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sausage said:
If you cant afford the extra for Clomid therapy after dont start cycle then. TAke the extra step and save the $$$ for it. NO reason to taper with the therapy system now.
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Whats So Wrong With Tapering Off Cycle?
- Thread starter OMEGA
- Start date
If you cant afford the extra for Clomid therapy after dont start cycle then. TAke the extra step and save the $$$ for it. NO reason to taper with the therapy system now.
There may be a benefit to tapering. When your test levels are normal you have normal receptor site density, but after about 8 weeks this is reduced substantially- which could be one of the reasons in research that people who cycled for 12-16 weeks had no better gains than those who cycled for 8 weeks. So if you tapered it might return you to normal receptor site density no faster than stopping then doing clomid, nolva,etc, but you might keep your gains more easily. of course, this is only practical if you are like me and only do a cycle once or twice a year when you hit a plateau. Tapering would be of no benefit I could see for those who cycle 8weeks, off 8 weeks and then go right back on. The other benefit would be that you could still use low dosages and see good gains if your diet and training were in order, instead of having to up your doses up and up just to see any gains.
Jeezus ... so much folklore out there. Many guys need to read a lot more before posting as "experts". Or at least qualify their answers. I don't consider myself an expert or a biological chemist or whatever, but here is MY understanding.
This stuff about "its self-tapering" may be true but it's not the point.
People USED to think that if you were taking high levels of test for example, that maybe if you "tapered" down somewhat, that your body would recognize that, and start once again to kick its natural test production back in.
The problem is that even when "tapered" down, there is still WAY too much test being given, too much in your system, for yor body to start to signal itself to "start up" again.
Regardless of what level of Test you were/are taking, it is necessary that ALL of that injected Test be used up for a short while, before your body will do anything at all to start back up again.
For example if you are doing maybe 500mg/week of cypionate. Your body sees that much test, and your natural test (HTPA axis, all that stiff which gets a bit more complex than I will get into) is stopped.
Now if you drop to say 400, 300 200, etc ....... the old theory was that your body would go "hm, ... that external test I am getting is dropping, maybe I should start up again ...". Thats BULL it does NOT work. You would STILL need to wait like 2+ weeks after that last week of 200 mg before you could get HTPA and natural test started up again.
So if you final 4 weeks look like this:
500 500 500 500
or
500 400 300 200
it still does not matter in terms of HTPA recovery, because your body will STILL need a good 2+ weeks after that last week before you will get your ntarual test (HTPA, etc etc etc) to start to kick back in.
So again, in that second example, it does not "sorta start back up due to tapering levels". Thats BS.
Now, since in BOTH scenarios above, you will STILL have to wait like 2-3 weeks after that last shot of test to start HTPA going again .... then the question is - why waste or lessen the effectiveness of those final weeks?
Meaning, if you had an 8 week cycle that looked like one of these:
Straight Taper
500 500
500 500
500 500
500 500
500 500
500 400
500 300
500 200
x x
x x
Clomid St. Clomid St.
... starting Clomid in week 11 ... then why would you bother lessening the effectiveness of weeks 6-8 by tapering? It does not help you at all! You STILL have to wait a few weeks (to week 11) to start Clomid!
Now personally I think there IS an issue with the DOSE AMOUNT causing a delay in how long you wait before taking Clomid. For example if a guy was taking 1,500 mg a week of Test, it may take 21 days for it to get metabolized enough so that the levels were low enough so that starting Clomid would actually work. If the guy was taking mayke 300mg/week he might only have to wait like 18 days or something. But thats not due to "tapering". That is just because it may taken the body a bit longer to lessen its test levels far enough for Clomid to be effective, when a very high dose of test was being administered.
So, tapering does NOT help you to recover more quickly.
Given that, then it makes no sesne, becuase it only would lessen the effectivess of the final few eeks of the cycle. And frankly, if you are going to do that (see 8 week example above) you would probably be better off just shortening the cycle anyway.
This stuff about "its self-tapering" may be true but it's not the point.
People USED to think that if you were taking high levels of test for example, that maybe if you "tapered" down somewhat, that your body would recognize that, and start once again to kick its natural test production back in.
