Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
The hypocracy on this site is unbelievable
- Thread starter IvanOffelitch
- Start date
Strongsmartsexy,
I'm not sure what it is you think my contention is.
Uncertain myself at this point. At first it appeared to be spreading incorrect doctrine off as fact. That's since been addressed. Now it appears to be complaining about your perceived deficiencies in Catholic education and complaining about my nonuse of quotations.
I went through Cathacism and didn't learn any of what you described at all. It wasn't until much later studies I found out the vast array of what composes the beliefs of the Catholic church. Most of that information is unknown or not taught to the masses. No matter how much doctrine, dogman, theology they have in the Catholic church it's what the people who go to church bring away from it that represents what they're taught.
Nice anecdote, but what is your point? As an aside the concept of "invincible ignorance" is part of the Catechism of the Church, which if you were confirmed, is required reading for all.
Um, now this is where things get all hazy and confusing. What exactly IS "good"?
That's for God to judge.
If I knew, I wouldn't have asked. If I am deliberatly asking what I believe I already know, I'll make it clear that I do. Otherwise, I'm asking because I want to know. This medium is not exactly the best at relaying information. What you think you have made clear may be absolute darkness.
A little more care in how you relate to others when discussing sensitive issues is one point. Another might be a more thorough effort at accuracy when presenting facts with which you are not well familiar. A less pedantic view on the use of quotes wouldn't hurt either
I'm not sure what it is you think my contention is.
Uncertain myself at this point. At first it appeared to be spreading incorrect doctrine off as fact. That's since been addressed. Now it appears to be complaining about your perceived deficiencies in Catholic education and complaining about my nonuse of quotations.
I went through Cathacism and didn't learn any of what you described at all. It wasn't until much later studies I found out the vast array of what composes the beliefs of the Catholic church. Most of that information is unknown or not taught to the masses. No matter how much doctrine, dogman, theology they have in the Catholic church it's what the people who go to church bring away from it that represents what they're taught.
Nice anecdote, but what is your point? As an aside the concept of "invincible ignorance" is part of the Catechism of the Church, which if you were confirmed, is required reading for all.
Um, now this is where things get all hazy and confusing. What exactly IS "good"?
That's for God to judge.
If I knew, I wouldn't have asked. If I am deliberatly asking what I believe I already know, I'll make it clear that I do. Otherwise, I'm asking because I want to know. This medium is not exactly the best at relaying information. What you think you have made clear may be absolute darkness.
A little more care in how you relate to others when discussing sensitive issues is one point. Another might be a more thorough effort at accuracy when presenting facts with which you are not well familiar. A less pedantic view on the use of quotes wouldn't hurt either
strongsmartsexy
New member
JerseyArt said:
It would still be nice if you learned how to use quotes on this system. It's easier to parse what's being written and who the quote is attributed to.
Independant of that, I wasn't spreading any doctrine. Catholics are Christians. In education of any form, it's what those who are taught come away with that reflects the teachings. It doesn't matter if it's the Catholics or Protestants or school children. The doctrines of the Catholic and Protestant religions aren't summarized easily in a few paragraphs. And for people to act or portrait the Protestant religions as Christian, but the Catholics as not Christian is utter nonsense.
JerseyArt said:
The point is this. Churches have their doctrines. Goody for them. What people walk out of church as understanding and practice is what they're taught. Whether or not it's relevant to the letter of the doctrines. The doctrines, theologies etc are great for the ministers to debate and carry on intellectual conversations about. But it's what the parishiners walk away with in understanding that is important.
In the example I gave of my mother-in-law, when she talks about the Catholic church and salvation and such, it's from all the years of sitting in church, reading what she's given, and watching on TV. It's the culmination of what she is taught there. She's never been exposed to any other religion. It doesn't matter what the official doctrines are, it matters what she's taught. Actually, it's more than just her as the whole host of friends of hers who go to church are ever vigilant about making sure my wife and I know about being saved and Jesus... at every social gathering in hopes that we'll see the light and not end up in hell. Although if I understand what you're saying below, none of it may matter anyway 'cause God could still judge it as not good enough.
Fortunately for me, I was yanked out of the Catholic Church and schools to go into Lutheran Church and schools. Of course then we had to go pentecostal and then non-denominational...
jerseyart said:
Ah, so no matter what one is taught in church and how good they may seem that's still not a guarantee of getting into heaven 'cause God may judge that to not be good and therefore you're going to hell?
jerseyart said:[A little more care in how you relate to others when discussing sensitive issues is one point. Another might be a more thorough effort at accuracy when presenting facts with which you are not well familiar. A less pedantic view on the use of quotes wouldn't hurt either
"A little more care" Can you be any more vague? Different people have different threshholds of sensitivity. Well, unless of course it's something they firmly believe in.
