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Men & Cheating

izap1

New member
What are your views in Men and Cheating?

a. ALL males are hound dogs. There are 2 types of men: Men who cheat and Men who have not cheated YET…only because they haven’t ran across that one woman that is WORTH cheating with. True, a man’s spouse might be a lot more valuable than MOST females, until they meet another chick that will submit to his demands that the spouse was unable to satisfy. Like Chris Rock quotes “Men are about as faithful as the number of options they have”. Why do you think all celebs cheat? Because of the number of kitties that get thrown @ them left to right, they are most DEFINITELY bound to find at least 1 girl WORTH cheating with.

b. Not ALL men are cheaters. There are actually some good guys out there. A man with high moral values. A man who is strong minded enough to resist temptations no matter what the circumstances are….he may even be @ a boiling point after the fight he and I just had but he will not succumb to any other woman’s sexual advances just to ease his mind or an attempt to obscure whatever kind of problems he’s having. Thus, a real man doesn’t let his emotions guide his actions….And plus it helps that my man has dated around, been there done that, so by now he’s quite settled on what he really wants in life that he wouldn’t even RISK what we have just to bang a dime hoochie.
 
Some people cheat, some people don't and some people find out that they can do what they had not previously expected.
 
B. I also may be too young to know any better. Innocent and not bitter thus far, because although I've been cheated on ; and been hurt and lied to ; I still believe that not all men are cheaters, there are some out there that have character and value. there are not just some, but tons.
 
Any chance they cheat on YOU because you're a whiney High Maintenance PITA who thinks her pussy is lined with platinum and that the men in her life should go around kissing her ass if you are so gracious as to give them their twice yearly 20 second blow job?
 
musclemom said:
Any chance they cheat on YOU because you're a whiney High Maintenance PITA who thinks her pussy is lined with platinum and that the men in her life should go around kissing her ass if you are so gracious as to give them their twice yearly 20 second blow job?

:FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol: :FRlol:
 
I have never been a cheater. Just not wired that way. I find it difficult to just bone someone who I dont care for. Dont get me wrong I love the sex part, but just all the BS and games that go with it if your not into anything but physical relationship is not worth it and I have a hard time with.
 
musclemom said:
Any chance they cheat on YOU because you're a whiney High Maintenance PITA who thinks her pussy is lined with platinum and that the men in her life should go around kissing her ass if you are so gracious as to give them their twice yearly 20 second blow job?

You been talking to my Old Grump again?!?! :worried:
 
musclemom said:
Any chance they cheat on YOU because you're a whiney High Maintenance PITA who thinks her pussy is lined with platinum and that the men in her life should go around kissing her ass if you are so gracious as to give them their twice yearly 20 second blow job?

I just choked on my coffee.

You my dear have such a way with words.
 
velvett said:
I just choked on my coffee.

You my dear have such a way with words.
I'm sowwy :( Coffee down wrong pipe is burny.
 
lol...^ nah never been cheated on, (or NOT that I KNOW of)...But a male friend and I just had a convo about men & cheating which prompted me to make a topic lol
 
velvett said:
HA! I lost my shit about 4/5 months ago, it's around here somewhere, maybe a hound dog is what I need to sniff it out.

:idea:
Well, if you ever need more, lemme know, with 7 cats I got WAY more shit than I can handle *rim shot*
 
izap1 said:
Not ALL men are cheaters. There are actually some good guys out there. A man with high moral values. A man who is strong minded enough to resist temptations no matter what the circumstances are….he may even be @ a boiling point after the fight he and I just had but he will not succumb to any other woman’s sexual advances just to ease his mind or an attempt to obscure whatever kind of problems he’s having. Thus, a real man doesn’t let his emotions guide his actions….And plus it helps that my man has dated around, been there done that, so by now he’s quite settled on what he really wants in life that he wouldn’t even RISK what we have just to bang a dime hoochie.


this pretty much describes me ^^^^ except for the whole "real man" attitude. . .i know what works for me. . .the reasons why ,i believe, are a little complicated. . .a combination of nature and nurture, a lot of which i'm not even cognizant of. . .but i generally don't look down on other guys (or women) that haven't been able to walk down the same road as me. . .i don't claim to have "the" answer. . .i only have "my" answer. . .
 
i took a class on marriage and family so i could learn more about how relationships work and why we do the things we do... ok, through my research i found that men were not made to be with one person their entire lives but rather spread their seed to as many females as possible. i do not agree with with personally but this is the biological make up not the way WE as society made relationships out to be. marriage is a religious creation not biological. killing others is also a biological survival instinct but WE as society said it was wrong so we dont do it...well most of us dont... anyway, the ones who cheat are the ones that cant control their own biological emotions and feelings to conform to todays society standards. this is in no way condoning cheating as it is a personal choice, but it should shed some light upon the subject as to why....
 
<<<< not a cheater, I had a GF in HS that wanted to break up when I left for college, I didn't and ended up cheating. I felt bad for 20 years, finally had to ask her to forgive me. Yeah, it may be corny but she was good to me, she didn't deserve that.

A man is only as good as his word, if I say that I'm gonna do something or WON'T do something, that's the way it is. Now, flirt, yeah, sometimes I may be flirty, I guess that ol saying that if you wouldn't do it in front of her you shouldn't be doing it. But, I guess I'm not perfect either. If you have kids, that's a whole nother deal. You keep your pants zipped until the time comes that you have the kids raised and they are on their own. Then if you want to get some strange, get divorced and have at it, after the divorce. Some people have an "open" marriage, if that's a mutual agreement, fine. But that's NOT me.....
 
musclemom said:
Any chance they cheat on YOU because you're a whiney High Maintenance PITA who thinks her pussy is lined with platinum and that the men in her life should go around kissing her ass if you are so gracious as to give them their twice yearly 20 second blow job?
I love you. :heart:
 
GoldenDelicious said:
both definitions suck ass

it ALL depends on his fuckin options

i'm sure that i have plenty of "options". . .i always did before, i don't know why i wouldn't now. . .but, honestly, i'm just really fucking happy. . .and after 18+ years together (15+ married), i can't imagine anything changing that. . .if it ever blows up in my face, you guys can have a field day with me. . .until then, i'm right, you're wrong. . .period. :)
 
digimon7068 said:
i'm sure that i have plenty of "options". . .i always did before, i don't know why i wouldn't now. . .but, honestly, i'm just really fucking happy. . .and after 18+ years together (15+ married), i can't imagine anything changing that. . .if it ever blows up in my face, you guys can have a field day with me. . .until then, i'm right, you're wrong. . .period. :)
if you didnt have options before, then you wouldnt be so secure, and therefore, unlikely to be so happy

most of the time peopel are going to cheat out of either boredom or a need for validation - having lots of options all the way thorugh neatly takes care of both.
 
GoldenDelicious said:
both definitions suck ass

it ALL depends on his fuckin options


ahh yes, GD"s "High value" hypothesis redux..........:lmao:


My views on this are simple........men and women will both cheat if they're not with their soulmates. People aren't honest with each other anymore so relationship issues fester and than their lives are so enmeshed it's not easy to disengange and so people think a little cheating "here and there" to get me by isn't so bad, right?? I"m glad it's more acceptable now to divorce. Used to be people, especially women, were so looked down upon for being divorced that they stuck it in a shit marriage. Those people were cheating dogs, bet your ass.