The problem is that even when "tapered" down, there is still WAY too much test being given, too much in your system, for yor body to start to signal itself to "start up" again.
Regardless of what level of Test you were/are taking, it is necessary that ALL of that injected Test be used up for a short while, before your body will do anything at all to start back up again.
For example if you are doing maybe 500mg/week of cypionate. Your body sees that much test, and your natural test (HTPA axis, all that stiff which gets a bit more complex than I will get into) is stopped.
Now if you drop to say 400, 300 200, etc ....... the old theory was that your body would go "hm, ... that external test I am getting is dropping, maybe I should start up again ...". Thats BULL it does NOT work. You would STILL need to wait like 2+ weeks after that last week of 200 mg before you could get HTPA and natural test started up again.
So if you final 4 weeks look like this:
500 500 500 500
or
500 400 300 200
it still does not matter in terms of HTPA recovery, because your body will STILL need a good 2+ weeks after that last week before you will get your ntarual test (HTPA, etc etc etc) to start to kick back in.
So again, in that second example, it does not "sorta start back up due to tapering levels". Thats BS.
Now, since in BOTH scenarios above, you will STILL have to wait like 2-3 weeks after that last shot of test to start HTPA going again .... then the question is - why waste or lessen the effectiveness of those final weeks?
Meaning, if you had an 8 week cycle that looked like one of these:
Straight Taper
500 500
500 500
500 500
500 500
500 500
500 400
500 300
500 200
x x
x x
Clomid St. Clomid St.
... starting Clomid in week 11 ... then why would you bother lessening the effectiveness of weeks 6-8 by tapering? It does not help you at all! You STILL have to wait a few weeks (to week 11) to start Clomid!
Now personally I think there IS an issue with the DOSE AMOUNT causing a delay in how long you wait before taking Clomid. For example if a guy was taking 1,500 mg a week of Test, it may take 21 days for it to get metabolized enough so that the levels were low enough so that starting Clomid would actually work. If the guy was taking mayke 300mg/week he might only have to wait like 18 days or something. But thats not due to "tapering". That is just because it may taken the body a bit longer to lessen its test levels far enough for Clomid to be effective, when a very high dose of test was being administered.
So, tapering does NOT help you to recover more quickly.
Given that, then it makes no sesne, becuase it only would lessen the effectivess of the final few eeks of the cycle. And frankly, if you are going to do that (see 8 week example above) you would probably be better off just shortening the cycle anyway.
Triple J
New member
I will only comment to my own experience but when finishing a long cycle that included heavy test and primo use as well as dbol and var, I got one of smoothest exits by tapering out using just the var for 5-6 weeks. I think the last week was just like a pill every other day or something. No Clomid or nothing. I was planning on being clean for 5-6 months after.
So I think that tapering out with an oral is a smooth way to exit. It should help to counteract the cortisol rebound and just give your body time to adjust. I think guys who bridge with Proviron, Var, etc are basically doing the same thing.
So like previous poster said it should be an oral with a relatively short half-life taken in the morning. It seems when doctor administer oral hormones for short-term medical uses they always taper out.
My last cycle was just prohromones but it shut me down pretty good. I did not expect this, so went cold turkey and even with Clomid, Arimdex, etc. I had basically two months of depression and mysery. I wish I had Proviron or something on hand during that first 4-5 weeks, I think it would have made a big difference in terms of how bad the crash was.
So I think that tapering out with an oral is a smooth way to exit. It should help to counteract the cortisol rebound and just give your body time to adjust. I think guys who bridge with Proviron, Var, etc are basically doing the same thing.
So like previous poster said it should be an oral with a relatively short half-life taken in the morning. It seems when doctor administer oral hormones for short-term medical uses they always taper out.
My last cycle was just prohromones but it shut me down pretty good. I did not expect this, so went cold turkey and even with Clomid, Arimdex, etc. I had basically two months of depression and mysery. I wish I had Proviron or something on hand during that first 4-5 weeks, I think it would have made a big difference in terms of how bad the crash was.
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