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Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
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Weight: Natural V. Gear

Natural V. Gear----> Mass Differences

  • Gear: 140-160

    Votes: 4 0.6%
  • Gear: 160-180

    Votes: 10 1.6%
  • Gear: 180-200

    Votes: 35 5.5%
  • Gear 200-225

    Votes: 62 9.8%
  • Gear: 225-250

    Votes: 32 5.1%
  • Gear: 250+

    Votes: 18 2.8%
  • Natural: 140-160

    Votes: 48 7.6%
  • Natural: 160-180

    Votes: 89 14.1%
  • Natural: 180-200

    Votes: 138 21.8%
  • Natural: 200-225

    Votes: 113 17.9%
  • Natural: 225-250

    Votes: 49 7.8%
  • Natural: 250+

    Votes: 34 5.4%

  • Total voters
    632
Cornholio said:


Damn right. you take away all the drugs and the same mofo's who were winning oiled will be winning clean.

OK, so you're saying that if you took away all the drugs from EVERYBODY, the same people would win? I agree with that. What I thought you meant by your previous post was that you can reach the same level without drugs, it just takes longer, in which case I disagree.
 
this pole doesn't really make sense...you at least need to include height into the equation, otherwise there is no basis for comparison. It doesn't make sense to compare someone who is 5"6", juices, weighs 190, and is in great shape to someone 6"4", 25% bodyfat and natural, and weighs 250. What does that prove or disprove? You at least need to compare based on height and approximate build, lenght of time working out, diet, genetics, etc. etc.
 
WODIN said:
Links? "El Corn in da dookie".

LOL!!

It's apparently at the gym, I even ran home during luch to look for it...be patient grasshopper.
 
Cornholio said:


LOL!!

It's apparently at the gym, I even ran home during luch to look for it...be patient grasshopper.

I ask because this might be a more suitable route "pour moi" since I now have two babies at home.

So I'm doing the pee pee dance in the long line till you post a link.

*people are starring at me now!*
 
WODIN said:


I ask because this might be a more suitable route "pour moi" since I now have two babies at home.

So I'm doing the pee pee dance in the long line till you post a link.

-
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*people are starring at me now!*
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Wodin - here's is th copy that went in the magazine. I'll put up the references from the abstractif/when I find them


The first Pro-Steroid Delivery System... MAG-10™

The time is right! We've done a lot of work in this area. And, now, for the first time ever, we're ready to talk about it. What follows is a detailed explanation of some of what we've been doing behind closed doors for the last two years. Bottom line, we believe we've actually accomplished what every sport-supplement company has been trying to do since the 80's:

We've designed a safe and highly effective pro-steroid delivery system that works like the real thing!

We're so excited about our discovery that we couldn't wait any longer. It's time for us to unveil this monster for the world to see. We're not going to mince words or equivocate, either. We give you our word that this is not a bunch of hype. We absolutely believe that you'll be blown away with what follows.


Since the 80's, bodybuilders have been using exotic, designer steroids to build bodies that simply put, are not attainable by any other means. Year after year the pros would compete to see who could make the freakiest physique advancements (which is what the sport is all about now). Behind the scenes, conversations switched from discussing the next cool training technique, to talking about what new designer steroid stack the in-the-know clique is using.

Essentially, bodybuilders were beginning to utilize steroids that were engineered to overcome some of the inherent problems caused by taking their androgen levels way over the top. Prior to the 80's, for whatever reason, physique and strength athletes stuck with Testosterone, Deca Durabolin, and Dianabol as their primary choices.

Nobody ever thought about including anti-estrogens in their drug cycles, and finasteride wasn't available until 1988. So, on a serious cycle, estrogen and DHT levels would soar sky high, resulting in a bunch of bloated, bald men walking around with size DD nonnies. Remember Meatloaf in Fight Club?

But that all changed in the 80's. Bodybuilders began to carefully choose their anabolic gear. Winstrol, Primobolan, Parabolan, Equipoise, Anavar, and Anadrol-50 became the preferred choices. Careful attention was placed on stacking synergistic compounds together that would deliver what everyone was after — outrageous size and cuts with minimal side effects.

From the 80's until now, there's been enormous emphasis placed on the fantastic gains that can be attained from steroid use. This fascination has created a demand for anabolic agents that's tantamount to the most-crazed sex drive imaginable. Almost every guy in the muscle world is, in one way or another, fascinated with steroids — even obsessed.

Anyone with just a smidgen of interest in building a buff body believes that their gains would be limited without them. Even though very few actually go that extra step and take "drugs," everyone deep down knows steroids deliver the goods like nothing else, period.

Realizing this, the supplement industry has done everything in its power to either formulate a legitimate steroid alternative, or to make you believe they have. Just look at all the supplements out there with steroid-sounding names.

