EAS Simply Soy fast or slow protein?

[SteelWeaver]

Anyone know if soy is "fast" or "slow" (no sprinting cracks, spatterson). I want to use it post-workout because it has 19g carbs per 20g protein, and I'd rather fit the carbs in there than during the day.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Spatterson, you are a great woman! Here: big kiss for you. I should have done the search ... sorry.

Yeah - I meant slow compared to whey. MS suggested I use soy or soy/whey during the day - which is fine, since I was using it anyway, but it has so many carbs, and I'd rather fit them in post-workout.

Oh well - just have to skip the oatmeal til I can find low-carb soy ...

Thanks again.

 

[wilson6]

Casein is a slow protein as well. Fast vs slow refers to digestion and release of amino acids into the blood. Whey when ingested by itself is in and out in a couple of hours. Casein takes about 3x longer. Gives a more prolonged release of essential amino acids into the blood thus keeping protein synthesis turned on overnight. The more I read about soy, the less convinced I am that it is a good thing. I'd suggest a whey/casein blend. See below abstract from, Am J Physiology Vol. 280, Issue 2, E340-E348, February 2001

The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention

Martial Dangin1,3, Yves Boirie1, Clara Garcia-Rodenas3, Pierre Gachon1, Jacques Fauquant2, Philippe Callier3, Olivier Ballèvre3, and Bernard Beaufrère1
1 Laboratoire de Nutrition Humaine, Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine, Université Clermont Auvergne, 63009 Clermont-Ferrand; 2 Laboratoire de Technologie Laitière, Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, 35042 Rennes, France; and 3 Nestec, Nestlé Research Center, CH 1000 Lausanne 26 Switzerland

To evaluate the importance of protein digestion rate on protein deposition, we characterized leucine kinetics after ingestion of "protein" meals of identical amino acid composition and nitrogen contents but of different digestion rates. Four groups of five or six young men received an L-[1-13C]leucine infusion and one of the following 30-g protein meals: a single meal of slowly digested casein (CAS), a single meal of free amino acid mimicking casein composition (AA), a single meal of rapidly digested whey proteins (WP), or repeated meals of whey proteins (RPT-WP) mimicking slow digestion rate. Comparisons were made between "fast" (AA, WP) and "slow" (CAS, RPT-WP) meals of identical amino acid composition (AA vs. CAS, and WP vs. RPT-WP). The fast meals induced a strong, rapid, and transient increase of aminoacidemia, leucine flux, and oxidation. After slow meals, these parameters increased moderately but durably. Postprandial leucine balance over 7 h was higher after the slow than after the fast meals (CAS: 38 ± 13 vs. AA: 12 ± 11, P < 0.01; RPT-WP: 87 ± 25 vs. WP: 6 ± 19 µmol/kg, P < 0.05). Protein digestion rate is an independent factor modulating postprandial protein deposition.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

I have considered casein, too. I haven't done an exhaustive search, but it seems to me that not a lot of supplement companies are putting it out - not easy to get hold of - just whey whey whey.

I figure, though, that if I don't have to go that far up the food chain for quality protein, then I may as well not.

My problem is rather more practical at the moment, though - I have several jars of Simply Soy, each serving containing 19g of carbs which I need to fit in somewhere if I'm to get at the protein in those servings.

I have heard that one should have a slow protein before bed, but since I train at night, I have to go with whey at night ... Oh, it's all so darned complicated!

I thought soy had a PER close to that of eggs. What have you been reading about it to put you off, W6?

 

[NY Muscle]

you definately want a *fast acting* protein like whey post workout, with carbs, but make sure for every gram of protein you have in your shake post workout, that you have about 1.5 gms of carbs that seems to work good...also..adding even a few gms of flax seed oil *slows* the absorption of the protein at any time of the day, so theres no need to wast $$ on these *special* slow releasing proteins....you can though try casein if u want, its not exepnsive, i have like 10lbs of it at home, i dont like it at all, gets too thick and has an odd afetr taste, i cant stomach it.

even though no matter what protein you have post workout, after 24hrs the amino acid content or nitrogen retention or some standard of measure that i cant recall is the same..oh well, so much for all these special proteins.

