Taking steroids before you reach your genetic limit

[silver_shadow]

The problem is the Alfred types usually do think they are eating enough and training properly. When you tell them a bowl of cereal, a shake and a subway sandwich a day isn't going to cut it, they tell you how they couldn't possibly eat anything more. Then when you tell them their cable crossover, hammer strength routine is shit, they either are polite and pretend to listen but go back to the cable routine. Or they just flat out argue with you and tell you what a great routine it is and how his friend's cousin's cousin friend is bigger than you and does that routine.

Not all are like that. There are a few out there who really want to learn and do things right. But those types who do the research and learn the proper way to train, eat and cycle are rarely the ones you see posting here asking if they can drink winny or how to get brad pitt's fight club body before spring break.

As for the 'Brutus' guy, that pretty much sums up the training board. Those guys know their stuff. They eat until they can't eat anymore, train their heart out on compound lifts and rest. Most are bigger and in better shape than here on the anabolic board. They know they could do a little more with steroids, but why bother when they gain so well without.

I do agree, but there are some TRUE Alfreds out there.

I also think that Brutus gets to the point when he is older and producing less natural test that steroids will give him better than 50% gains.

he-he, who says brutus doesn't use AAS. just that he uses it less than alfred (considering a body weight to gms of AAS ratio)

At what age do a man's test levels show a significant drop, and what would you consider "older"? Do you mean a man over 40, or just any guy who's in their late 20's and up?

i read a post some weeks ago. some guy had (late 20s or just about 30) got his testosterone level checked. it seems the doc told him that many guys over 25 have such low testosterone that they'd be HRT candidates. this is a bit surprising, but if i'm not mistaken, factors like stress (job/bills and such things) & pollution (just off the top of my head) can result in significant reduction in endogeneous test production.

 

[cyrex]

he-he, who says brutus doesn't use AAS. just that he uses it less than alfred (considering a body weight to gms of AAS ratio)

Brutus doesn't use AAS.. I SAY lol I made the dude up..

 

[immortalis]

DUDE you didn't read it.. you posted less than 1 min after I posted this...

CHEATER

I can speed-read, yo!



Im even more dangerous when words scroll, and I dont have to turn pages! MWAHAHAhahahaha

 

[steelmass]

Now I would like to point out that the advice "you should wait until you get to weight X before starting a cycle" is almost always spot on, but NOT for the reason that they need to meet a 'genetic limit', but because these people typically are not bothering with their NTVMG. They aren't eating enough, training right, getting enough rest, or any combination of those. While, I still do not think that someone who wants results fast should wait until they do get to their NTVMG and reach that magic weight naturally, I only think that they need to get their diet, training, etc down and make it a habit before starting steroids. This may only be 2 months of training for the hardcore and fast learners. Some of the people out there don't learn too quick and it may take them 4 years, but I do not see the logic behind giving arbitrary numbers like the following:
Wait until you are over 25 years old and have 4 years of hard training and diet under your belt. That, in my opinion, is simply a waste of 4 years for someone who is dedicated and wants optimum results as soon as possible.

I agree. I think one can start the second they get their NTVMG correct, which takes time.

 

[njmuscleguy]

For me I just wanted to see what i could do with what god gave me. I always looked apon guys in my gym that used AAS and had no idea so they would blow up then loose it all. I took pride in the fact I was natty and just as big or as hard as all the other people. I knew in my heart i did this alone with no "help" and that was good enough for me.

Then I came on here and saw what a smart laid out cycle could do AND that with AAS i could look pretty damn good. I know I could not look like machine/mak/carth without AAS so i decide to do it.

But I waited until I was ready both mentally,physically and nutritionally before i started. I was happy with my first now on my second and things are going well, i have my goals and there is no rush I plan on being on the earth for a while longer

You and I sound like twins - that's exactly what I would've said. For years, before starting my first cycle (I was 29!), it was awesome hearing people ask me "You're juicing right?" And I would just smile and say "Nope!" It was a great sense of accomplishment even though I knew most people didn't believe me! And I would laugh thinking: "Ok, I'm really not that big and these guys think I'm on something.... imagine if I actually WERE juicing?"

It just goes to show that people don't train long or hard enough naturally because they feel the only way they're going to get any sort of body is by juicing. And these may well also be the same people that feel they've hit their "limit" (they haven't!) and jump on board too quickly. I have to admit, I've gained more muscle and weight now, being "off", than during any of my 2 previous cycles... (but that's a story for another time!).

 

[Pro80]

Very good post cyrex...i understand what your trying to say...i totally agree.

 

[cyrex]

You and I sound like twins - that's exactly what I would've said. For years, before starting my first cycle (I was 29!), it was awesome hearing people ask me "You're juicing right?" And I would just smile and say "Nope!" It was a great sense of accomplishment even though I knew most people didn't believe me! And I would laugh thinking: "Ok, I'm really not that big and these guys think I'm on something.... imagine if I actually WERE juicing?"

It just goes to show that people don't train long or hard enough naturally because they feel the only way they're going to get any sort of body is by juicing. And these may well also be the same people that feel they've hit their "limit" (they haven't!) and jump on board too quickly. I have to admit, I've gained more muscle and weight now, being "off", than during any of my 2 previous cycles... (but that's a story for another time!).

I absolutely agree with both of you guys on this if you are one of those people (and there are tons out there) that are doing this for the accomplishment factor. "Look what I have done with my hardwork!"
Unfortunately when I know I can get something done faster and I'm not giving up much to get it faster, I'm willing to go the easy route within reason ;-)

But I have much more respect for you two guys than I would for someone like myself.

 

[dugie65]

You need to read more carefully you are comparing steroid use directly to ordinary workouts... that is not what I said.
I said when the GAINS of steroid use COMPARED TO HARDWORK (proper diet, training, etc) is GREATER than the hardwork compared to normal lifestyle.

comparing the difference, not comparing using steroids to not using steroids.

Your interpretation of my formula is completely wrong:

Mine
X - Y > Y - Z
Yours
X > Z

Also, please reread the post.. I'm not talking about Jim who weighs 160 lbs and eats like shit but when he does a cycle his diet is on track, or even Greg who does a cycle and still eats like shit..

i'm talking about someone who knows how to diet and DOES IT already, knows how to train and DOES IT already. That guy. And he may NOT have been doing this for the last 3 years consecutively, but does have the knowledge and determination to do it and continue to do it.

so how long is enough?
6mo, 1yr, 18 mo. of training?

c'mon man, steroids are the most hardcore thing out there - not something to be used as supplementation.

Just because you can get there quicker doesnt mean it's safe. IMO all users should wait until they are at least approaching their genetic potential.

 

[cyrex]

dugie65 you are completely missing my point
I'm saying there is no amount of time to use for people

it all depends on the person and whether or not using steroids will be the most efficient for them.

For many people it might take years of hard training and dieting and dedication, for others less.. it depends

 

[dugie65]

dugie65 you are completely missing my point
I'm saying there is no amount of time to use for people

i'm not 'missing the point'..

just trying to play devil's advocate.