Me, I'd rather get a divorce or break up than cheat on someone.......empathy is a bitch that way.


And LMAO at musclemom........good god this woman rocks out. :lmao:
 
GoldenDelicious said:
if you didnt have options before, then you wouldnt be so secure, and therefore, unlikely to be so happy

most of the time peopel are going to cheat out of either boredom or a need for validation - having lots of options all the way thorugh neatly takes care of both.

that is the EXACT opposite of what you said originally which was. . .men are only as faithful as their options. . .or at least that's what i got from it. . .

GD speakum with forked tongue. . .
 
digimon7068 said:
that is the EXACT opposite of what you said originally which was. . .men are only as faithful as their options. . .or at least that's what i got from it. . .

GD speakum with forked tongue. . .
no. i just added a temporal element.
 
Posts like this annoy the shit out of me, whether it's a man asking why women cheat or women asking why men cheat, they get under my fucking skin. It's about making generalizations, which is just sloppy thinking, and it shows a LACK of thought, because the problem isn't that complicated.

People cheat because one or more need is not being met in their current relationship but they aren't ready to discard some security they find in the relationship or face a fear about ending the relationship. Period. No other reason. You can bring up different scenarios, but strip it down to where the rubber hits the road and you're looking at SOMEONE needs SOMETHING that their S/O ain't giving them. The security or fear can range from fear of losing the partner's income to fear of losing access to the children or not wanting to pay child support.
 
Most men will cheat on a partner at some point in their lives, however that doesn't make them all 'bad', it just means they're human, it's all the little grey areas in life that make it interesting.
 
musclemom said:
Posts like this annoy the shit out of me, whether it's a man asking why women cheat or women asking why men cheat, they get under my fucking skin. It's about making generalizations, which is just sloppy thinking, and it shows a LACK of thought, because the problem isn't that complicated.

People cheat because one or more need is not being met in their current relationship but they aren't ready to discard some security they find in the relationship or face a fear about ending the relationship. Period. No other reason. You can bring up different scenarios, but strip it down to where the rubber hits the road and you're looking at SOMEONE needs SOMETHING that their S/O ain't giving them. The security or fear can range from fear of losing the partner's income to fear of losing access to the children or not wanting to pay child support.


+1

I agree... It is about needs/wants that aren't being met.

However, in regards to men I would say most men cheat sometime in thier life... Doesn't mean they always will. Also, this doesn't mean that all men do cheat. There are "good" guys out there that will be faithful and will never cheat either because of a lack of options or by choice.

In the end I think a big portion has to do with A: Self Control, and B: Respect for your partner.



Oh ya... 1 more thing.... 100 post WOOT Im such a :newbie:
 
Posts like this annoy the shit out of me, whether it's a man asking why women cheat or women asking why men cheat, they get under my fucking skin. It's about making generalizations, which is just sloppy thinking, and it shows a LACK of thought, because the problem isn't that complicated.

People cheat because one or more need is not being met in their current relationship but they aren't ready to discard some security they find in the relationship or face a fear about ending the relationship. Period. No other reason. You can bring up different scenarios, but strip it down to where the rubber hits the road and you're looking at SOMEONE needs SOMETHING that their S/O ain't giving them. The security or fear can range from fear of losing the partner's income to fear of losing access to the children or not wanting to pay child support.

you getting some k for that.............It really is that simple.
 
velvett said:
Some people cheat, some people don't and some people find out that they can do what they had not previously expected.

this applies not only to cheating but to all things morally questionable.
 
bigmann245 said:
i took a class on marriage and family so i could learn more about how relationships work and why we do the things we do... ok, through my research i found that men were not made to be with one person their entire lives but rather spread their seed to as many females as possible. i do not agree with with personally but this is the biological make up not the way WE as society made relationships out to be. marriage is a religious creation not biological. killing others is also a biological survival instinct but WE as society said it was wrong so we dont do it...well most of us dont... anyway, the ones who cheat are the ones that cant control their own biological emotions and feelings to conform to todays society standards. this is in no way condoning cheating as it is a personal choice, but it should shed some light upon the subject as to why....

That old hypothesis based on a misinterpretion of 'survival of the fittest' has been dragged out so many times as evidence, but it has come under criticism with modern research.

If that was the case, then it would be true for all the male species of mammals, and even more true for even more 'primitive' species, but its not.

There are animals that pair-bond for life.

The most monogamous creatures on the planet are (ok this is memory), the prairie vole, or red vole.

The dopamine reward system in the brain is highly linked to the emotional part of the brain, the amgydala in these creatures.

Humans show the same thing.

There is other evidence for pair-bonding for life, I would have to go back and find the papers I read.

But basically, that old chestnut, null and void.

I would also suggest you do some reading on altruism, as killing each other is not a biological imperative either.
 
GoldenDelicious said:
why? you dont like thinking much?

nah. . .i was merely employing a form of humor known as self-deprecation. . .i was acting like i wasn't smart enuff to understand the esoteric words that you were using. . .the next time i try to be funny, i'll be sure and bring it down to your level. . .m'kay??
 
^lol @ digim

Hey Tatyana, if you would be kind enough to post those articles regarding life long pair-bonding....It'll be very much appreciated =)
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I have never been a cheater. Just not wired that way. I find it difficult to just bone someone who I dont care for. Dont get me wrong I love the sex part, but just all the BS and games that go with it if your not into anything but physical relationship is not worth it and I have a hard time with.

you're not alone dude.

i have a hard time applying effort for someone who's not worth it. fuck..even not applying effort. just doesn't appeal to me
 
izap1 said:
What are your views in Men and Cheating?

a. ALL males are hound dogs. There are 2 types of men: Men who cheat and Men who have not cheated YET…only because they haven’t ran across that one woman that is WORTH cheating with. True, a man’s spouse might be a lot more valuable than MOST females, until they meet another chick that will submit to his demands that the spouse was unable to satisfy. Like Chris Rock quotes “Men are about as faithful as the number of options they have”. Why do you think all celebs cheat? Because of the number of kitties that get thrown @ them left to right, they are most DEFINITELY bound to find at least 1 girl WORTH cheating with.

b. Not ALL men are cheaters. There are actually some good guys out there. A man with high moral values. A man who is strong minded enough to resist temptations no matter what the circumstances are….he may even be @ a boiling point after the fight he and I just had but he will not succumb to any other woman’s sexual advances just to ease his mind or an attempt to obscure whatever kind of problems he’s having. Thus, a real man doesn’t let his emotions guide his actions….And plus it helps that my man has dated around, been there done that, so by now he’s quite settled on what he really wants in life that he wouldn’t even RISK what we have just to bang a dime hoochie.

People, with their own biases and agendas in check - love to generalize in this area. ALL men cheat! or ALL women cheat!

These douchebags don't know, if someone cheats - dump their ass. But do they? Nope.

