfied.
02-09-2010 Update Pictures
My last test shot has now been almost 9 weeks ago. Here are the lastest pictures. Notice I'm a little bit bloated, but that's due to an insane travel schedule. Even 1-2 days at home will flatten my lower abdomen practically overnight.
I might have lost a small amount of muscle -- maybe 3lbs max. My weight maxes are slightly off but considering the abuse I've been doing to my body via work schedule lately, I'm extremely satisfied.
Carlito B
New member
Blood drawn about an hour and a half ago.
02-09-2010 Update Pictures
My last test shot has now been almost 9 weeks ago. Here are the lastest pictures. Notice I'm a little bit bloated, but that's due to an insane travel schedule. Even 1-2 days at home will flatten my lower abdomen practically overnight.
I might have lost a small amount of muscle -- maybe 3lbs max. My weight maxes are slightly off but considering the abuse I've been doing to my body via work schedule lately, I'm extremely satisfied.
It looks to me like your arms and shoulders are fuller compared to the first pictures you posted.
Not bad considering you been off the Test for 9 weeks, usually by that time I would have lost most of my gains both muscle and strength.
Wonder what the bloodwork results will be.
C
Do you put that TP roll on to come over the top or underneath? If underneath nothing in this thread can be trusted. I can't say I see a huge difference but then that is the point, I guess. I was never one to lose much size/strength post cycle anyway. It was mostly a mental thing, so even a placebo benefit is worthwhile for me. It does appear to be doing something.
lookinfit75
New member
+1 haha.
Plunkey you're kickin some serious ass here with your conditioning bro. Kudos to you for the great work you put before even touching the s4 and yeah, you pretty much look like you're still on, 2+ months after you came off. You're still on G-H though, right?
mrplunkey
New member
Yeah -- still on GH. But I've backed down from 4.8 iu's/day for 5 on and 2 off to more like 2.4 iu's 3 days/week, 4.8 iu's 2 days/week and 2 days off.
And when I say bloated, I mean lower abdominal bloating. I've noticed that if I go from airplanes to taxis to meetings and don't move around much during the day, my lower abdomen swells a little and I feel bloated. For example today, I've been able to move around a good bit and can already feel less swollen.
I definitely feel like I'm on in terms of strength and body composition, but don't have that testosterone feeling in my head. It's funny because you don't feel agressive toward lifting while in SARMS-S4, but then you lift using your on-cycle numbers and workout frequency.
mrplunkey
New member
The only significant difference I've noticed can't really be captured in a picture. After about 4-5 weeks on test, I get a "fuller" feeling even when on adex at 0.5 mg/EOD. It's a slightly rounder, smoother feeling.
I used to really enjoy that period 2ish weeks after my last shot where I lost the swollen feeling but hadn't lost muscle yet. Historically, I crash about six weeks after my last shot and lose at least 10 lbs of muscle. Usually I index it based on my decline bench (most consistent lift) where I can do 315 for 8-10 reps while at the peak of my cycle, 6-8 reps about two weeks out of my cycle and then about 1-3 reps by about 7-8 weeks out. Now, I'm comfortably doing around 5-6 reps (as of yesterday) -- but that's in the face of a nasty work/travel schedule.
I'm convinced SARMS-S4 works. The big question is have I recovered my own natural test production while using it. I'll have bloodwork results by the end of the week for sure.
Carlito B
New member
As far as I know, SARMS-4 is not intended to promote/increase natural testosterone levels, IMO is more like a "testosterone mimicker" and I am still not sure whether or not moderate dosages may or may not shut you down, I guess we'll know when you the results come in.
BTW , this log is pretty good.
truckdaddy
Banned
I dont think it will promote, but It will wont hinder at all....
mrplunkey
New member
02-11-2009
Blood results back! Everything looked same or better (i.e. my ALT and AST numbers are slightly elevated, but always are).
Total Testosterone: 249
It's been seven weeks since my last PCT (HCG) shot. It's been 9.5 weeks since my last testosterone ethanate shot. So from 1/6/2010 (post cycle) to 2/09/2010, my total test has rebounded from 113 to 249.
My HRT doc didn't seem the least bit bothered (but he doesn't know about the SARMS-S4). He casually offered me HCG if I wanted it but didn't seem particularly interested in me using it one way or the other. My historical off-cycle (several months after PCT) test levels range between 400 and 600.
What do you guys think? I'm inclined to do another 2-4 weeks of SARMS-S4 and see if my free testosterone numbers keep climbing back without HCG. I'd rather keep everything else the same and see if I continue to rebound.
Blood results back! Everything looked same or better (i.e. my ALT and AST numbers are slightly elevated, but always are).
Total Testosterone: 249
It's been seven weeks since my last PCT (HCG) shot. It's been 9.5 weeks since my last testosterone ethanate shot. So from 1/6/2010 (post cycle) to 2/09/2010, my total test has rebounded from 113 to 249.