When you boil it down, sports nutrition as we know it today, wouldn't exist if there weren't this romantic and extreme obsession with steroids. And rightfully so — it's not often in human physiology that such dramatic results can be obtained from a syringe or bottle of pills. It's truly a physique in a bottle.

No matter what you think about steroid use, the fact remains that every single solitary person who uses them achieves a physique that they could otherwise never, ever come close to attaining.

Our goal was to bridge the gap between over-the-counter supplements and real, hardcore androgens — safely as well as effectively. We wanted to design the first pro-steroid delivery system that works like the real deal. Well, we've done it. And not only that, our design soars way past our highest expectations.

MAG-10 not only bridges the gap — it's an equal among true steroids.


First Attempt

Since day one, Biotest has been searching for the ultimate combination of compounds that would actually produce results similar to a serious steroid cycle. Two years ago, I met with Bill Roberts and asked him to develop the most effective prohormone supplement design possible.

I told him that we didn't just want something better. We wanted something that would revolutionize and shock the supplement user. Furthermore, we wanted a formulation that was so over-the-top that it would silence even the most skeptical critics.

We came up with the term pro-steroids to best describe our design goals. And over the last two years, as many of you know, Biotest was able to develop two of these big boys. These are serious androgens that are literally one-step precursors to Testosterone and Nandrolone with 100% efficiency. The names?

Testosterone 17-cyclopent-1'-enyl ether (T-17E)

Nandrolone 17-cyclopent-1'-enyl ether (N-17E)

Both of the compounds truly do exist and have been ready to manufacture for quite some time. However, we opted not to produce T-17E and N-17E due to two basic concerns: First, they could potentially cause significant side effects — gyno, hair loss, prostate enlargement, bloating, and reduced sex drive. And second, neither one worked synergistically with the other.

Both T-17E and N-17E strongly bind to the androgen receptor (AR). In other words, they compete with one another. We call this kind of steroid "Class I." To create a synergy, we need to include the other kind of steroid — which imparts its actions through additional means and doesn't strongly bind to the AR — called "Class II."

To date, the only legal Class-II androgen we've found that meets our criteria — minimum side effects with maximal gains — is 4-androstenediol (4-AD).

Surprisingly enough, 4-AD is 95% as potent as Testosterone, and it turns out that it's a very important steroid in the body: Biotest research uncovered that there's actually more 4-AD in the blood than Testosterone, something that scientists had not generally been aware of. Since it's comparably potent to Testosterone, it has tremendous promise as a legal anabolic, but its effectiveness depends on actually getting enough into the body.

Early products, particularly capsules, weren't effective because so little of the drug reached the blood, and duration of action was short. These problems were largely solved with the introduction of Androsol. Using transdermal delivery, Androsol is able to achieve sustained super-high blood levels of 4-AD (in the ballpark of 3000 ng/dL!) and to produce excellent muscle-building results.

A 5-lb gain in LBM within the first two weeks of use is common, given high protein intake, sufficient calories, and proficient training. Some users have even experienced a 10-lb LBM gain in two weeks!


Big Room for Improvement

While 4-AD in an effective formulation such as Androsol is very good for aiding muscle mass gains, it doesn't represent the optimum anabolic strategy in two regards:

First, there are problems in efficiency of absorption and duration of action. Androsol gave an excellent improvement in duration of action, providing an increase from 3-4 hours to over 12 hours, and produced a stunning improvement in efficiency compared to oral capsules. However, the efficiency still isn't as high as we'd like, as it requires the application of up to a full gram per day to achieve maximal results.

Secondly, like we've already said, it's well known that most anabolic steroids are best utilized when stacked with certain other anabolic steroids. If you hit the right combination, you get a synergistic effect where the sum is greater than the individual parts.

Using just 4-AD by itself is somewhat like using Dianabol by itself — without the estrogen-related side effects, or the hair loss problems. However, no sophisticated steroid user takes Dianabol by itself. Instead, they'll opt for a synergistic combination, like Deca plus Dianabol, which imparts significantly better gains.

The optimum situation is when both the AR-mediated and non-AR-mediated mechanisms are working full speed to build muscle. This is, of course, achieved when sufficient doses of a Class-I steroid are stacked with a Class-II steroid.

So our objectives for our pro-steroid complex MAG-10 became quite clear:

Fix the problems with 4-AD and find a legal Class-I steroid, without estrogen or DHT side effects, to stack it with.

Fixing the problems with 4-AD was surprisingly simple. Bill drew from his drug-design background and blueprinted a powerful one-step solution. He decided to add a chemical structure called a "protective group" onto the 4-AD molecule. We didn't use just any protective group, either. We chose ethylcarbonate ester (EC) for the job. Reason being, it's by far the most efficient "ester" at accomplishing our goals:

EC won't break down in the digestive tract and it's far superior at increasing the absorption rate and extending the active life.