And then they continue to blame the other side. What the fuck do you expect - idiots.

"But he loves me.." -- "I love her tight ass, i'm going to kick his ass and she will never cheat on me forever".

People are really retarded in this area - which is why I rarely give a shit when people have a relationship problems. When you get hit by a car, and now on life support - I'll care.

r
 
drsketch said:
sleeping with multiple partners is human nature.... Women do it too just don't publicize it as much.


I don't think that's true, we may be mammals but I'd like to think that we have a bit more impulse control that our fellow animals.
 
If that was the case, then it would be true for all the male species of mammals, and even more true for even more 'primitive' species, but its not.

There are animals that pair-bond for life.

The most monogamous creatures on the planet are (ok this is memory), the prairie vole, or red vole.

The dopamine reward system in the brain is highly linked to the emotional part of the brain, the amgydala in these creatures.

Humans show the same thing.

There is other evidence for pair-bonding for life, I would have to go back and find the papers I read.

True............. but MOST male species are like what bigmann said
 
izap1 said:
^lol @ digim

Hey Tatyana, if you would be kind enough to post those articles regarding life long pair-bonding....It'll be very much appreciated =)

OH my memory, all of my 'fun' reading is stuff like New Scientist and Scientific American :)

I read most of them in paper copies of New Scientist, which I don't have on-line access to full articles.

Here is the start of one.

This is one of the big things, people confuse their biological wiring with love, and there are people who are 'addicted' to the chemical rush of 'falling in love' which is entirely different than 'being in love'.


I will come back with a few more


Love is the drug
23 November 2002
Maia Szalavitz
Magazine issue 2370
SONGWRITERS frequently compare love and addiction. Addicts compare wanting drugs to wanting sex. And scientists who study addiction are now beginning to agree with both.

Stimulants like cocaine act on the brain's dopamine system, and so mimic the thrill of desire and anticipation. Depressant drugs like heroin, on the other hand, produce the opposite kind of pleasure - a dreamy satiation and freedom from pain, caused by their action on the brain's opioid system.

A speedball, a cocktail of cocaine and heroin, can be likened to a rapid, hyped-up sex simulation, moving rapidly from desire to climax. Because of this powerful ability to simulate the most intense thrills, it is often said that drugs can hijack the brain's pleasure, reward and motivation systems, leaving addicts overwhelmed by craving for the drug, and willing to do anything for their next fix.

It's racy parallels like these that have led a few ...
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg17623704.800
 
velvett said:
I don't think that's true, we may be mammals but I'd like to think that we have a bit more impulse control that our fellow animals.

exactly. . .keeping it in my pants is one of the few. . .the very few (truth be told). . .things that separates me from the apes swinging in the trees (no offense puddle). . .
 
musclemom said:
Any chance they cheat on YOU because you're a whiney High Maintenance PITA who thinks her pussy is lined with platinum and that the men in her life should go around kissing her ass if you are so gracious as to give them their twice yearly 20 second blow job?


Not starting any shit here, but didn't you cheat on your first husband?
 
I think just taking the one bit of sexual selection, that men need to spread their seed, is just far too simplistic, and it a gross mis-interpretation of evolutionary biology.

If you are a Christian and don't believe in evolution, then using any of these evolutionary arguments to justify 'males just naturally want to shag about' is a non-starter.

I will be watching out for you :)


http://technology.newscientist.com/article/mg12517003.800
DARWIN'S theory of natural selection explained, at a single blow, the evolution of all sorts of adaptations that enhance an animal's ability to survive. But he was puzzled by behaviours and anatomical features that do nothing to increase survival, and that may even hamper it. Darwin concluded that features such as the peacock's tail and the Irish elk's antlers, characteristics usually sported only by males, evolve by a different process, which he called sexual selection. His idea was that these characters evolve because individuals possessing them acquire more mates than their competitors of the same sex. Darwin suggested that sexual selection favours the evolution of such characters in two ways. The most obvious is direct competition among males for mates, involving aggressive clashes of horns and antlers. A more subtle mechanism is the preference of females for certain males as mates - the peacock with the biggest, glossiest tail feathers, say. The males that succeed in competition and are most attractive to females acquire more mates and sire more offspring than less successful or less well-endowed males.

In developing his theory of sexual selection, Darwin realised that males tend to court females and compete with their rivals, while females are coy and choosy when it comes to reproduction. However, he was unaware of the biological reason for this common difference between the sexes. Our understanding of this aspect of sexual selection came 100 years after Darwin published The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex, thanks to the work of Robert Trivers of the University of California at Santa Cruz. Trivers argued that, although both sexes attempt to pass as many copies of their genes to the next generation as possible, females and males have evolved different tactics to achieve this same end.

Typically, a female produces much larger and many fewer eggs than a male produces sperm. A female has only a limited number of eggs available for fertilisation during an episode of reproduction, and so she has little to gain from mating with many males; a single mating may provide a female with all the sperm she needs. However, a female may gain an advantage by being choosy about which male she allows to fertilise her eggs, preferring, say, a genetically superior male or one likely to be a good father. The situation is just the reverse for a male, whose genetic contribution to the next generation is limited largely by the number of eggs he can fertilise. For males, the optimal tactic for passing on genes is to mate with as many females as possible.

So in general, males gain more from indiscriminate and frequent mating than do females. Darwin's theory of sexual selection does not predict that males should choose mates; indeed, we may even predict that they will not do this, given that choosing a mate from an array of potential partners takes time and effort which could be spent doing other things, such as acquiring further partners. If males have opportunities for mating several times, any benefit to being choosy could be outweighed by the cost of missed opportunities for further matings. Yet evidence is growing that males of many species may invest heavily in each mating episode in a way that decreases their ability to invest effectively in further matings. Under this circumstance, the cost-benefit balance may favour males who choose their mates. A number of factors, acting alone or in combination, may cause such a shift by limiting opportunities for males to mate many times.

Received wisdom has it that males can produce almost limitless supplies of sperm. While it is certainly true that males produce more sperm than females produce eggs, biologists are now discovering that ejaculates, spermatophores or even spermatozoa themselves are in limited supply. This seems to be true in organisms as diverse as insects, fishes, amphibians, birds and mammals. For example, males of many species of salamander living in temperate regions produce mature sperm between, but not during, mating seasons. Thus, a male begins each season with a fixed amount of sperm that he has to partition between spermatophores, which in turn are partitioned among mating partners. Supplies are limited even in species in which males are constantly producing sperm. In rats, the sperm counts and ejaculate volumes decline as the frequency of copulation increases, and a female is less likelyto become pregnant if her partner has already ejaculated KK several times. Even if numbers of sperm are not severelylimited, males may need time between successive matings in order to re-synthesise the various components that form the medium in which sperm are transferred. In salamanders, this period of recovery lasts as long as three days.

As Darwin recognised, it is usually the male, not the female, that invests time and energy in advertising or searching for mates. Such investment limits the amount of time left for other activities, such as feeding. Attracting females can also be costly in terms of energy. For example, male frogs andtoads that call to attract females may lose weight during thebreeding season.

