WInny & "Dry Joints" -- Another Myth?

[Nelson Montana]

I never understood the "dry joint" complaint that people have with winny. Personally, I think it's one of these parroted myths that people seem to believe after a while -- just like deca is "good" for the joints. There is no evidence of either, other than the perpetuated rumor. Someone gets a little sore while using Winny and it's like "Oh, I have "dry" joints!" What the fuck are "dry" joints anyway? Does winny decrease collagen? I can see that it blocks estrogen to a degree and THAT may have an effect, but I never hear anyone complaining about dry joints from a-dex or aromasan or nolvadex.

Sometimes people will recommend deca to counteract the affect of deca yet I've never seen any studies on this -- only message board prattle. If anyone has any real evidence of deca repairing joints, please post it up. Then again, I've seen people make these claims about EQ, and there isn;t a single legitimate study on the effects of EQ on any human being. It's amazing the bullshit that manages to flourish.

Actually there is one steroid that has shown the ability to increase collegan synthesis and has even been used to treat such conditions. It's called....WINSTROL. Here ya go: Journal of Investigative Dermatology - Stimulation of Collagen Synthesis by the Anabolic Steroid Stanozolol

Who knows -- maybe those "aching joints" are actually joints that are being repaired.

 

[RickO'Shea]

Nelson, I love you.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I have never used winny due to this "rumor"/fact, whichever it is. If your joints hurt while on it, it has to be the fact that it lowers your estrogen. I can tell you first hand on the deca/adex subject. I have tendonitis in my tri insertions. Right side alot more so. If it is hurting it will hurt for a while. Accupressure/deep tissue is the only thing that makes it better. Within 2.5-3 days of a 200mg shot of deca my elbows are pain free. Shoulders are void of any pain too.
On the flip side, I despise adex. Fortunatley for me with deca, test, dbol, ect... i dont get any gyno issues. so i dont have to take it. I did take two doses this cycle during dbol. My water drinking was slacking off so I started to retain a little. I took two .25mg doses (which fixed it with a water increase) but even that dose I felt in my joints. Last cycle I made a miscalculation and had to go 10 days "without" while my new test arrived. So I took .5mg of adex E3D during that wait. I have never felt so awful. Joints and body. Never used Aromasin. From my reading it sounds better though.

 

[C.K.]

From my personal experince winny dries my joints, my shoulders just dont rotate like they normally do and pop alot... im sure everyone else speaks for themselves when they say the same

 

[Mac173]

It's just an easy way to describe the feeling that is caused from lowered estrogen.

 

[C.K.]

It's just an easy way to describe the feeling that is caused from lowered estrogen.

Yuppp tren does the exact same to me...

 

[njmuscleguy]

Nelson:

Here is a writeup that I seen on practically every bodybuilding / AAS forum out there... in exactly the same format, so obviously it's been recycled many, many times... I don't really have time at the moment, but I couldn't readily find a RELIABLE source (e.g. Pub Med) to verify it any of the information or claims... but here you go:



While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of anabolic steroids which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use anabolic steroids like sus, testosterone cypionate, or testosterone enanthate.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - , Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , Anavar, or Primobolan - methenolone - as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - , Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , anavar and Primobolan - methenolone - will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - .

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies doenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other anabolic steroids, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - : 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, human growth hormone - somatropin - at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - , Primobolan - methenolone - , anavar, and Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain anabolic steroids, the decision is up to you.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

very educational read NJmuscle.

 

[aquatic_glories]

great one again bro

 

[C.K.]

^^^What does all that have to do with winstrols effects on joints?