My HRT doc didn't seem the least bit bothered (but he doesn't know about the SARMS-S4). He casually offered me HCG if I wanted it but didn't seem particularly interested in me using it one way or the other. My historical off-cycle (several months after PCT) test levels range between 400 and 600.
What do you guys think? I'm inclined to do another 2-4 weeks of SARMS-S4 and see if my free testosterone numbers keep climbing back without HCG. I'd rather keep everything else the same and see if I continue to rebound.
lookinfit75
New member
with total t that low you should be feelin kinda crappy? how do you feel? I'd say if you're satisfied with your blood work and your Total T is rising then fuck it, go for it. As for me, PCT is starting in a few weeks so I guess I have a lil shopping I need to take care of. Thanks Plunkey for the detailed report.
mrplunkey
New member
I feel great. It's hard to compare apples-to-apples, but I'm working incredibly long hours and holding up well both physically and mentally.
I don't have that indestructible on-cycle feeling like testosterone gives me, but I do have its associated strength, body composition and recovery.
RADAR
Well-known member
Thats what happened to me this week ,i was throwing plates like i was on,today i feel like a dumptruck ran over me.
RADAR
DJLegacy2k1
New member
I think Ima get a 2nd bottle and extend my tests and see how things are effected after 4-6 weeks, I havent no neg sides, other than VERY VERY slight "dark/light" transitioning stuff, but its VERY minor. I want to REALLY beat myself up for a couple extra weeks and see what I can get out of it.
are you taking anything besides S-4 right now? Any natural test boosters for example?
mrplunkey
New member
I haven't gained any weight on SARMS-S4, but I've kept virtually all of my on-cycle gains. My last testosterone ethanate shot was December 4th.
mrplunkey
New member
I'm a little torn here.
Option A: Ride this out for 3-4 more weeks and get bloodwork done to see if my test levels continue to rise
Option B: Do a short run of low-dose HCG to see if it boosts my test levels back. How many of you would consider 7 weeks PCT too soon to take additional HCG?
Option A: Ride this out for 3-4 more weeks and get bloodwork done to see if my test levels continue to rise
Option B: Do a short run of low-dose HCG to see if it boosts my test levels back. How many of you would consider 7 weeks PCT too soon to take additional HCG?
I'd be interested to see what your Free Test levels were/are, not just Total T. With the Unleashed, it would have to be fairly high relative to your total T...which is probably why you're feeling good with libido, etc.
And, like wolfman said, you could do both. Only reason not to is just to continue your experiment with SARMs. Looks like your T levels are returning, but at your age it takes a bit more time than for those 20-something guys. So, if your satisfied that your levels would return (as it appears they have been), why not help them return quicker?
mrplunkey
New member
I don't use Nolvadex or clomid post cycle. My standard PCT is simply a series of HCG shots beginning 10 days after my last testosterone shot.
I normally do post-cycle bloodwork, but it's 3-4 months post cycle with test levels in the 400-600 range. What I don't know right now is if a total test level of 249 at seven weeks post-pct. I wish I had additional historical bloodwork.
mrplunkey
New member
If I've managed my estrogen aggressively with Armidex while on cycle, what other PCT product would I take (other than supplements, like Unleashed and Post Cycle)?
EliteFitnessGuy
New member
This is not true. S-4 is suppressive, although much much less than steroids. I know two guys, who used 100 mg/day, and both experienced 50% suppression. This is a lot, but if you used a similar dose of any steroid, your test levels would be virtually zero.
Actually, mine are zero, too
(11,25 ng/dl). Anavar at 60-80 mg/day, for 2 months did the job. 
Since I don't believe that Nolva could help me (I used it after my last cycle with Winstrol, and I lost all my gains within mere 2 weeks), I decided to take S-4 as a promising alternative. I started on Wednesday and I don't want to go over 20-25 mg/day. According to studies done in animals, 30 mg/day is a limit, below which you shouldn't observe any significant suppression. In theory, of course. It shouldn't be markedly anabolic at this dose, but I want to use it mainly as an anti-catabolic stuff. Since I don't take anything else, I am an ideal guinea pig for this purpose. I plan to do another bloodwork in mid-March.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
I JUST got the REAL eye stuff last night, I went out for Vday with this girl, she asked if i liked her new "BLUE" shirt she bought and worn since its my fave color, and I flat out said "that shirt is GREEN" and she thought I was crazy, because apparently its BRIGHT blue! I looked around inside of FRIDAYS and noticed everything is yellow...I hadnt had MUCH at all up until this point and im a good 3 weeks or so in...Guess Ill deal with it for now lol Sucks that I DEF have yellow tint now...