An advertising or searching male pays the greatest cost if he encounters a predator or parasite rather than a mate.
A rather bizarre example of this occurs in certain male fireflies that produce bioluminescent flashes to seek out females. When a female of the male's species sees his flash, she signals her presence by flashing back and this may lead to mating. Females of other, predatory species, however, also respond by flashing to males. As James Lloyd of the University of Florida at Gainesville has found, such firefly 'femmes fatales' devour males attracted to them. The combined costs in terms of energy expended and the risk of predation are considerable in many species. These costs may severely reduce a male's chance of mating many times.

Males may transfer more than just sperm to females at the time of mating. In many insects and some birds, females accept males as mates only if the males offer them an item of food, known as a nuptial gift. Collecting such a gift may be as hazardous for males as searching for a female. For example, male scorpion flies are allowed to mate successfully only if they offer females large, palatable nuptial gifts of insect prey; females rely heavily on nuptial gifts as they do little hunting for themselves. Males searching for such gifts may, however, become entangled in the webs of predatory spiders. In many insects, the ejaculates or spermatophores of males contain energy-rich nutrients as well as sperm. Experiments with radioactively labelled spermatophores have demonstrated that females use these nutrients in the production of eggs. In many butterflies, males can acquire these nutrients only during their lives as larvae. The non-renewable nature of these materials may limit further mating opportunities for males. And, even if the nutrients are renewable, males may need time between matings to replenish their supplies.

Beauty and the beast

So males of many species often experience heavy costs associated with mating. How might they be choosy in their mates? A preference for females that appear to be free of disease might benefit a male in several ways. In a direct manner, choosy males may avoid becoming infected with a disease themselves. Less directly, females infected with disease-causing organisms may be less fertile, produce fewer offspring, or be less competent as mothers as a consequence of their infection.

Animals may also enhance their offspring's chances by opting for partners that strike them as slightly unfamiliar. As is well known to animal breeders, offspring produced by close relatives in species which normally do not inbreed are frequently inferior to offspring produced by less-closely related partners. Animals in natural populations avoid this effect, known as inbreeding depression, in a number of different ways. Relatives of one sex may tend to move away and reproduce some distance away from the other sex, so reducing the average degree of relatedness between mates. With some exceptions, females disperse from their natal groups among birds, while males are the main dispersers in mammals.

Even when animals do not disperse, they may avoid inbreeding by choosing unrelated or novel partners. For example, in wild horses, females usually leave the harems into which they are born. But in those cases where females do not leave but reach maturity in the presence of male relatives, fathers and even stepfathers are unlikely to attempt to mate with their daughters and stepdaughters. Familiarity leads to disinterest at the time of mating.

In many species of fishes, birds and mammals, the growing young learn the key characters that are typical of the species to which they belong, a process known as sexual imprinting. For example, in a brood of mallard ducks, males learn the characteristic plumage of females of their species from their mother and sisters. Female chicks cannot learn the plumage typical of the male, because their father is not present and their brothers possess juvenile, not adult, plumage. Early learning ensures that, when mature male mallards attempt to copulate they do so only with females of their own species. Another type of learning during early family life may ensure that the young learn to discriminate their kin from unrelated individuals. In some species, such early experience greatly influences later preferences for mates. Japanese quail, for instance, prefer partners who are neither too closely related nor completely unrelated; both males and females prefer first cousins as partners. Such a preference leads to what Patrick Bateson of the University of Cambridge has called 'optimal outbreeding', and results in a balance between the harmful consequences of inbreeding and harmful effects that might happen if excessive outbreeding disrupts complexes of genes that confer adaptation to particular local environments.

Males can also choose females in an attempt to ensure their paternity. Females may mate several times to replenish exhausted sperm supplies or to obtain nutrients which males transfer at mating. But this creates a quandary for males: it can lead to a situation known as sperm competition, in which sperm from several males compete in the female's reproductive tract for fertilisation of the eggs. Geoffrey Parker of the University of Liverpool has suggested that such sperm competition is a potent force in the evolution of the mating tactics of males, each struggling to ensure that his sperm will fertilise a female's eggs.

One such tactic on the part of males is to mate preferentially with females that have not mated previously. In many butterflies, males spend more time courting females that are both young and large. Young females are unlikely to have already mated, and larger ones bear more eggs for fertilisation than smaller females. Males assess the age of females by the amount of wear on their wings, which increases as females age. In some mites, a preference for unmated females has led to a curious mating tactic in which males guard immature females, mating with them once the nymphs develop into mature females. Such guarding represents a considerable investment of time, decreasing the number of females with which a male can mate over time. To minimise this investment, males preferentially guard those female nymphs that are closestto maturity.

Male preferences for unmated over mated females have been explored intensively among rodents studied in captivity by Donald Dewsbury and his colleagues at the University of Florida at Gainesville. Male prairie voles are more discriminating than male montane voles; the prairie voles spend more time investigating and copulating with unmated females. This species difference in male preference seems to be related to differences in the extent to which males invest in reproduction. Prairie voles appear to live as monogamous pairs in nature, while montane voles are more promiscuous. That male prairie voles should be more discriminating is not surprising as monogamy self-evidently reduces opportunities for multiple mating. In addition, preferring an unmated female increases the chances that a male prairie vole will invest paternally in his own offspring, not those of another male.

In promiscuous species in which males and females remain together only for as long as it takes to mate, males gain little by mating repeatedly with the same partner. Indeed, such matings are likely to be costly, if only because they take time to complete, time that could be spent pursuing other females. In many species, a male apparently loses interest in a female once he has mated with her. This is not because the male is unable to mate again, for if he is given a novel female, he will resume sexual activity. This effect of novel females has long been exploited by breeders of cattle, where, for example, bulls will maintain high rates of ejaculation if presented with a succession of different females. This phenomenon is known as the Coolidge effect after an American president, Calvin Coolidge. The story goes that, on a visit to the chicken house of a government farm, Mrs Coolidge asked the farm manager how many times a rooster mates. When told that roosters mate dozens of times a day, Mrs Coolidge asked the manager to tell her husband of the males' prodigious ability. When asked by President Coolidge if the cocks were exposed to the same females, the manager told him that different females were used. 'Tell that to my wife,' said President Coolidge. Whether this story is true or not, a consequence of the Coolidge effect is that the male distributes his sperm (and his genes) over a number of different females.

Dewsbury recently analysed the published literature on the Coolidge effect. His critical review suggests that the effects of novelty depend very much on how the animals were tested in the laboratory. He also found a great deal of variability among species in the ability of novel females to reawaken the mating behaviour of males. Dewsbury and his colleagues suggest that such variation may reflect differing opportunities for males to mate repeatedly in the wild. Species that form monogamous pairs have no need for the Coolidge effect, as opportunities for multiple matings will obviously be limited. In preliminary studies, Dewsbury and his colleagues have found more evidence for this view. The novelty of females has no effect on the mating behaviour of males in old field mice and prairie voles, believed to be monogamous species. But the Coolidge effect does seem to operate in deer mice, montane voles, meadow voles and rice rats, all of which are more promiscuous in their mating habits.