With 4-AD ethylcarbonate ester (4-AD-EC), we were able to dramatically increase efficiency of absorption and duration of action. Combined with our liquid delivery system, we've achieved nearly 100% efficiency with more than 24 hours of active life from one single dose!

Well, that's one down and one to go. All we need is an ideal Class-I androgen to partner up with 4-AD-EC and we'll have our anabolic monster.


The First Legal, Mega-Potent Class-I Androgen

As we mentioned earlier, despite all the work we put into T-17E and N-17E — both Class-I steroids — neither could be made as safe as we insisted they had to be, requiring us to go another route. The interesting thing is, we've had an alternative compound in our possession that we've held in the strictest secrecy until this very moment.

We have another Class-I androgen in the pipeline that's exactly what we want. Animal tests show that it's 2-3 times as potent as Testosterone, and that it doesn't convert to estrogen, DHT, or 5alpha-diol (the DHT metabolite that's implicated in hair loss). It does just exactly what it's supposed to — build muscle without these side effects. You couldn't ask for anything better.

The name of this big-gun Class-I androgen is 17-hydroxyandrost-1-ene-3-one or Androst-1-ene, also erroneously known as "1-Testosterone."

[Editors note: Androst-1-ene is not a form of Testosterone at all. Recently, however, certain individuals in the supplement industry have been loosely referring to it as 1-Testosterone.]

Now, others have attempted to provide Androst-1-ene by manufacturing Androst-1-ene prohormones (not pro-steroids). The first such product was 1-androstenedione. Like 4-androstenedione, it's inherently inactive, which is a real disadvantage, but some small amount of it could convert to Androst-1-ene.

All in all, 1- androstenedione is nothing we'd ever consider using — too little of it converts to Androst-1-ene to allow much anabolic effect, and the great majority that doesn't convert is completely inactive and wasted.

Basically, this product flopped, and was swiftly replaced with 1-androstenediol (1-AD), with the hope that the conversion would be more efficient. 1-AD is somewhat better than 1-androstenedione, but it's still not very potent.

In fact, when injected, it only has 40% the potency of Testosterone. And you only get that much conversion when you use a limited, small amount. As a result of the limitation, there's a "ceiling" to how much effect you can get. And this ceiling is not very high. Orally, it's even worse. Almost all of it is wasted.

In contrast, as mentioned, Androst-1-ene has two or three times the anabolic potency of Testosterone, can't convert into estrogen, and is not affected by the 5alpha-reductase enzyme in the scalp. In other words, there are no DHT, hair-loss, or estrogen problems to be concerned with. And get this: It can reasonably be called a natural, legal analogue to Primobolan — Androst-1-ene is nearly identical in chemical structure and behavior — except that it's more potent!

Why use inefficient diol or dione precursors of Androst-1-ene when you can have the real thing?

The even better approach, however, is to provide Androst-1-ene with the same "protective group" that 4-AD-EC has. Then, when combined with our liquid delivery system, you'll have close to 100% efficiency, increased absorption, and an active life of more than 24 hours! This is legal and precisely what Biotest has done. The finished compound is called Androst-1-ene ethylcarbonate ester (A1-E™).

If you mix 4-AD-EC and A1-E together in a perfect ratio, you have MAG-10. And if you use MAG-10 as recommended, you will absolutely achieve steroid-like gains! We promise.


MAG-10… The Destroyer of All Prohormones

In effect, what we've done is render all other prohormone products completely obsolete. Now, there's no reason whatsoever to use Androsol, 1-AD, 4-AD, or anything else. We know this sounds outrageous and like marketing hype, but it's 100% true!

Biotest has filed patents on both 4-AD-EC and A1-E. So unless we license other companies, Biotest will be the only place you'll be able to get these heavily muscled, nuclear weapons.

As mentioned, MAG-10 is a stack of 4-AD-EC and A1-E that's combined in a special, liquid delivery system. This liquid carrier is killer, too. We contracted a top of the line, high tech, drug-delivery laboratory to design the system. As a result, we're able to orally deliver very close to 100% of the active materials into the blood!

MAG-10 is the culmination of several super-smart scientists who've devoted a total of two years to the project. Everyone involved agrees that the outcome of our efforts goes so far beyond what we ever expected that it's hard to explain in words. Bottom line, MAG-10 will rock your anabolic world like never before.

In summary, MAG-10 is the first and only, legal pro-steroid delivery system that…

• Produces real steroid-like gains through the combination of A1-E and 4-AD-EC — the premier Class I and Class-II androgens.

• Covers all the anabolic bases, achieving optimal muscle-mass gains, without estrogen or DHT side effects.

• Is 100% efficient at converting into active, anabolic compounds.

• Maintains an active life of more than 24 hours from one single dose.

• Provides an advanced oral liquid delivery system, thereby increasing absorption efficiency over any other compound on the market (to the point of "no contest!").
 
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