Let's Lose This Myth Once And For All!!!

[The Rage]

one time i accidentally drew up too much suspension and i figured it probably wouldnt be that bad so i injected in ne wayz. 75-100 mg i think. yeah i felt it when i was lifting. never felt like that before. what a rush. i would have put it back in the vial but i had something else in the syringe. tren i think.

 

[Nelson Montana]

oh ya, seconds after I take my shot of testosterone enthanate my lifts improve, and my muscles get bigger.

Hey, my squat went up 50 pounds after the first week of my first cycle. This is not unusual for guys who've been long time nattys.

Again, it's true that there's some accumlative effect, but still, you're more "anabolic" on day two than you were beforehand. To a guy who'd fought for every ounce of muscle, that's a tremendous advantage. It's a shame that it's so often wasted.

 

[Wulfgar]

he is talking about active life and half life
every chemical substance has one to my understanding

this is one of the reasons i prefer shorter burst cycles. the stuff is working in you quickly, the body intitiates countermeasures(mainly estrogen and cortisol) after 2-3 weeks of constant exposure
get in quick, hit it hard, and get out

 

[digit0x]

i dont think it's a myth but more of a misunderstanding on the term kicking in...i think when someone says it takes 3 weeks for something to kick in it really means it takes 3 weeks to see noticeable visual gains or to be able to tell visually that it is working

 

[mr.nitro]

obviously something is happening the very second you finish injecting, but to have a 50lb strenth increace the first wek sounds like the placibo effect to me.

I would never wait for it to kick in to train hard, I train hard no mater what, but I have never ever seen results that fast. maybe an extra rep, but I can get that from just being in the zone, so to speak.

 

[Crappiie]

Good post!!! Ive always wondered about that. Now I know. Thanks!!!

 

[majutsu]

The anabolic environment from testosterone and other anabolics is, in several recent articles, felt to be due to the migration and activation of satellite cells, leading to their fusion and donation of nuclei.[Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2004 May;7(3):271-7. Review; J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2003 Dec;58(12):M1103-10. Review; Endocrinology. 2003 Nov;144(11):5081-8. Epub 2003 Jul 24] The activation of the satellite cells is thought to occur by second messenger systems such as inositol triphosphatase, which can take about 2 weeks to activate. Immediate blood levels do not correlate to immediate activity. This phenomenon is seen frequently in pharmaceutics. For example, brain levels of serotonin 1/2 hour after taking an antidepressant are sky high (from reuptake inhibition at the receptor), but it takes weeks for the second messenger system that actually has the desired effect to work. In short, most graduate scientists studying anabolics will disagree with you, as you seem to be unaware of the work done on second messenger cascades. Nevertheless, you brought forth a good question, one that certainly requires more research. As for the individual reporting feeling suspension, that is because the "high" aspects of steroids can be activated very quickly, more so than the biochemical effects, especially with suspension forms. But the amount of mass put on the first week with any anabolic, even with suspension, is pretty negligible. And pps, speaking of recycling myths, down-regulation of androgen receptors does not occur with treatment as you stated in your original post, but rather clear up-regulation has been shown repeatedly [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):5245-55] It is, in fact, the same second messenger cascades being worn and maximized that results in anabolics' diminishing returns over time.
Lastly, it could be dangerous and criminally negligent to pass yourself off as an authority on FDA approved medications when you are not a pharmacist, MD or other health practicioner. And perhaps doing so for financial gain and self-aggrandizement, while risking hurting someone greatly, should be cause for moral concern.

 

[needtogetaas]

The anabolic environment from testosterone and other anabolics is, in several recent articles, felt to be due to the migration and activation of satellite cells, leading to their fusion and donation of nuclei.[Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2004 May;7(3):271-7. Review; J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2003 Dec;58(12):M1103-10. Review; Endocrinology. 2003 Nov;144(11):5081-8. Epub 2003 Jul 24] The activation of the satellite cells is thought to occur by second messenger systems such as inositol triphosphatase, which can take about 2 weeks to activate. Immediate blood levels do not correlate to immediate activity. This phenomenon is seen frequently in pharmaceutics. For example, brain levels of serotonin 1/2 hour after taking an antidepressant are sky high (from reuptake inhibition at the receptor), but it takes weeks for the second messenger system that actually has the desired effect to work. In short, most graduate scientists studying anabolics will disagree with you, as you seem to be unaware of the work done on second messenger cascades. Nevertheless, you brought forth a good question, one that certainly requires more research. As for the individual reporting feeling suspension, that is because the "high" aspects of steroids can be activated very quickly, more so than the biochemical effects, especially with suspension forms. But the amount of mass put on the first week with any anabolic, even with suspension, is pretty negligible. And pps, speaking of recycling myths, down-regulation of androgen receptors does not occur with treatment as you stated in your original post, but rather clear up-regulation has been shown repeatedly [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):5245-55] It is, in fact, the same second messenger cascades being worn and maximized that results in anabolics' diminishing returns over time.
Lastly, it could be dangerous and criminally negligent to pass yourself off as an authority on FDA approved medications when you are not a pharmacist, MD or other health practicioner. And perhaps doing so for financial gain and self-aggrandizement, while risking hurting someone greatly, should be cause for moral concern.