Better understood is the effect of cycles of female sexual responsiveness on the mating tactics of males. In mammals, mating is most likely to result in fertilisation and conception at the peak of the oestrous cycle, a phase known as oestrus. Females may signal when they are in oestrus in a number of ways, and males respond by altering their attentions. In troops of savanna baboon of Africa, for instance, studied by Glenn Hausfater of the University of Missouri, the most socially dominant males express sexual interest only in females that signal they are in oestrus by changes in the degree of swelling in their sexual skin. Top males tolerate matings by less dominant males in the troop except on the crucial day of the cycle, at which time the most dominant male is most likely to consort with the female. This preference ensures that the alpha male mates at the time in the oestrous cycle when fertilisation is most likely.

Males may also choose females on the basis of their reproductive powers. In many primate species, older females who have already produced offspring are more successful in future reproductive attempts than adolescent females or young females who have not yet produced young, and males frequently prefer such older, experienced females. For example, adult males in wild groups of chacma baboons ignore sexual invitations from adolescent females, but will mate readily with older females. Female size, amount of body fat, size of the sexual swelling on the rump or even the appearance of the nipples may be signals that males use to assess female age and past reproductive performance.

Even if all of the females in a population are equally fertile, they may vary in 'fecundity' - in the number of offspring they can produce during any one reproductive episode. In many insects, fishes and amphibians, the volume of a female's body cavity constrains the number of eggs she can produce. In general, a large body can hold more eggs than a small body. A preference for larger, more fecund females is perhaps the most common manifestation of mate choice among males of many insects, and in a number of fishes and aphibians.

In some species of fish, especially those that live in coastal or fresh waters, the male not only selects the spawning site but also protects the developing embryos. Because these males invest time and energy in caring for the young, it makes sense that they should often prefer larger, more fecund females. But despite their paternal attentions, males may still be able to engage in further matings while they have embryos. Indeed, for male sticklebacks defending especially good territories, the presence of eggs may make them even more attractive to females. Pipefish are close relatives of the sea horses, and in both groups, males care for the offspring, nursing their young in a brood pouch and transferring nutrients to them. Like the stickleback, male pipefish prefer larger females, but their opportunities for multiple mating may be constrained by the size of the pouch in which embryos develop.

Male preference for larger females may result in a pattern of mating described as 'size-assortative'. In this pattern, large males tend to be paired with large females, small males with small females. Mark Ridley, then at the University of Cambridge, suggested that this pattern of mating is most likely when large females are more fecund, large males are better competitors than smaller males and when pairs remain together for some time. Size-assortative pairing has been described in many arthropods, such as the freshwater shrimp Asellus. In this crustacean, males physically guard females until they moult; only then is fertilisation possible. Male Asellus not only prefer larger, more fecund females as mates, but also prefer females which are closest to moulting, thus decreasing the amount of time they invest in each mating episode. Because only large males can compete successfully for preferred females, mating patterns are size-assortative.

Mating opportunities may be limited when males provide care to their offspring, perhaps because they simply are unable to gain access to other females, or because females find these males unattractive. In species in which both the male and female provide care for their offspring, males may choose mates on the competence of their partner as a mother. In the higher vertebrates, monogamy - a more-or-less permanent bond between individual males and females - is most common among birds; over 90 per cent of subfamilies of birds are apparently monogamous. North American pinyon jays form monogamous pairs in which the male invests heavily in his offspring. A complex system of mating preferences exists in both sexes. Males prefer larger, old females that are probably experienced breeders. Such a preference is likely to be advantageous as it may lead to early breeding. Complex patterns of mate choice also exist in the feral pigeon, in which both the male and female care for offspring. Nancy Burley of the University of Illinois at Champaign found that both sexes are choosy concerning mates, although females are choosier than males. Plumage colour, age and breeding experience are important criteria for both sexes.

In monogamous birds, reproductive performance tends to improve as the members of a pair gain greater experience of one another over several seasons. In the kittiwake gull, for example, retention of the same mate from one breeding season to the next results in a 12 per cent increase in the number of chicks fledged per pair. 'Divorce' in kittiwakes is most common after a previous breeding attempt has failed. But the extent to which males of this species actively choose to stay with mates is uncertain, for the territorial behaviour of males at the nesting colony severely reduces the number of females to choose from.

So we see that mate choice of females by males is not uncommon in the animal kingdom. It seems to occur wherever the benefits to being choosy outweigh the costs, a situation that is most likely when males have limited opportunities for multiple mating. The best evidence for the existence of choosy males has come from experimental studies in the laboratory where researchers controlled for the effects of female choice and competition among males. But detecting mate choice by males in nature is likely to be no easy task.

To complicate the task, the expression of male mate choice, even in a single species, may vary in both time and space. For instance, Darryl Gwynne of the University of Toronto found in a study of Mormon crickets that at low densities, males compete fiercely for females and show no evidence of choosing mates. But when population densities of the crickets are high, males prefer more fecund females. The balance shifts to favour male choice because at high densities food tends to be scarce, so nutrients transferred in male spermatophores become very important to females. Indeed, in such circumstances females compete with one another for access to males and their nutritious spermatophores.

Darwin was not wrong when he characterised males as competitive and females as choosy. But we now know that males can and do mate preferentially with certain females when the time and place are right.

* * *

How do humans choose their mates?

THE FACT that human beings neither mate nor marry at random has attracted considerable attention from sociologists, psychologists, anthropologists and biologists. Attempts to understand the decisions and choices that underlie human attraction and marriage fall broadly into one of two approaches which I call 'psychosocial' and 'sociobiological'.

The psychosocial approach typically seeks to determine the extent to which partners match on a number of sociological, psychological and physical measures. In general, similarities between partners are more common than differences. Partners tend to resemble one another in age, height, weight, eye colour, overall physical attractiveness and even the length of their ear lobes. Ethnic background, religious affiliation, educational background, opinions about current affairs and a variety of personality scores also tend to be similar. There is even evidence for similarity between spouses in psychiatric disturbances, such as schizophrenia. Of course, not all of these characters are truly independent of one another; tall people tend to be heavier, and members of a certain ethnic background often share religious affiliation.

Do men and women choose similar qualities in their partners? In a study designed to answer this question, men and women were asked to rank certain characteristics of a potential partner from most to least preferred. Both men and women agreed that characteristics such as honesty, kindness and understanding are most desirable. Women gave a higher ranking to good earning capacity than did men, whereas the reverse was true for physical attractiveness. One large-scale study of married couples found that attractive women are often married to men with higher incomes.

The extent to which similarities between partners represent the results of a choice of mate is unclear in many studies. For example, partners in long-term relationships may appear similar due to convergence in certain personality traits over time. In addition, similarity may reflect a limited choice due to the spatial distribution of members of the opposite sex. For example, one study found that the average distance between the birth place of husband and wife and the place where they were married was only 177 kilometres. Finally, in societies in which marriages are arranged, similarities between spouses may reflect decisions taken by family members rather than by the spouses themselves.

