Would you eat horsemeat? Its lean and high in protein

[Hiatussin]

If you have an interest in animal behavior how many animals have you ever owned? Seriously, I got a bet with myself on this on Hiatt, how many animals have you ever owned? I'm betting I got more animals living in my house, right now, than you ever owned in your entire life, I probably have more within 20 feet of me

Living with the animals or spending LONG amounts of time with them intimately is a helluva lot more instructional than reading any book, ask Diane Fosse.

I owned about 5 animals or so. I´ll admit I never particularly cared for them except for the one cat that still lives with my parents. I enjoyed analysing him and seeing what he does and doesn´t understand. Even down to such cute questions as why cats pur. It´s a male pedigree Havana Brown Siamese, if you´re wondering. http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/havana_brown.jpg

Diane Fosse and Jane Goodall are really kind, passionate, beautiful people. I don´t really see how they have anything to do with this discussion, or your point which seems to be that animals are more moral than people, despite the harshness of nature.

I gave some examples of cruel animals and you´re basically saying that they don´t count, since they are almost as smart as humans. I´m not very impressed by high "morality" brought about by stupidity and a lacking of consciousness to even be immoral with in the first place.

 

[musclemom]

I owned about 5 animals or so. I´ll admit I never particularly cared for them except for the one cat that still lives with my parents. I enjoyed analysing him and seeing what he does and doesn´t understand. Even down to such cute questions as why cats pur. It´s a male pedigree Havana Brown Siamese, if you´re wondering. http://www.moggies.co.uk/breeds/havana_brown.jpg

Diane Fosse and Jane Goodall are really kind, passionate, beautiful people. I don´t really see how they have anything to do with this discussion, or your point which seems to be that animals are more moral than people, despite the harshness of nature.

I gave some examples of cruel animals and you´re basically saying that they don´t count, since they are almost as smart as humans. I´m not very impressed by high "morality" brought about by stupidity and a lacking of consciousness to even be immoral with in the first place.

Oh pffft. One neutered tomcat tells you all you need to know about animal husbandry? I have 7 females, half are not neutered. I've learned more with this current colony than I ever did about cats and I've owned cats all my life, which is longer than you've been breathing, in addition to managing a breeding facility for a few years. With the single gender and they have free run of the house, their variation in breeability (some neutered, some whole) and ages (from 1 yr to 10+ years), there are more social dynamics. One cat taken out of context is not a social model.

I've owned: horses, ponies, cattle, goats, ferrets, dogs, birds, fish, rats, guinea pigs, one hedgehog, mice, dormice, flying squirrels ... I was teaching horseback riding and handling pedigreed german shepards ten years before you were a twinkle in your mother's eye.

Animals are not cruel, because cruelty is an abstract concept requiring intent. Animals do not possess the capacity for abstract thought (which is why they do not understand the concept of time).

I never said animals are more or less moral than people. I said they do not do certain things and there must be a logical reason because their motives are PURE. They don't think "oooo, I can't eat that, it's another predator," they think, "yuck smells bad not good food."

You hypothesize and extrapolate on what I've said and draw some really fucked up conclusions. Animals do not have human IQ, they don't have frontal lobes, they are incapable of many intellectual functions that humans take for granted, except maybe for the great apes and dolphins, and it is fascinating how these species, who we have proven can learn things verging on human capacity, are the ones who will engage in acts that most animals wouldn't do.

Here, everyone needs a good reason not to eat a predator, or be a cannibal, here's a good one: Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease.

Hiatt, you're an intellectual asshole. Go measure you're penis.

 

[Hiatussin]

I did not claim to have learnt animal psychology from my cat. Or to have learnt it at all, even. I just said I find it interesting. I find more things interesting than I will ever have time to learn about.

 

[musclemom]

I did not claim to have learnt animal psychology from my cat. Or to have learnt it at all, even. I just said I find it interesting. I find more things interesting than I will ever have time to learn about.

Having an interest in something is a world apart from having any knowledge of it. And just because someone doesn't have a college degree in something and can't quote chapter and verse in some scholarly textbook doesn't mean they are fools.

Most of the highly successful animal trainers, the so-called horse whisperers and dog-whisperers, never went to college, or read book one. They just respected the animals.

You rarely exhibit respect for your own species.

 

[BrothaBill]

Having an interest in something is a world apart from having any knowledge of it. And just because someone doesn't have a college degree in something and can't quote chapter and verse in some scholarly textbook doesn't mean they are fools.

Most of the highly successful animal trainers, the so-called horse whisperers and dog-whisperers, never went to college, or read book one. They just respected the animals.

You rarely exhibit respect for your own species.

that's why they think they can 'whisper' to horses or dogs, b/c they are ignorant.
Same behavior can be replicated scientifically with a laymen in a few hours. There is nothing to it and I grew up around horses so you don't hold some argumentary sword about experience to throw in his face.

The problems are generally, people "figuring out their own mechanism" with a given animal population.
It hardly carries over as a substantial document, it is so specific and confine to the environment and the subjects (animal and trainer) that is completely worthless in any discussion.

Discussion of accepted behaviorial traits may offer some insight or discussion on the matter but the anectdotal stuff of "...I had...." is always dismissed in the advanced world b/c of the fallacies it often entails.

I could point out numerous examples as to why anectdotal evidence is very poor in an educated debate but I said I didn't want to bicker. But if you are going to argue, you should learn what is generally accepted or not accepted b/c it prevents me having to list numerous examples of why logic you are using are flawed and discounted.
It would save me time

 

[musclemom]

that's why they think they can 'whisper' to horses or dogs, b/c they are ignorant.
Same behavior can be replicated scientifically with a laymen in a few hours. There is nothing to it and I grew up around horses so you don't hold some argumentary sword about experience to throw in his face.