I thought this post really added to the thread till I got to the last part and so that it was just another bash....o well better luck next time.

 

[todoveritas]

Actually the answer is Yes. Yes, AAS start their effect immediately. However, it DOES take two-three weeks for you oil-bases to kick in. A basic chemistry lesson: AAS increase protein synthesis on a molecular level. Before the synthesis of a protein begins, the Amino Acids for the corresponding muscle protein "recipe" must be made. This is done through a process called transcription. The RNA molecule is produced and then this code is multiplied several times over. It is this process which is sped up by AAS. The next thing to occur is called RNA translation. This is where the "muscle code" is sent out to the manufacturer "the liver, etc." who then calls in the nutrients in the bloodstream into the cell so the muscle can be made. That was a super short lesson in something that would take 4-5 years of study. I will be happy to explain it in more detail if desired.

 

[Nelson Montana]

The anabolic environment from testosterone and other anabolics is, in several recent articles, felt to be due to the migration and activation of satellite cells, leading to their fusion and donation of nuclei.[Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2004 May;7(3):271-7. Review; J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2003 Dec;58(12):M1103-10. Review; Endocrinology. 2003 Nov;144(11):5081-8. Epub 2003 Jul 24] The activation of the satellite cells is thought to occur by second messenger systems such as inositol triphosphatase, which can take about 2 weeks to activate.
..........................................................

"Which CAN..." AND EVEN THEN, IT'S ONLY TWO WEEKS. MEANWHILE, T LEVELS ARE ELEVATED AND NITROGEN IS BEING RECIRCULATED.


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Immediate blood levels do not correlate to immediate activity.

.................................................


Hmm, THIS IS ARGUABALE. BUT, AT ANY RATE, I NEVER SAID IMMEDIATE.


.........................................................

This phenomenon is seen frequently in pharmaceutics. For example, brain levels of serotonin 1/2 hour after taking an antidepressant are sky high (from reuptake inhibition at the receptor), but it takes weeks for the second messenger system that actually has the desired effect to work.

...............................................................

A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MECHANISM. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BRAIN CHEMESTRY NOW AND THE CHANGES THAT TAKE PLACE. THAT'S A FAR CRY OF ANABOLISM.



...................................................................


In short, most graduate scientists studying anabolics will disagree with you, as you seem to be unaware of the work done on second messenger cascades. Nevertheless, you brought forth a good question, one that certainly requires more research.


.................................................


SO WHICH IS IT?


.....................................................
As for the individual reporting feeling suspension, that is because the "high" aspects of steroids can be activated very quickly, more so than the biochemical effects, especially with suspension forms. But the amount of mass put on the first week with any anabolic, even with suspension, is pretty negligible.
........................................................

AGAIN, IT'S THE SECOND OR THIRD WEEK WHERE THE BEST GAINS COULD BE MADE. AND THEY WOULD BE AT LEAST AS GOOD AS THE GAINS MADE IN WEEK 12. IF YOU PUT ON 4 POUNDS A WEEK , THAT'S NEGLIGABLE, BUT OVER TIME, IT'S QUITE A BIT.

...........................................................

And pps, speaking of recycling myths, down-regulation of androgen receptors does not occur with treatment as you stated in your original post, but rather clear up-regulation has been shown repeatedly [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):5245-55] It is, in fact, the same second messenger cascades being worn and maximized that results in anabolics' diminishing returns over time.

......................................................

SIX OF ONE -- HALF A DOZEN OF THE OTHER. THE BODY PRODUCES A TOLERANCE TO ANY EXOGENOUS SUBSTANCE.


...........................................................

Lastly, it could be dangerous and criminally negligent to pass yourself off as an authority on FDA approved medications when you are not a pharmacist, MD or other health practicioner. And perhaps doing so for financial gain and self-aggrandizement, while risking hurting someone greatly, should be cause for moral concern.
........................................................................

OH, YOU MEAN LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE ON THIS BOARD?!?!?!

GIVE ME A BREAK!

CRIMINAL? FIRST OF ALL I NEVER SAID I WAS A PHARACIST OR ANY SUCH THING. BUT I KNOW SOME THINGS AND YOU CAN ASK MOST ANY EXPERT IN PHARMACOLOGY AND THEY'LL AGREE WITH WITH MY INITIAL STATEMENT. (PERHAPS WITH AOME ADDENDUMS, BUT BASICALLY AGREE. AND REMEMBER, MUSCLE GROWTH THROUGH THE USE OF ANABOLICS IS NOT HIGH ON THE LIST OF MEDICAL STUDIES).

AND ONE MORE THING. I THINK I'VE PROBABLY DONE MORE TO DISUADE THE MISUSE OF EXCESSIVE DRUG USE AND TO PROMOTE A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE THAN MAYBE ANY BODY ELSE ON THIS BOARD. SO DON'T PULL THE PIOTY CARD ON ME BRO. THIS POST DOES NOTHING TO PROMOTE MY PERSONAL GAIN NOR DOES IT PUT ANYONE AT RISK. IF ANYTHING IT PROMOTES A MORE RESPONSIBLE APROACH. SO YOU CAN TAKE YOUR "MORAL CONCERN" AND KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.

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