Which "facts" did you feel were inaccurate? My continued assertion that Catholics ARE Christian?
Quotes are an integral part of the message board system. It helps to distinguish one person's statements from anothers. And they're not all that difficult to use.
strongsmartsexy,
It would still be nice if you learned how to use quotes on this system. It's easier to parse what's being written and who the quote is attributed to.
They never covered how to use quotes in Church, so it isn't my fault if I don't know how.
Independant of that, I wasn't spreading any doctrine. Catholics are Christians.
That's superficially true in as much as all believe in Christ. But there are significant differences between the Catholic faith and other Christian denominations. I imagine that was what people were attempting to communicate.
The two most significant differences, and the most universal, are the precepts of "Bible only" and the issue of works vs faith alone. Neither is Catholic doctrine, and both are significant enough to distinguish Catholics as a faith apart in many respects. A Methodist or a Lutheran can step into just about any other denomination and very little would change, aside from some particulars, that would be cause for any major reevaluation of beliefs. The same is not true for Catholics. This is without even broaching the subject of sacraments, Church authority, Marian doctrine, traditon etc etc etc. The point is that while you are technically right, you are wrong in every other respect. For a Catholic or a Christian of another denomination to switch over would require that they adopt a largely new faith altogether. As someone who has done this, you should be able to appreciate the difference.
In education of any form, it's what those who are taught come away with that reflects the teachings. It doesn't matter if it's the Catholics or Protestants or school children. The doctrines of the Catholic and Protestant religions aren't summarized easily in a few paragraphs. And for people to act or portrait the Protestant religions as Christian, but the Catholics as not Christian is utter nonsense.
See above
The point is this. Churches have their doctrines. Goody for them. What people walk out of church as understanding and practice is what they're taught. Whether or not it's relevant to the letter of the doctrines. The doctrines, theologies etc are great for the ministers to debate and carry on intellectual conversations about. But it's what the parishiners walk away with in understanding that is important.
Your reasoning is fatally flawed. My mom taught me not to sleep with anyone before marriage, as did the Church. The fact that I have repeatedly is not a shortcoming on their part, but my own. Free will prevents the exercise of complete authority over another individual. So while the Church can attempt to steer people in the right direction, ultimately what they choose to do and believe is their own decision.
Further, individuals are selective in what they choose to hear. You can't force them to listen, or to adhere to what they have heard. A good number of Catholics believe personally that abortion is ok, that birth control is acceptable, that premarital sex is no big deal. The Church has been clear on all these issues. By your reasoning however they should be held responsible for any failure on the part of parishioners to adhere to the teachings. That's insane.
In the example I gave of my mother-in-law, when she talks about the Catholic church and salvation and such, it's from all the years of sitting in church, reading what she's given, and watching on TV. It's the culmination of what she is taught there. She's never been exposed to any other religion.
I think you give your grandmother too little credit. She is not a robot that has been preprogrammed to do and say what someone else has dictated. She has chosen her own course. Listened to what she wanted to, and studied what she wished.
It doesn't matter what the official doctrines are, it matters what she's taught. Actually, it's more than just her as the whole host of friends of hers who go to church are ever vigilant about making sure my wife and I know about being saved and Jesus... at every social gathering in hopes that we'll see the light and not end up in hell. Although if I understand what you're saying below, none of it may matter anyway 'cause God could still judge it as not good enough.
Is it so terrible that well intentioned people, however out of place or rude, have chosen to try and help you in a manner they deem necessary? In all the "stress" I have experienced in life, no where near the top of the list involves people trying to do me a good turn, whether I wished them to or not. People trying to rob me, screw me, take advantage of me in some manner yes. People misguidedly trying to help me has never been a cause of great concern.
Fortunately for me, I was yanked out of the Catholic Church and schools to go into Lutheran Church and schools. Of course then we had to go pentecostal and then non-denominational...
Yes or no doubt your life would have been ruined. Think of all the rest of us who weren't lucky enough to be rescued in such a manner.
Ah, so no matter what one is taught in church and how good they may seem that's still not a guarantee of getting into heaven 'cause God may judge that to not be good and therefore you're going to hell?
And your point? In the end is it God who decides, or us? Do the laws exist to enhance us, or shackle us? What is His purpose for creation? Does He love all?