The problems are generally, people "figuring out their own mechanism" with a given animal population.
It hardly carries over as a substantial document, it is so specific and confine to the environment and the subjects (animal and trainer) that is completely worthless in any discussion.

Discussion of accepted behaviorial traits may offer some insight or discussion on the matter but the anectdotal stuff of "...I had...." is always dismissed in the advanced world b/c of the fallacies it often entails.

I could point out numerous examples as to why anectdotal evidence is very poor in an educated debate but I said I didn't want to bicker. But if you are going to argue, you should learn what is generally accepted or not accepted b/c it prevents me having to list numerous examples of why logic you are using are flawed and discounted.
It would save me time

Don't encourage him Bill. At least you'll give someone credit that MAYBE once in a great while granted, that a NON intellectual and/or female is capable of making a rational argument.

I've NEVER claimed to be capable of holding my own against you, Hiatt or lots of other "smart people" on the board when it comes to intellectual arguments. Hiatt has been on a high horse all damn day and it started with him managing to mention that children have no value because you can't paint the walls with their brains or have sex with them, and how stupid celebrating Easter was, in the same post.

But be reasonable, do you really think you can take an ice cold laymen, slap an animal husbandry textbook in his hands, and have him bringing an animal under control, training it? Pulling up the horse whisperer was a dirty card, I admit, but there are trainers out there like that, that good, I've seen em. There are people that animals respond to and will practically walk on water for, it is what it is. I have a cat that responds to my verbal commands. My husband tries the same thing she looks at him like he's stupid

BTW, curiousity, what kind of horses?

But anyway, I've admitted I know I don't have an IQ to compare with Hiatt, but brains ain't everything.

And Bill, I've met a whole lot of doctors that are major assholes. Rude, thoughtless, disrespectful, insular, lacking compassion, empathy, and apparently basic human warmth. Robot physicians.

I have a doctor I work for, I call him "Dr. Asshole." He bitches because his transcription has the occasional blank spot, without understanding (or apparently, caring) that if he would not talk WHILE he is actively burping, eating or yawning while the tape is running he wouldn't have these blank spots. He doesn't seem to understand, or care, there's another human being on the other side of that tape. He spells words you can find in Webster's dictionary (regular words, mind you, not medical terms) and blows through drug names, mispronouncing them HORRIFICALLY, while saying them quickly and not giving me a clue what kind of drug it is or what the drugs purpose it is. None of this would happen if he stopped to realize another person was listening to this ...

And I won't even start with how heartless the fuckers that "took care" of my mother were ... let's say I nearly was removed from the hospital by security because I verbally jumped on a resident. The nurses, however, took me aside later and said everything I said was true and vindicated.

Robot doctors with superiority complexes the world does NOT need more of.

 

[JayC9]

Yes but I'd rather it didn't resemble the animal in form. Sliced meat all pretty much looks the same, only differences are the taste and texture.

Could I go round the back of the stables to slaughter old Nelly, roast her on a spit and then chow down? Probably not.

It definitely has something to do with how you were raised, what you consider the norm or taboo etc etc. Was in the town of Mae Sot (border town close to Burma) about a year ago. Found a little old lady sitting in the market barbequing smallish animals. Couldn't quite make out what animal it was? About to ask her when my eyes focused on the basket of rats behind her. She asks me if I'd like to try one...no thanks. Sat and watched the stall for a bit to see what sort of people go to a market to buy cooked rat. Imagine getting home from a days work and asking the wife what's for dinner 'got a nice piece of vermin and some rice ready on the stove my love.'

We had a live in maid once that kept screwing up the simplest of tasks. One day the wife makes her eat one of those big double winged moths alive as a punishment. The maid stuffs this fat hairy moth in her mouth and walks away with a grin. Apparently they're considered a delicacy in her home town?

 

[Hiatussin]

And I won't even start with how heartless the fuckers that "took care" of my mother were ... let's say I nearly was removed from the hospital by security because I verbally jumped on a resident. The nurses, however, took me aside later and said everything I said was true and vindicated.

I can totally imagine you in there. The nurses are experienced and would do and say anything to shut you up. Although yes, I know they often hold grudges against the doctors.

I don´t think the best way to get taken seriously is to verbally attack someone for not believing what you´re saying.

Robot doctors with superiority complexes the world does NOT need more of

What if... just hypothetically, YOU´re the one with an INFERIORITY complex? Is that possible?

Looking at the cue lists for patients in countries with socialised health care, and the poor who can´t even afford health care in the other countries- I´d say a few hundred thousand rational, fast working doctors is exactly what the world needs, filling up the gaps and lowering the market price.

If all doctors here today would start to drink tea and talk about feelings as well as the body of their patients, in no time only millionaires could afford them at all. and I don´t even want that. When I go to a hairdresser I go to the cheapest one in town, who happens to only cut men, I tell him what I want, he does it, typically in under 5 minutes, I tell him good day and I´m gone. Cheaper and nicer than listening to some hairdressers crap who I have nothing in common with.

 

[Hiatussin]

You rarely exhibit respect for your own species.

I disagree.

 

[LintRoller]

Anyone ever check out Andrew Zimmerman? I'm sure he's eaten a few race horses in his day, not to mention any of the nastiest things you could ever imagine.

With that said, I'll try any meat once, as long as its safe to eat. If that guy can do it, so can I .