-Legacy
-Legacy
split endz
New member
Those transitions from bright to dark are most noticable to me. Like going inside any building after being outside on a bright day... it's pretty weird. I went in the bank Saturday & someone about 10 ft away waved & spoke to me. I couldn't tell who it was for about 15 seconds.. kinda embarrasing. If you really wanna be freaked out, be driving on a bright day & go into a tunnel... can't see nothing.
truckdaddy
Banned
This is not true. S-4 is suppressive, although much much less than steroids. I know two guys, who used 100 mg/day, and both experienced 50% suppression. This is a lot, but if you used a similar dose of any steroid, your test levels would be virtually zero.
Actually, mine are zero, too
If his test levels are going up even slightly, that is proof that S4 is NOT suppressive.
Anavar has shut me all the way down, S4 did nothing of sort.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
Guys,
Honestly lets not say SARMS-s4 is NOT suppressive, because even in studies they said they Doses OVER 50mg can start to be SLIGHTLY suppressive. So Doses around 50mg should be SAFE, people running 100mg+ may actually get some slight shut down BUT most people on here are being smart and not running higher doses, SARMS stopped showing a positive to negative reaction in smaller animals models at 30mg, so humans is most likely around 50mg as the positive to no negative (other than eyesight) results.
-Legacy
PS: just to clarify
Honestly lets not say SARMS-s4 is NOT suppressive, because even in studies they said they Doses OVER 50mg can start to be SLIGHTLY suppressive. So Doses around 50mg should be SAFE, people running 100mg+ may actually get some slight shut down BUT most people on here are being smart and not running higher doses, SARMS stopped showing a positive to negative reaction in smaller animals models at 30mg, so humans is most likely around 50mg as the positive to no negative (other than eyesight) results.
-Legacy
PS: just to clarify
truckdaddy
Banned
Guys,
Honestly lets not say SARMS-s4 is NOT suppressive, because even in studies they said they Doses OVER 50mg can start to be SLIGHTLY suppressive. So Doses around 50mg should be SAFE, people running 100mg+ may actually get some slight shut down BUT most people on here are being smart and not running higher doses, SARMS stopped showing a positive to negative reaction in smaller animals models at 30mg, so humans is most likely around 50mg as the positive to no negative (other than eyesight) results.
-Legacy
PS: just to clarify
mrplunky has been running around a 100mg ed I think, and his test levels are slowing moving up....Id say not very suppressive.
I will be getting back on the S4 soon.
I would definitely go on proper 4 weeks pct at 20 mg nolvadex a day.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
POST CYCLE, UNLEASHED, SUSTAIN should most likely be enough for a low dose SARMS cycle just to be safe, I think even Nolva might be a little harsh for SARMS unless you are running an UNNEEDED high dose...
-Legacy
-Legacy
EliteFitnessGuy
New member
He is running 80 mg/day, if I remember well. His endogenous testosterone may go up, but the question is, if he really fully recovers. I doubt it. He is somewhere around 250 ng/dl now, which is just 50% of the average testosterone level.
I wouldn't use such a high dose. I think 30 mg/day should be entirely sufficient to prevent strength and muscle losses, and at the same time, it could be slightly anabolic. But theory is theory. I will see in mid-March, how my PCT plan worked.
ChemWiz
New member
DJLegacy2k1
New member
ChemWiz,
This is a horrible MYTH that got started because of ONE VERY SPECIFIC DETAIL! I will find the original medical study that show that LOW DOSES technically around 30mg but in humans may be around 50mg show no shutdown BUT doses ANY higher than this then the subject will show SLIGHT shutdown of natural production...So people that are running 75-150mg like I have seen CAN and probably WILL have SOME type of shutdown. Even if it is just SLIGHT shutdown it should change everyones opinions on using SARMS as a PCT drug or think that NO PCT is needed. MOST of us can MOST LIKELY recover naturally on own own from the slight shutdown, but why would you want to risk it and why would you want to go a couple weeks with possible sides. Shutdown is DOSE dependent, so YES, PCT MAY NOT be needed in lower safer dose ranges, BUT if you bump it up, I would run some of these OTC products AT LEAST.
-Legacy
PS: SARMS is NEW and we dont have ALL of the answers yet, but any study showing the possibility of ANY shut down is not normally considered a good PCT tool. Although you may keep your strength we need MULTIPLE people to run it in PCT with bloodwork to REALLY get the whole picture.
This is a horrible MYTH that got started because of ONE VERY SPECIFIC DETAIL! I will find the original medical study that show that LOW DOSES technically around 30mg but in humans may be around 50mg show no shutdown BUT doses ANY higher than this then the subject will show SLIGHT shutdown of natural production...So people that are running 75-150mg like I have seen CAN and probably WILL have SOME type of shutdown. Even if it is just SLIGHT shutdown it should change everyones opinions on using SARMS as a PCT drug or think that NO PCT is needed. MOST of us can MOST LIKELY recover naturally on own own from the slight shutdown, but why would you want to risk it and why would you want to go a couple weeks with possible sides. Shutdown is DOSE dependent, so YES, PCT MAY NOT be needed in lower safer dose ranges, BUT if you bump it up, I would run some of these OTC products AT LEAST.
