Ketosis - theory, help me ot here (tat?)

[cobracock1979]

OK,

I have donna a lotta research in to diets , and have done a CKD with great success. The one thing that constantly bothers me

I understand the principle of cals in - cals out, and the fact that a lotta people say you cannot lose fat whilst gaining muscle at the same time...but..

If I consume a ketogenic diet (high EFA/high protein), and my total calories are 1000cals over BMR, surely I am gonna gain muscle whilst losing fat, as the only energy my body can access is fat, but my cals + protein are hight so I should grow??

Can anyone shed light on this and put my poor tired brain to rest?

Tat?...

 

[SouthernLord]

I think you can bro. I am trying to prove this now I am eating above maintenance with a very low CHO intake. Protein is at 2x bw and fat is between 1x-1.5x bw. My only carbs are coming from green veggies, nuts, natty PB, and WMS PWO three time a week. I have not had a refeed yet. I have been eating like this for a month now and I have only dropped 6 pounds. That was the first week and it was all water. My weight has maintained since then I am definitely tightening up, so that leads me to believe I am gaining LBM while dropping fat.

I would like to see other, more informed, members way in on this. Tat, Rage-Of-Sparta, makaveli??

 

[desmond]

SL:

tat has think opined on this topic to the point that if u couldn't gain fat on keto, all cavemen would have died b/c they were basically on keto and would have at times faced keto, and hence, a keto diet has to be adapable by the human body to fat storage. Of course, if something works for u - stick with it as I'm sure u will.

Tat please correct me if I am wrong (and apologies for misquoting u then).

In this link, Jamie Hale appears to state that fat can be stored independent of insulin through the hormone Acylation stimulating protein (ASP): http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=960737

"Acylation stimulating protein (ASP) is a hormone produced by adipocytes and is of importance for the storage of energy as fat. The consumption of dietary fat alone can increase fat storage".

 

[SouthernLord]

SL:

tat has think opined on this topic to the point that if u couldn't gain fat on keto, all cavemen would have died b/c they were basically on keto and would have at times faced keto, and hence, a keto diet has to be adapable by the human body to fat storage. Of course, if something works for u - stick with it as I'm sure u will.

Tat please correct me if I am wrong (and apologies for misquoting u then).

In this link, Jamie Hale appears to state that fat can be stored independent of insulin through the hormone Acylation stimulating protein (ASP): BB Roundtable: Will Brink, Jamie Hale, Layne Norton, Alan Aragon - Bodybuilding.com Forums

"Acylation stimulating protein (ASP) is a hormone produced by adipocytes and is of importance for the storage of energy as fat. The consumption of dietary fat alone can increase fat storage".

Good post!

I am only a month into this... My ultimate goal is LBM gain with constant sustained energy levels throughout the day. I do not do well with carbs. Eating like this keeps me energized and I like the strength gains form a high fat diet. I am however dropping fat and if that continues that is great.

 

[desmond]

Good post!

I am only a month into this... My ultimate goal is LBM gain with constant sustained energy levels throughout the day. I do not do well with carbs. Eating like this keeps me energized and I like the strength gains form a high fat diet. I am however dropping fat and if that continues that is great.

There is obviously something individual about this, because if I drop carbs, I am a zombie in the gym, and am sore all the time.

BTW, I'm not sure whether ur aware of the authors I cited, but none of them are fans of many conventional practices of this board (e.g., requirement of insulin spikes PWO such as PWO; fasted cardio; extremely low carb diets), so depending on your take on these issues you may be disinclined to give any deference to their views.

 

[iggy]

well keep up the good work SL! i envy you because you can eat ANPB! (omega wont let me eat it!)

 

[SouthernLord]

There is obviously something individual about this, because if I drop carbs, I am a zombie in the gym, and am sore all the time.

BTW, I'm not sure whether ur aware of the authors I cited, but none of them are fans of many conventional practices of this board (e.g., requirement of insulin spikes PWO such as PWO; fasted cardio; extremely low carb diets), so depending on your take on these issues you may be disinclined to give any deference to their views.

When you cut carbs are you then increasing fat consumption? I do not crash at all through the day. Even before I started adding stims to my diet.

I did not even notice that link until know. I am about to check it out!!

 

[SouthernLord]

There is obviously something individual about this, because if I drop carbs, I am a zombie in the gym, and am sore all the time.

BTW, I'm not sure whether ur aware of the authors I cited, but none of them are fans of many conventional practices of this board (e.g., requirement of insulin spikes PWO such as PWO; fasted cardio; extremely low carb diets), so depending on your take on these issues you may be disinclined to give any deference to their views.

When you cut carbs are you then increasing fat consumption? I do not crash at all through the day. Even before I started adding stims to my diet.

I did not even notice that link until now. I am about to check it out!!

 

[Tatyana]

Insulin will spike with just eating, and in response to protein/amino acids.

I think it is not as much insulin released, but it is still released.

There are so many factors involved, like what your bodyfat is, as the lower it is, the more likely nutrients will go to muscle.

There is also your activity level, so if you are quite active or someone who never sits still, you will burn a lot of calories.

CC79, did you multiply your BMR by your activity level?

I really wish that low carb diets worked for me, I am trying one out again, but it does seem whenever I drop one of my macros too much, I just end up with uncontrollable urges for the macro I dropped.

 

[desmond]

When you cut carbs are you then increasing fat consumption? I do not crash at all through the day. Even before I started adding stims to my diet.

I did not even notice that link until now. I am about to check it out!!

Thanks SL - I did increase fat consumption to about 55%.

I probably didn't try it long enough - I had Tat's issues (craving hte macro I was depleted of compared to my previous diet). My main reason to try was that JH University is currently trialing it for chronic headache sufferers, and I wanted to see whether it would help me but I couldn't stick with it