Days after Detroit declared bankruptcy..

[canadianhitman]

Nice job tracking down the economic benefits of the project, Plunkey.

 

[SpyWizard]

They studied the economical impact that the stadium overhaul would have and it was negligible. This isn't like a whole new team moving into the area, the Red Wings have been there for a long time. Very little benefit will go to the people of Detroit besides some seasonal jobs. At least not enough to even come close to offsetting the price tag. How can you agree with using public funds to fund this when the city just declared bankruptcy? People making $19k a year won't get their pensions...their fucking pensions. Yet little ceasars get their stadium overhaul? It's not like the owner can just pack up and move them either, he'd need permission from the NHL which they would never give, not for the Red Wings no way.

$19K year?? not much of a pension now is it?? it's ok though food stamps, free medical and social security will get them the same thing.. it's all part of King Obama's plan..

 

[SpyWizard]

Not if there's 500m to refurbish an arena that really doesn't absolutely need it. People's pensions are the last thing on the chopping block. If there's 500m for a stadium there's enough money to cover people's pensions.

is that all it would take 500million to cover the pension plan?? heck, even my firefighter plan has a guaranteed 3% growth

but we are smart enough not to leave the direction or management in the hands of politicians, it's professionally managed...

500 million. hahahha that's a laugh for sure... pensions are bullshit, and for the weak minded that cannot save nor invest in the future for their own care... or are they savings accounts for hard working people who tool lower paying jobs in order to have more money saved for them in a pension plan due to afore mentioned issues??

 

[redsamurai]

well first let's look at the pensions:

Those were antiquated defined benefit plans -- not defined contribution ones. The private sector realized these plans are unsustainable over 25 years ago.

The benefits were artificially set high by using fraudulent accounting and calculation caveats (like getting a promotion one year before retirement, working 60 hour weeks and then setting that salary as your base for pension payments).

does a $19k annual pension sound exhorbitant to you? These people are retired and can't get back in the work force. $19k is baseline subsistence living.

the city knew for decades that the funds were failing. But instead of shoring them up, politicians picked the corpse clean and left the the pension bill rocketing upward.


i'm not in disagreement but where is the fairness to chop $19k pensions from retired people?
now let's look at the stadium:

----- copy and paste ----

the arena will be paid for with a $450 million bond issue that will be repaid over the next 30 years. Taxpayers will be paying almost two-thirds of the cost of the arena — $283 million — and private developers will cover the rest. Including interest, it’s projected that there will be a total of $444 million in taxpayer funds spent on the project.

Additionally, the developer has committed to spending another $200 million to build retail, office, residential and hotel space as part of the project. The construction is expected to create about 8,000 construction jobs with work due to start next year.

---- end copy and paste ----


8000 contruction jobs that will be gone once the refurb is done. Isn't that the shovel and run jobs you guys disdained on obama's stimulus for? And will all of those 8000 workers be in state? Depending on the contractor they may bring in out of state workers. This isn't so cut and dry.

So the city isn't just handing-out the cash -- it's making a low-cost bond issue. They'll get the cash back and in the process, draw-in $140m of private cash on the stadium and another $200m of all-private cash to be spent on the surrounding area.

---------------------------------------
so which is the clean end of the turd?

there is none. You just can't justify slashing people's pensions who earned it. These people aren't "getting over" on anybody with a $19k pension.

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[-SD-]

If the money isnt there, the money isnt there. I dont see how someone "earns" a defined benefit plan other than showing up and punching a clock like the rest of the world. The world isnt fair and if the politicians run a city into the dirt and theres nothing left for pensions, well shit happens and its not the end of the world.

 

[75th]

If the money isnt there, the money isnt there. I dont see how someone "earns" a defined benefit plan other than showing up and punching a clock like the rest of the world.

The same way they "earn" their paycheck. It's part of their total compensation package. Not rocket surgery.

 

[miplank]

this thread should file bankruptcy....

 

[-SD-]

The same way they "earn" their paycheck. It's part of their total compensation package. Not rocket surgery.

Paychecks are different than benefits. Benefits change all the time, somtimes more and sometime less. Kinda rare for someone to get their paycheck lowered.

 

[75th]

Since when is a defined benefit plan like health insurance? The straw grasping is strong with you, my son.

 

[gjohnson5]

The same way they "earn" their paycheck. It's part of their total compensation package. Not rocket surgery.

Rocket Surgery?
Or brain Surgery?

In some respects I have to agree with SD. The pensions of the collecting folks were being paid for by monies collected from current workers. The number of current workers does not pay for the number of people collecting a pensions.

I think what new York did is grant a combination of pension and 401k, so half or more of their retirement is an elected contribution from the workers pay check.

But New York still has a bigger debt then Detroit , so not sure if it's working