The psychosocial approach to the study of mate choice outlined above has been criticised because it often regards choice as a rather static event, in which more-or-less instantaneous decisions are made based on some certain characteristic, or set of characteristics. Another, and perhaps more realistic, way of looking at mate choice is to treat it as a dynamic process in which partners communicate and negotiate to produce a desirable relationship. Studies in which the choice of mates is seen as a dynamic process have revealed that similarities and differences between partners are often highly complex, can vary from couple to couple and can change over time as relationships mature.

The sociobiological approach is championed most fervently by Edward Wilson of Harvard University in Boston and is based on the belief that human social behaviour has evolved in the same way as that of other animals, and for the same reasons. Many sociobiologists start by predicting howindividual humans should behave in orderto maximise their survival and reproductive success. Then, the researchers examine human social behaviour to see if what they observe matches what they had predicted. Sociobiologists believe that our genes bias our sexual behaviour so that we act in ways that increase our reproductive success.

Much has been written both for and against the sociobiological approach to human behaviour, and many workers have attempted to understand human reproductive tactics in the light of Darwin's theory of sexual selection. In its simplest (and most naive) form, sociobiology predicts that women will be choosy concerning who they accept as mates, preferring and remaining faithful to the men who control the resources they need to rear their children successfully. Men are predicted to compete among one another to obtain both women and the resources they require, and promiscuously father as many children as they can.

From the point of view of the human male, we can make sociobiological speculations a little more realistic. Because men do invest in their offspring and may sacrifice opportunities to mate with many females in order to be good providers, we might predict that men will exercise some degree of mate choice. Sexual jealousy in men and the high value placed on female virginity in many societies (and its associated trappings, such as veiling and infibulation) can be interpreted as manifestations of male preference for women that bring with them a high certainty of paternity. Marriage itself can be seen as a tactic by which men sequester women to control their sexuality and guard them from the attentions of other men and the risk of infidelity.


As sociobiologists, we might predict that men should not only prefer virgins, but also women of high fertility. The behaviour of the Kipsigis tribe of Kenya appears to fulfil this prediction; in that society men must make a payment to a woman's family before marriage (in a cross-cultural survey of 860 human societies, a man or his family pays for a wife in almost 70 per cent). Kipsigis men pay the highest amounts for women who reach puberty early, and these women produce more surviving children over their lifetimes than do women who reach puberty at later ages.

Yet the fact that aspects of human sexual behaviour match the predictions of sociobiological theory does not mean that this approach is correct. Often the theory rests on scientifically untested (and sometimes untestable) assumptions and, because of its evolutionary nature, depends on unknowable facts about the lives of our ancestors. It is true that we should not deny the evolutionary heritage behind our behaviour. But it is also true that, no matter how plausible evolutionary explanations about human behaviour may be, they require the same rigorous scientific treatment as is given to any other type of explanation. In human sexuality, our biological heritage as well as more recent cultural factors are likely to interact in complex and fascinating ways.

Dr Paul Verrell is an ethologist at the University of Chicago.
 
jnevin said:
Not starting any shit here, but didn't you cheat on your first husband?
Yes. A situation of my emotional, financial and psychological needs not being met and my staying because of security and fear issues. I've discussed it ad nauseum in this forum. I didn't leave him because of fear (he's huge and mentally unstable and a narcissistic pig) and financial security issues. The day I made enough money to support myself and my child I was out of there. I am still with the man I had the affair with and we celebrated our 7th year wedding anniversary this year.
 
musclemom said:
Yes. A situation of my emotional, financial and psychological needs not being met and my staying because of security and fear issues. I've discussed it ad nauseum in this forum. I didn't leave him because of fear (he's huge and mentally unstable and a narcissistic pig) and financial security issues. The day I made enough money to support myself and my child I was out of there. I am still with the man I had the affair with and we celebrated our 7th year wedding anniversary this year.


CONGRATS on the 7year aniv, !!!!
 
musclemom said:
Yes. A situation of my emotional, financial and psychological needs not being met and my staying because of security and fear issues. I've discussed it ad nauseum in this forum. I didn't leave him because of fear (he's huge and mentally unstable and a narcissistic pig) and financial security issues. The day I made enough money to support myself and my child I was out of there. I am still with the man I had the affair with and we celebrated our 7th year wedding anniversary this year.

There are a lot of men here who would punch you in the face or spit on you for cheating on your man. Personally, I don't care - because of society's double-standard on this issue. Men are glorified, women scorned.

r
 
caught.jpg
 
Not all men cheat, and if by chance they do then they wont necessarily do it again.
Men are made out to look like pigs and what not, but they aren't. As much credit as I give to them, I shouldn't cause all men suck LOL. But the point I am getting at is that men are just like woman..They have certain needs that they emotionally need, and when not met they will wander..However, men that open them selves up to the type of behavior such as looking at every woman that walks by, strip clubs, and shit like that are 10 times more likely to cheat as they are subjecting themselves to the normal lustful nature.
Men are just as much to blame as woman when it comes to cheating, and they do it for similar reasons. No particular sex is worse than the other, etc....
 
Angel said:
Not all men cheat, and if by chance they do then they wont necessarily do it again.
Men are made out to look like pigs and what not, but they aren't. As much credit as I give to them, I shouldn't cause all men suck LOL. But the point I am getting at is that men are just like woman..They have certain needs that they emotionally need, and when not met they will wander..However, men that open them selves up to the type of behavior such as looking at every woman that walks by, strip clubs, and shit like that are 10 times more likely to cheat as they are subjecting themselves to the normal lustful nature.
Men are just as much to blame as woman when it comes to cheating, and they do it for similar reasons. No particular sex is worse than the other, etc....


they have needs - but I dunno about them being emotional :D
 
cindylou said:
they have needs - but I dunno about them being emotional :D
Might as well be emotional..Think about it for a sec. A man does not receive oral from their other half, he does not get home cooked meals or a clean house, his wife stops giving sex all together..Men sum that up as "I am macho man, hear me roar"..But deep down that is part of their emotions.
 
In addition to the needs that aren't being meet the keeps comming up, POOR COMMUNICATION also plays a large roll. If the guy isn't big into communicating emotion or needs that just makes cheating more likely because they are less likely to tell their partner what they are missing giving their partner no chance to make an effort.(IMO)

I know this isn't always the case, some guys are very good at expressing their feelings... :rainbow:
 
I have never cheated on any of my GFs. I have been cheated on by two different GFs that I know of, both times were with so called friends of mine. I don't understand why the women in my life always end up doing me wrong. I am a nice guy and i treat everyone well. Maybe that is the problem? I have given up on serious relationships for the time being. At least with girls my age (~25). Now I am all about hunting the ever elusive cougar. Older women love my game and they are usually after one thing. We get along well. lol
 
Excusing cheating by saying men have a biological urge to "spread their seed" is like excusing a woman intentionally skipping her birth control because she has a "biological urge to get pregnant."

They're both bullshit cop outs.
 
B

Some women and some men are absolute dogs. Some only cheat once. Some would never cheat. You just have to find one of the good ones.
 
