ALA for athletes

[nandi12]

I'm sorry if I try to draw conclusions from textbooks and controlled studies rather than anecdotal reports and infomercials. That approach has generally led me to correct conclusions, but maybe ALA is so sophisticated it is beyond the realm of science.

 

[fhg43]

why do people lose fat on ALA then? Also, I was under the impression Avandia would help lose fat also since less insulin is being produced. I thought ALA helped shuttle more nutrients into the muscles for a faster recovery... wow was I messed up.

It may be coincidence, but I had been carrying a few extra lbs and was having hard time getting rid of them. I was doing tons of cardio (thats what I do so my lack of weight loss confused me), eating well, and using ALA with my ECA. I noticed I couldn't lose some stubborn fat. However I kept everything the same and removed ALA (ran out) and the weight (fat) flew off! Makes sense my metabolism shifted more towards fat for fuel!

nandi's info makes sense for me, an endurance athlete. I'll probably quit using ALA. Will save me some money too!

FHG

 

[swimmar]

why do people lose fat on ALA then? Also, I was under the impression Avandia would help lose fat also since less insulin is being produced. I thought ALA helped shuttle more nutrients into the muscles for a faster recovery... wow was I messed up.

The amount of fat that's burned during exercise is pretty insignificant, unless you're Lance Armstrong. Most of us don't train hard for six hours a day though. So just because ALA shifts energy sources away from fat and towards glycogen doesn't have to mean that ALA will not let you lose fat.

 

[serge]

So, if one were a pretty serious competitive athlete, but wanted to do a ketogenic diet, would ALA be a good supplement? It sounds like you could keep your muscles filled with glycogen for those multi-hour workouts and not be in danger of going out of ketosis.

Thoughts?

your body cant generate ketones unless all glycogen is depleated

 

[swimmar]

Re: Re: ALA for athletes

your body cant generate ketones unless all glycogen is depleated

Hm... call me crazy, but I always thought that ketones were generated when the liver was depleted of glycogen. NOT when every single drop of glucose in your system is gone.

 

[swimmar]

It's impossible to tell a priori whether any particular antidiabetic will cause weight loss because of a decrease in insulin, or a weight gain from substrate shifting or some other factor. Some people lose weight on thiazolidinediones from all the anecdotal discussion of the drug I have come across. Metformin is another drug that does not induce weight gain in many people; in others it does.

There is also no research to suggest ALA will "shuttle more nutrients into the muscles for a faster recovery" For starters it has no demonstrated effect on amino acid transport, nor would one be expected from its mode of action. Second, glycogen synthase levels limit the rate that glycogen can be stored in muscle. As glycogen accumulates, it shuts off this synthase, blocking any more glycogen deposition. Any additional glucose that enters the cell will be used as fuel rather than stored. And this glucose is burned at the expense of fat that would otherwise have been burned to maintain cell function.

Insulin is a potent stimulator of glycogen synthase. By lowering insulin with ALA (remember, ALA has never been shown to do anything in people that are not insulin resistant; about 75% of the population) you will lose out on the increase in glycogen synthase caused by the insulin and possibly reduce the amount of glycogen stored in muscle.

Antidiabetic drugs like ALA have one purpose: to lower blood sugar levels and hence insulin levels in type 2 diabetics, and restore glucose homeostasis. They are not designed to improve athletic performance in normal people; they are designed to help the symptoms and stave off the health risks of type 2 diabetes. An improvement in athletic performance in obese or diabetic people using ALA or another such drug come about becuase these people are unable to use glucose like other people.

Hm.. I've just recently found out about this ALA stuff. From what I've been able to gather from the archives, I thought that ALA raised insulin levels at a time when there was no glycogen to be transported to muscles (assuming that the muscle glycogen stores are full). This is usually a good thing, right? Or am I way off base here?

(why is this stupid body so damn complex? my head hurts)

 

[serge]

Re: Re: Re: ALA for athletes

Hm... call me crazy, but I always thought that ketones were generated when the liver was depleted of glycogen.

which can only happen AFTER muscle glycogen goes bye bye

 

[serge]

ALA raised insulin levels

ALA does not raise insulin levels it mimics insuline itself (hence its concidered glucose disposal agent) thereby increasing insulin scensetivity which translates into=less insulin is needed to transport the same amount of glucose

 

[swimmar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA for athletes

which can only happen AFTER muscle glycogen goes bye bye

You sure?

I was under the impression that glycogen first is sent off to muscles, then when they are filled, then the liver stocks up on glycogen.

Here's a quote from Lyle McDonald:
"Without exercise to deplete muscle glycogen (a misunderstanding of the ketogenic state is that muscle glycogen is depleted. All that's important for ketosis to occur is that blood glucose be lowered and all that requires is for liver glycogen to be empty. You could have full muscle glycogen and still be in ketosis. Using insulin would do just that), a carb-up would fill up muscle glycogen (moreso since it wasn't depleted in the first place) and then spill way over (I mean more than I get with my pig outs on the weekend) to fat cells."

Taken from http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...es+group%3Amisc.fitness.weights+author%3Alyle

 

[serge]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ALA for athletes

Using insulin would do just that

key phrase