Taking steroids before you reach your genetic limit

[cyrex]

I figured I might bring this post back to life one last time to see if there is any additional discussion on this.

 

[forget_genetics]

Good post. I agree with what your saying. As long as you know how to work out and actually understand how much you do need to eat and not just say im eating stacks when your not. As long as your building muscle without aas and can keep up the routine of working out I dont see a problem starting before you reach your genetic limit. (as long as your not underage). I can honestly say almost everyone on here probably never waited till they reached their limit before they jumped on the juice. I never was and started on just dianabol 50mg a day (high dose I know) for 4 weeks and gained 10lbs. It just speeds things up. Some experienced lifters dont like people doing that cause they spent years in the gym gaining all this muscle and getting lean when this so called newbie comes along and with a strict diet and training regeme their just as big as they are in less than half the time.
Just my two cents.

 

[-SD-]

Im almost 35 I aint waiting

 

[jumpmaster82]

This is a good post and a great topic that isn't talked about near enough.

 

[Vancouver]

This is a fantastic thread!!!

I'm one of those guys who's researching their fist cycle, I'm also one of those guys who's nowhere near their genetic limit. The guys who are currently using to get past their genetic limit would argue that I shouldn't even consider using. My argument would be that my limit is not genetic, but lifestyle and circumstance, my genetics weren't great to begin with (but not terrible). Performance enhancers will get me past my barriers to success, but for different reasons than the guy trying to max out. Just like the 155 lbs MMA contender has a different reason for using...

My background. I'm 36, currently 5'8" 175 lbs and 18-20% BF. I've trained weights off and on since I was 16. I was extremely athletic until age 20 and remained moderately athletic until age 34. I was in the best shape of my life at age 29, 165 lbs and 8% BF, so I carried around 15 lbs more lean muscle than the average guy my hight. I had to work my ass off with good nutrition and supplements to achieve this. I'm a very experienced lifter. Fast forward 7 years; I have 4 kids, 2 businesses and work around 60-70 hrs/week, one day you wake up, walk onto your office, look at the pile of paperwork and emails in you in-box and wonder how this happened. I have not seriously lifted in 4 years and in the past 3 years I've gained at least 20 lbs of fat and lost 10 lbs of muscle. I would not trade my kids and business success for the body I once had, but I'd like it back (it literally took 10 years to get it). This will never happen without some help and trust me I'm not looking for an easy fix, I'm being realistic. My hormones were at their best when I was 29, my current business drive and stress as a result of it, does not improve my hormone profile. I'm not looking at doing major high dose stacks, just enough low dose non aromatizing agent that will equal the playing field with the 20 somethings. Honestly I'm not interested in waiting another 5 years to get the results I want. I will of course train hard for 3-4 moths before starting.

So I'm looking at doing 2 cycles over 12-15 months, low-moderate dose Primo (200-400mg/week) or Anavar(30-40mg/day). If I can add 10-15 lbs of lean muscle and lose 10 lbs of fat at the same time, I will be extremely pleased.

I do have a few questions though. I keep hearing that your first cycle should alway be test only; apart from cost, why would I not stick with the above mentioned options. I have read that i should replace my natural test during the cycle and this makes sense, so I was thinking of addding 50-100mg of test. I just have not read a real good reason to start with test only (for my particular goals).

I've read posts that state once you start, you can't go back...Why? Why can I not do a few low dose cycles to knock a few years off my training and go back to training natural like it never happened. I haven't read anything about dependency, once your natural hormone levels return. Is this just a figure of speech directed at those young kids that want to juice up and gain 20 lbs in 8-12 weeks...

Thanks for you comments and any advice

 

[soupeater]

bump and so as not to create more threads...

for all of us who are like 'vancouver' above and just looking to knock a few years off our training, or gradually add 10 pounds of lean mass to our frames, get a great beach body, whatever... but who have not reached our genetic potential yet - what conservative cycles would you reccomend and why? obviously there are different goals for different users so hopefully we can address the goals of the above mentioned group. also, since we have not reached our genetic potential would it be more realistic for the gains made on cycle to remain (of course talking of lean quality gains, not bulking cycle mass gains) than for the user who has pushed past his genetic potential (all other things being the same)? interesting thought..

 

[stevesmi]

bump and so as not to create more threads...

for all of us who are like 'vancouver' above and just looking to knock a few years off our training, or gradually add 10 pounds of lean mass to our frames, get a great beach body, whatever... but who have not reached our genetic potential yet - what conservative cycles would you reccomend and why? obviously there are different goals for different users so hopefully we can address the goals of the above mentioned group. also, since we have not reached our genetic potential would it be more realistic for the gains made on cycle to remain (of course talking of lean quality gains, not bulking cycle mass gains) than for the user who has pushed past his genetic potential (all other things being the same)? interesting thought..

a conservative cycle can be achieved different ways but here is my 2 cents

1. a short cycle. like <10 weeks
2. a low side roid like deca or anavar
3. test, but not a ton of it
4. a solid PCT and time off to recover
5. supps to use on and to bridge until your next cycle

also in regards to the thread, unless you want to be posting "i only gained 1 pound on my cycle whats wrong?" or "I cant get stronger after 5 weeks, when should this kick in?" then you should wait until your diet and training is as sharp as a needle. this way you wont blow a G and waste your time.

 

[needtogetaas]

a conservative cycle can be achieved different ways but here is my 2 cents

1. a short cycle. like <10 weeks
2. a low side roid like deca or anavar
3. test, but not a ton of it
4. a solid PCT and time off to recover
5. supps to use on and to bridge until your next cycle

also in regards to the thread, unless you want to be posting "i only gained 1 pound on my cycle whats wrong?" or "I cant get stronger after 5 weeks, when should this kick in?" then you should wait until your diet and training is as sharp as a needle. this way you wont blow a G and waste your time.

deca is not so low side for some. But good info non the less my friend.

 

[soupeater]

thanks steve

 

[cyrex]

man this was a long time ago.