Which "facts" did you feel were inaccurate? My continued assertion that Catholics ARE Christian?
As well as your misrepresentation of Catholic teaching on salvation, and the differences between other Christian denominations regarding salvation. I haven't read all your posts, so there may be more.
It would still be nice if you learned how to use quotes on this system. It's easier to parse what's being written and who the quote is attributed to.
They never covered how to use quotes in Church, so it isn't my fault if I don't know how.
Independant of that, I wasn't spreading any doctrine. Catholics are Christians.
That's superficially true in as much as all believe in Christ. But there are significant differences between the Catholic faith and other Christian denominations. I imagine that was what people were attempting to communicate.
The two most significant differences, and the most universal, are the precepts of "Bible only" and the issue of works vs faith alone. Neither is Catholic doctrine, and both are significant enough to distinguish Catholics as a faith apart in many respects. A Methodist or a Lutheran can step into just about any other denomination and very little would change, aside from some particulars, that would be cause for any major reevaluation of beliefs. The same is not true for Catholics. This is without even broaching the subject of sacraments, Church authority, Marian doctrine, traditon etc etc etc. The point is that while you are technically right, you are wrong in every other respect. For a Catholic or a Christian of another denomination to switch over would require that they adopt a largely new faith altogether. As someone who has done this, you should be able to appreciate the difference.
In education of any form, it's what those who are taught come away with that reflects the teachings. It doesn't matter if it's the Catholics or Protestants or school children. The doctrines of the Catholic and Protestant religions aren't summarized easily in a few paragraphs. And for people to act or portrait the Protestant religions as Christian, but the Catholics as not Christian is utter nonsense.
See above
The point is this. Churches have their doctrines. Goody for them. What people walk out of church as understanding and practice is what they're taught. Whether or not it's relevant to the letter of the doctrines. The doctrines, theologies etc are great for the ministers to debate and carry on intellectual conversations about. But it's what the parishiners walk away with in understanding that is important.
Your reasoning is fatally flawed. My mom taught me not to sleep with anyone before marriage, as did the Church. The fact that I have repeatedly is not a shortcoming on their part, but my own. Free will prevents the exercise of complete authority over another individual. So while the Church can attempt to steer people in the right direction, ultimately what they choose to do and believe is their own decision.
Further, individuals are selective in what they choose to hear. You can't force them to listen, or to adhere to what they have heard. A good number of Catholics believe personally that abortion is ok, that birth control is acceptable, that premarital sex is no big deal. The Church has been clear on all these issues. By your reasoning however they should be held responsible for any failure on the part of parishioners to adhere to the teachings. That's insane.
In the example I gave of my mother-in-law, when she talks about the Catholic church and salvation and such, it's from all the years of sitting in church, reading what she's given, and watching on TV. It's the culmination of what she is taught there. She's never been exposed to any other religion.
I think you give your grandmother too little credit. She is not a robot that has been preprogrammed to do and say what someone else has dictated. She has chosen her own course. Listened to what she wanted to, and studied what she wished.
It doesn't matter what the official doctrines are, it matters what she's taught. Actually, it's more than just her as the whole host of friends of hers who go to church are ever vigilant about making sure my wife and I know about being saved and Jesus... at every social gathering in hopes that we'll see the light and not end up in hell. Although if I understand what you're saying below, none of it may matter anyway 'cause God could still judge it as not good enough.
Is it so terrible that well intentioned people, however out of place or rude, have chosen to try and help you in a manner they deem necessary? In all the "stress" I have experienced in life, no where near the top of the list involves people trying to do me a good turn, whether I wished them to or not. People trying to rob me, screw me, take advantage of me in some manner yes. People misguidedly trying to help me has never been a cause of great concern.
Fortunately for me, I was yanked out of the Catholic Church and schools to go into Lutheran Church and schools. Of course then we had to go pentecostal and then non-denominational...
Yes or no doubt your life would have been ruined. Think of all the rest of us who weren't lucky enough to be rescued in such a manner.
Ah, so no matter what one is taught in church and how good they may seem that's still not a guarantee of getting into heaven 'cause God may judge that to not be good and therefore you're going to hell?
And your point? In the end is it God who decides, or us? Do the laws exist to enhance us, or shackle us? What is His purpose for creation? Does He love all?
Which "facts" did you feel were inaccurate? My continued assertion that Catholics ARE Christian?
As well as your misrepresentation of Catholic teaching on salvation, and the differences between other Christian denominations regarding salvation. I haven't read all your posts, so there may be more.
Similar threads