 

[MS]

Just looking at the ingrdients, I would say that EAS soy is about the worst food you could eat post workout, and any time you're trying to cut. Not only is soy a pretty slow digesting protein, but that s**t is sweetened with a whopping 17g of fructose per serving! You should use it as a pre-workout meal instead. Try to use it all up before you start your cutting diet.

If you're thinking about investing in pure soy protein, I would highly recommend Mass Quantities Soy Isolate Deluxe. It is truly flavorless, and mixes instantly! This is the brand that I used exclusively for my last 2 competition cutting cycles (no I'm not affliated with the company!). It's also great for year round use because you can use it in cooking/baking or whatever to boost the protein content without changing the flavor of the food. The big drawback of this protein is that it is about the most expensive protein around. I haven't tried the Protein Factories stuff, so I can't vouch for flavor and mixability, but I'm sure their products are nutritionally sound, and great prices.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Just looking at the ingrdients, I would say that EAS soy is about the worst food you could eat post workout, and any time you're trying to cut. Not only is soy a pretty slow digesting protein, but that s**t is sweetened with a whopping 17g of fructose per serving! You should use it as a pre-workout meal instead. Try to use it all up before you start your cutting diet.

S**T!!! GRRrrrr!!! How'm I gonna get rid of this stuff?! When you say pre-workout, you mean ... like an hour or so before, right? Only? So ... not at my 10am meal?

Thanks for the info on Mass Quantities Soy - I checked that out at Bodybuilding.com, but you can only buy, like, a pound at a time, and indeed, it is pricey!

I think I'm gonna go for the Protein Factory stuff - some people on the other thread gave it a big thumbs up. MS - would you recommend a blend, or straight soy?

And speaking of flax oil - I usually eat 15-20g almonds and 100g or so of cottage cheese (not low fat) with whey (or whey/soy) at 10am and 4:30pm - this should cover the same bases, right?

 

[SteelWeaver]

PS. Um ... why's fructose bad?

 

[NY Muscle]

PS. Um ... why's fructose bad?

oh God one of my fav subjects! fructose is bad bad a very nasty sugar, its a sloppy fruit sugar, even though the GI rating is low like 20 or so, its still crap, im sure MS will correct me or add to what im gonna say because i dont know if im explaining this correctly.
fructose is used to sweeten stuff like coke and pepsi..... HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP or something like that, this stuff goes right to the liver and fills up liver glycogen, the problem with fructose unlike other sugars, is that the body only has the capicity to store maybe 50gms or so on average then the liver gets maxed out and the rest spills over to triglycerides (fat)...also post workout you want a sugar that replenishes muscle glycogen, and im most cases the muscles will soak up the carbs and if you drank or ate too many the liver is the next step, once thats filled then it turns to tryglycerides....the problem with fructose is, it bypasses muscles and goes right to the liver which as i said before cant store much, then after that it goes to fat......this is also the worst sugar for a low carb diet despite is low GI rating, because you will fill up the liver glycogen thus slowing down fat loss on a low carb diet or possibly any diet for that matter.....and also it wont give you the insulin spike that you need post workout because of its low GI rating of like 20..where as MALTODEXTRIN..one of the most commonly used carbs in MRPS and post workout drinks has a GI of 157 or so.....im sure MS will correct me if my explanation isnt perfect.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Right, silly me! Low GI - but I didn't know it was so low. So, in that case, then, if it goes straight to the liver, bypassing the muscles, one technically should NEVER use it ...? Right? Or, used pre-workout, it would be used as fuel? What's the order for glycogen use during a workout? Muscle glycogen, then whatever's getting processed in your gut?

And on a low carb diet, if I understand you correctly - one attempts to replenish ONLY muscle glycogen, not liver glycogen??? Uh ... this is controlled by the number of carbs eaten????

(Forgive me - not very well read (yet)).