Razorguns said:
There are a lot of men here who would punch you in the face or spit on you for cheating on your man. Personally, I don't care - because of society's double-standard on this issue. Men are glorified, women scorned.

r
Well, first of all, anyone ever laid a hand on me, ever again, I'll hand them their fucking asses, and that's no lie.

And the truth of the matter is if my man had been a real "MAN" and a general overall decent human being the conditions wouldn't have arisen that I fell out of love with him. I never looked at another man until I lost all trust and respect for my ex. It got to the point where being around my husband left me emotionally desolate, the man made me feel that undesirable and he constantly lied to me. I didn't leave him, he threw me away and when he realized what he was losing he crawled after me and by then it was just too fucking late, I just didn't give a shit anymore.
 
musclemom said:
And the truth of the matter is if my man had been a real "MAN" and a general overall decent human being the conditions wouldn't have arisen that I fell out of love with him. I never looked at another man until I lost all trust and respect for my ex. It got to the point where being around my husband left me emotionally desolate, the man made me feel that undesirable and he constantly lied to me. I didn't leave him, he threw me away and when he realized what he was losing he crawled after me and by then it was just too fucking late, I just didn't give a shit anymore.


That was my reason, but according to some, we are still low life cheating whores.
 
nefertiti said:
Excusing cheating by saying men have a biological urge to "spread their seed" is like excusing a woman intentionally skipping her birth control because she has a "biological urge to get pregnant."

They're both bullshit cop outs.


i said its not an excuse my lord please read what i wrote.... yes women do have a biological want for having children and yes it happens that women skip their pill to get pregnant.... it happens... but in our society WE put the rules in the mix not nature... im just telling you all what i researched i dont believe in cheating and could never do it. not even in high school when i had a clear chance to.... its just not me. but some men cant fight the urge to go elsewhere..
 
blueta2 said:
That was my reason, but according to some, we are still low life cheating whores.

Next time, break up with the guy, THEN cheat. There are two mixed messages in this thread. People cheat = suck, People cheat = have reasons. Which is why double standards are so easy to create here.

r
 
Razorguns said:
Next time, break up with the guy, THEN cheat. There are two mixed messages in this thread. People cheat = suck, People cheat = have reasons. Which is why double standards are so easy to create here.

r


it was a one shot deal, there won't be a next time
 
Razorguns said:
Next time, break up with the guy, THEN cheat. There are two mixed messages in this thread. People cheat = suck, People cheat = have reasons. Which is why double standards are so easy to create here.

r

If you break up, it's not cheating :)

When people cheat, it is usually out of fulfilling some emotionally empty/dead space in them.

No difference between cheating, sticking a needle in your arm, stuffing a cheesecake down your throat, going out and getting hammered everynight, they are all just coping mechanisms that don't address the real issue.
 
izap1 said:
What are your views in Men and Cheating?

a. ALL males are hound dogs. There are 2 types of men: Men who cheat and Men who have not cheated YET…only because they haven’t ran across that one woman that is WORTH cheating with. True, a man’s spouse might be a lot more valuable than MOST females, until they meet another chick that will submit to his demands that the spouse was unable to satisfy. Like Chris Rock quotes “Men are about as faithful as the number of options they have”. Why do you think all celebs cheat? Because of the number of kitties that get thrown @ them left to right, they are most DEFINITELY bound to find at least 1 girl WORTH cheating with.

b. Not ALL men are cheaters. There are actually some good guys out there. A man with high moral values. A man who is strong minded enough to resist temptations no matter what the circumstances are….he may even be @ a boiling point after the fight he and I just had but he will not succumb to any other woman’s sexual advances just to ease his mind or an attempt to obscure whatever kind of problems he’s having. Thus, a real man doesn’t let his emotions guide his actions….And plus it helps that my man has dated around, been there done that, so by now he’s quite settled on what he really wants in life that he wouldn’t even RISK what we have just to bang a dime hoochie.


b.

b. takes more work but it actually makes life easier in the long run.
 
Tatyana said:
If you break up, it's not cheating :)

When people cheat, it is usually out of fulfilling some emotionally empty/dead space in them.

No difference between cheating, sticking a needle in your arm, stuffing a cheesecake down your throat, going out and getting hammered everynight, they are all just coping mechanisms that don't address the real issue.
Sometimes it isn't for any deep emotional reason. Sometimes the person is just shallow and wants some "strange." Other people do it because of a deeper unmet need. It depends on the person, I suppose.
 
heatherrae said:
Sometimes it isn't for any deep emotional reason. Sometimes the person is just shallow and wants some "strange." Other people do it because of a deeper unmet need. It depends on the person, I suppose.


i agree
 
Tatyana said:
No difference between cheating, sticking a needle in your arm, stuffing a cheesecake down your throat, going out and getting hammered everynight, they are all just coping mechanisms that don't address the real issue.

I beg to differ. Cheating is in no way an addiction that can be compared to being a dope head or alcoholic.
It does fill a void, but that comparision is overkill
 
blueta2 said:
I beg to differ. Cheating is in no way an addiction that can be compared to being a dope head or alcoholic.
It does fill a void, but that comparision is overkill

Clarification, compulsive cheaters, those that do it over and over and over again.

Once, twice, maybe, but when you start to cheat all the time, I would start thinking 'love addiction'.
 
Tatyana said:
Clarification, compulsive cheaters, those that do it over and over and over again.

Once, twice, maybe, but when you start to cheat all the time, I would start thinking 'love addiction'.


its striving to achieve that dopamine level.....
 
bigmann245 said:
its striving to achieve that dopamine level.....

Exactly.

I think that there may be many ways that the dopamine reward system gets triggered, but it is the same dopamine reward system.
 
Razorguns said:
Next time, break up with the guy, THEN cheat. There are two mixed messages in this thread. People cheat = suck, People cheat = have reasons. Which is why double standards are so easy to create here.

r


...
 
Tatyana said:
Exactly.

I think that there may be many ways that the dopamine reward system gets triggered, but it is the same dopamine reward system.


yes and people can get addicted to it... its that new relationship feeling that goes away after a while. they need to go and maintain thos levels or they just feel like crap. theres meds for it believe it or not but you have to be man enough to admit the problem...
 
Tatyana said:
If you break up, it's not cheating :)

When people cheat, it is usually out of fulfilling some emotionally empty/dead space in them.

No difference between cheating, sticking a needle in your arm, stuffing a cheesecake down your throat, going out and getting hammered everynight, they are all just coping mechanisms that don't address the real issue.

true. if you cheat once - and then blame <insert whatever million reasons for cheating> - you'll do it again.

In the business world - replace cheating with lying. You lie once - you are written off forever. Your reputation is scarred for life. Same with cheating. I would never date a girl who's cheated. Obviously she's lacking in proper morals and qualities.

I don't deal with people who lie, cheat, steal or have insecure negative attitudes. Unless they have cute doggies.

r
 
bigmann245 said:
yes and people can get addicted to it... its that new relationship feeling that goes away after a while. they need to go and maintain thos levels or they just feel like crap. theres meds for it believe it or not but you have to be man enough to admit the problem...

Is it called chocolate? :)

Seriously though, do you know what it is called?