-Legacy
PS: SARMS is NEW and we dont have ALL of the answers yet, but any study showing the possibility of ANY shut down is not normally considered a good PCT tool. Although you may keep your strength we need MULTIPLE people to run it in PCT with bloodwork to REALLY get the whole picture.
truckdaddy
Banned
I know guys that have run higher doses with no shutdown, and yes, with blood work.
I have been up around 80mg ed with no shutdown. Other compounds shut me down very hard.
This is great feedback you guys...thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences with SARMS. DJLEGACY makes a good point about shutdown being at higher doses but I do believe Truckdaddy when he says that he hasn't had any shutdown as well. This is why drug companies perform clinical trials because everyone reacts in different ways to these compounds and I hope everyone here at EF will continue to posts results. Have our own little miniclinical trial.
truckdaddy
Banned
This is great feedback you guys...thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences with SARMS. DJLEGACY makes a good point about shutdown being at higher doses but I do believe Truckdaddy when he says that he hasn't had any shutdown as well. This is why drug companies perform clinical trials because everyone reacts in different ways to these compounds and I hope everyone here at EF will continue to posts results. Have our own little miniclinical trial.
who can say at higher doses, but any kind of oral shuts me down HARD. Even the pro-hormone stuff does.
Sarms did no such thing....no shutdown.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
The problem is some people can shoot a gram of multiple AAS and not get ANY sides and some people lose their hair and get gyno. There are documented studies of some shutdown with SARMS AND if you check the supplement section, several people have reported "WACKY" libido, on and off issues, and I have read on several other boards in my searches of people feeling shutdown when at 100mg and above. Its not SAFE to keep telling people that there is NO RISK of shutdown. LOW DOSES are MOST LIKELY FINE, but not specifically addressing that THERE COULD BE THE POSSIBILITY of shutdown in people at higher doses isnt very responsible either. I mean several of the original trials on SARMS medically are posted around the board if you can find the threads and they someone had even specifically HIGHLIGHTED the documented part about the risk of shut down. It said something like "at doses above 30mg in animal trials, the risks outweighed the positive effects." Risks included shutdown and other sides related to steroid use.
I just dont think its safe to go around telling everyone that its PERFECTLY SAFE and that SARMS has NO RISK OF SHUTDOWN, when its been documented and just because certain individuals havent had sides there are people on many boards including our own that had libido issues or other minor sides. I mean Im sure hoping people that are running 3 compounds of AAS for 12 weeks that dont get sides arent going around telling everyone that since they didnt have sides that anyone can and should do it with no worry. Im glad YOU didnt have any sides TRUCKDADDY and Im glad some other users havent but that doesnt mean we shouldnt mention that THERE is some RISK, whether SLIGHT or not, if its a health concern people should be aware so they can at least keep an eye on their own body and know what to look our for. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY...
I love SARMS, Im almost done my first bottle, I might even run another at 50mg ED because my vision sides came on for a couple days bad, then got better after a couple days. I attempted to run around 100mg for a couple days and I didnt feel my guys get any smaller but my libido hasnt been 100%, I have GREAT ENERGY, GREAT RECOVERY, GREAT STRENGTH, but I havent felt like "hookin up" with any of the females Im normally "hanging out" with. Im not running anything else other than LIPOSHRED STACK because I love it for energy and focus. I dont think this is MAJOR, my STUFF still works fine but the desire hasnt been there for about a week and a half, if I NEED the equipment to work it will. I am obviously keeping an eye on it, but I am having good effects for burning fat and gaining a little or saving muscle mass with my increased CARDIO right now while getting ready for Spring Basketball.
Im just saying, keep an eye on things and REMIND people that they MAY (not def will) have some sides if they decide to push 100mg or higher, thats all.
-Legacy
mrplunkey
New member
I just finished my sarms run and I'm going to do a few 500 IU shots of HCG (probably E3D) just to make sure I start back up.
My delimma will be whether to cycle test or SARMS-S4 next. I like the juicy-juice mental feeling of testosterone, but I actually prefer the more even keel I get on SARMS-S4. Also, having no bloat yet keeping that on-cycle body composition makes me look less like a gorilla in a business suit.
Chances are, I'll probably cycle more SARMS than I do test going forward.
My delimma will be whether to cycle test or SARMS-S4 next. I like the juicy-juice mental feeling of testosterone, but I actually prefer the more even keel I get on SARMS-S4. Also, having no bloat yet keeping that on-cycle body composition makes me look less like a gorilla in a business suit.
Chances are, I'll probably cycle more SARMS than I do test going forward.