I love the whole hormone response studies to falling in love and then pair bonding.
 
Yes ladies and gents.. Regardless whether or not the female or male party in a relationship exhibits self control and keeps it in their pants, having sexual relations with multiple partners is human nature..
 
Razorguns said:
Next time, break up with the guy, THEN cheat. There are two mixed messages in this thread. People cheat = suck, People cheat = have reasons. Which is why double standards are so easy to create here.

r
It's easy to sit in an ivory tower when you are financially secure and don't have other people depending on you. I got out as soon as I could, if that's not good enough, I'm sorry. There was a time I found it inexcusable, too, until the shoe was on the other foot. Put it this way, it was a valuable life lesson so not entirely useless. If nothing else, I learned what makes the difference between a successful relationship and one that isn't. Shit, my BAD marriage lasted longer than most people on this board have ever been with one person. My good marriage has lasted longer than that.

Just an aside, I'm generally sick of being judged by people who were just starting potty training around the time I married my first husband, seriously.
 
musclemom said:
It's easy to sit in an ivory tower when you are financially secure and don't have other people depending on you. I got out as soon as I could, if that's not good enough, I'm sorry. There was a time I found it inexcusable, too, until the shoe was on the other foot. Put it this way, it was a valuable life lesson so not entirely useless. If nothing else, I learned what makes the difference between a successful relationship and one that isn't. Shit, my BAD marriage lasted longer than most people on this board have ever been with one person. My good marriage has lasted longer than that.

Just an aside, I'm generally sick of being judged by people who were just starting potty training around the time I married my first husband, seriously.

I'm just detailing what most people on EF (and in life) think of cheaters. How would you feel if your current spouse cheated?

Personally, I don't care what people do in relationships. None of my business. But most people aren't like me (i know, sucks!)

r
 
blueta2 said:
Have you done a study?

go read this thread on people's opinions on 'cheaters'. you won't find many 'cheaters are people too' posts.

and leave the border. In many countries, cheaters are burned at the stake, sometimes by their own families. These are not isolated incidents. Generally accepted by the cultures of that area.

You're lucky you're in one piece. Some women are NOT that lucky, and here to post about it.

r
 
I love how this went from what pigs men are from cheating to how it's case by case if women happen to cheat too.

It's just wrong and incredibly selfish either way. Period.
 
Razorguns said:
I'm just detailing what most people on EF (and in life) think of cheaters. How would you feel if your current spouse cheated?

Personally, I don't care what people do in relationships. None of my business. But most people aren't like me (i know, sucks!)

r
I virtually lack the jealousy component. I honestly think I could handle an "open" relationship. If my husband found another woman he was interested in we'd have to have a serious talk but in some ways it might be nice, particularly if I liked her.

The only transgression I couldn't bear would be being purposely lied to. He has no reason to do that but he knows it would utterly destroy me on a deeply fundamental level.
 
jnevin said:
I love how this went from what pigs men are from cheating to how it's case by case if women happen to cheat too.

It's just wrong and incredibly selfish either way. Period.
I've never said it was right, but it seemed to be the only option at the time, that's all.

Look, everyone makes mistakes, that's the purpose of life on this plane. The trick is actually LEARNING from those mistakes. Believe it or not, we learn our greatest lessons from the painful mistakes we make. When we learn from our mistakes we grow spiritually.

A life perfectly led, with no drama, no heartache, is restful but pretty much useless.
 
musclemom said:
I've never said it was right, but it seemed to be the only option at the time, that's all.

Look, everyone makes mistakes, that's the purpose of life on this plane. The trick is actually LEARNING from those mistakes. Believe it or not, we learn our greatest lessons from the painful mistakes we make. When we learn from our mistakes we grow spiritually.

A life perfectly led, with no drama, no heartache, is restful but pretty much useless.


I know, and I wasn't singling you out even though when I read my post it could have come across that way.

It's just a very painfull thing to go through. My mom cheated on my dad, which ended their marriage, I was cheated on once, and I've never cheated on anyone. It just seems to me that there are other options if you really want something different.
 
musclemom said:
I virtually lack the jealousy component. I honestly think I could handle an "open" relationship. If my husband found another woman he was interested in we'd have to have a serious talk but in some ways it might be nice, particularly if I liked her.

The only transgression I couldn't bear would be being purposely lied to. He has no reason to do that but he knows it would utterly destroy me on a deeply fundamental level.

Interesting off shoot.

I also lack jealousy HOWEVER if my husband decided that he wanted to share what is sacred between US... I would be crushed.

My husband is a VERY social creature. He MUST be the center of attention in every single situation. I know this about him and I LOVE IT. Truth be told, I feel this takes *pressure off of me*. Yes, I am an incredible attentionwhore, but I pale in comparison to my husband. Having said that, if he EVER strayed outside the confines of what is special between us... it would KILL ME.

But that is me.... I don't judge but with me it's just how it works.
 
jnevin said:
It just seems to me that there are other options if you really want something different.


Life experience and learning from pain helps one see there are other options.
Without the emotional maturity, there are limited options
 
blueta2 said:
Life experience and learning from pain helps one see there are other options.
Without the emotional maturity, there are limited options


I don't buy that. There's obviously truth in the statement, but common sense and decency outweigh it. I have to steal to know it's wrong? I have to lie to know it's wrong? I have to be dishonest to my customers for profit to know it's wrong? Only after I do these things I'll be emotionally mature?

No.
 
These kinda threads make me CHUCKLE. Thats right I said chuckle.

Like men are the only cheaters out there. Do yo uknow how many married nurses/MDs/PAs/NPs have asked me for a trist? I mean just come out and ask me. Some are pretty hot some not so much.

Really now why is it that men get the bad rap? I think it is because most of us are not smart enough to keep it hush hush or that we feel bad enough about it that we allow our selves to get caught or maybe even fess up to it?

Fuck these man hating threads!! All the ladies who stood up and said all genders cheat thank you.
 
Pat_McCrotch said:
Fuck these man hating threads!! All the ladies who stood up and said all genders cheat thank you.

No shit senor.

I'm a musician, and i've slept with man women I KNOW had husbands, boyfriends at home.

I guess I'm to believe they all had horrible abusive destructive men (for some reason they can't dump), and their answer to this - is cheating.

Okay!

But whatever. Their lives.

What I HATE though, is attached women trying to lead single men on, purely because "they want to see if they still got it?". <-- they should have garbage trucks thrown at their head.

r
 
jnevin said:
I don't buy that. There's obviously truth in the statement, but common sense and decency outweigh it. I have to steal to know it's wrong? I have to lie to know it's wrong? I have to be dishonest to my customers for profit to know it's wrong? Only after I do these things I'll be emotionally mature?

No.

Smart people learn from their mistakes, not so smart people keep repeating them
Yes some people need to steal or hurt others to know it's wrong and not do it again. It's called being human and making mistakes and learning from them
Common sense doesn't always have a role in an emotional decision.

You've been cheating on so its painful to think about, I get that.
I cheated once, it was a bad move. I had no common sense and like MM said, it was a mistake. One I learned from and grew from
 
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