Taking steroids before you reach your genetic limit

[cyrex]

interesting views, i believe you should at least have a verry solid foundation before considering steroids, its jus sickining to hear when a guy wants bigger biceps and never did a squat in his life but wants to use gear. im 34yrs old and never used till i was 33, but thinking back to when i was in my prime all natural in my twenties i wonder what i would of been......hmmmmm

absolutely!
I'm not saying that any 19 yr old newb should jump in after a year of going to the weight room 3x a week.

For example I took the plunge myself a few months ago. I'm 24 I weighed 258 lbs @ 6'4" 15-16% bf I've had some injuries in the past and 1 year ago I was up to 301 lbs with a lot of fat. I worked hard, dropped that fat got my diet back on track where it should be for regular maintenance and trained hard. I decided I wanted to grow some muscle faster and went on a cycle. I've gained around 40 lbs (muscle, fat, water, whatever) but my bodyfat is down 1-2%, my pants are fitting looser and my strength has increased by 40%+

Am I at my 'genetic limit' absolutely not. Could I have gotten these gains without injecting testosterone? Absolutely. It would have taken longer though.

I have a great solid background in training. I wrestled in high school, threw shot and discus and had access to the best high school gym in the state which I used 4-5 times a week. I continued that commitment to the gym while I was in college but destroyed my knee in an intramural football game. I gained 50-60 lbs over the course of the year that I was injured, had surgery and was in PT, but I got off my butt and got back in gear again.

I had a solid background in training, I have a solid understanding of proper nutrition and diet, and I understand all the aspects of what taking steroids involves and more specifically EXACTLY what could happen with the substances I decided to use well before I began.

 

[cyrex]

Good post brah. If training, diet, knowledge of AAS and how to safely us them were not an issue, I would agree 100% with this.

Exactly. That is a given. Training, diet, knowledge of the AAS, all are definite requirements as well as pure dedication.

 

[DieselGunz]

For me I just wanted to see what i could do with what god gave me. I always looked apon guys in my gym that used AAS and had no idea so they would blow up then loose it all. I took pride in the fact I was natty and just as big or as hard as all the other people. I knew in my heart i did this alone with no "help" and that was good enough for me.

Then I came on here and saw what a smart laid out cycle could do AND that with AAS i could look pretty damn good. I know I could not look like machine/mak/carth without AAS so i decide to do it.

But I waited until I was ready both mentally,physically and nutritionally before i started. I was happy with my first now on my second and things are going well, i have my goals and there is no rush I plan on being on the earth for a while longer

 

[cyrex]

Ive seen many young guys start steroids before they have even a year of hard training naturally. These people usually end up only lifting consistently when they are on. They find the work:reward ratio way too low when they are natural and so their motivation lacks. They havent built up the experience of lifting naturally, and are not accustomed to the condition. When they go back 'on" again they hit the gym with more vigor, but as soon as its time to go off you dont see them in the gym again for months. Their physique never really advances much because they loose most of their gains when natural since they dont lift consistently. Eventually they stop bodybuilding altogether, years down the road.

you describe 2 of my coworkers exactly. One is this guy and the other one is convinced he is gonna go on an EQ cycle to look good for his ex GF who is coming to visit in 8 weeks. They talk to me about it, but they do not fully know what I know about AAS or that I am currently using them. I am urging him to NOT bother with the EQ at all and just diet properly, but he absolutely will not listen. This guy played semi-pro soccer when he was in college, but now he has a bit of a belly and chubby face. I'd put him at about 22-25% bf at the moment. He does NOT workout in the gym ever. He did get a membership a year ago and went to play raquet ball about 5 or 6 times and he plays coed sports throughout the year but that is the extent of his exercise. I don't know if this guy even knows how to build a basic workout routine and he is convinced a cycle of EQ will do him good.

If he hadn't paid so much for the EQ he got 4 months ago (he paid at least 5x) I'd see if he would sell it to me for his cost and have him use that $$ to go out and buy the foods he needs to get his diet in check. But there is absolutely no way I'd pay that much for some EQ lol. I know he doesn't have any sort of PCT planned even though I told him to not consider a cycle without it.

 

[cyrex]

Genetic Limit can only be 100% accurately measured in retrospect, no? So waiting for your "genetic limit" to be reached means you're constantly waiting for what? An arbitrary time length period of no gaining? I think that's kind of silly.

And yes, you can fuck more hot girls, if you look better-sooner. Thats a given...

hehe.. exactly, but even the imaginary 'genetic limit' that happens when a 5'8" guy gets to when he is 26 years old and 220 lbs (as commonly mentioned in various threads on this and many other boards)

Although I'm not saying that we shouldn't be telling people to get up to 200 lbs, I'm saying our reasons are WRONG. We should say get up to 200 lbs naturally as a generic way to gain the experience and knowledge they do not have yet. But yet there are those guys out there at 5'8" 150 lbs that have a good 3-4 years of smart training under their belt, have been on a proper bulking diet a few times and eating properly the rest of the time for maintenance, but have only been back in the gym for 3 or 4 months because of personal problems, working too much, medical problems, etc that I think are great candidates for steroids if they so choose to get where they want to be faster.

 

[cyrex]

Good post bro i skimmed over it honestly.
Ill tell you i think its fair to say that people should wait till they know what they are doing and know what kind of gains they get naturally so that they appreciate the extra they get while on.

Great point to touch on! I hadn't though of that one. The whole appreciation aspect. I fully agree with a requirement that they need to know what they are doing, I'd like to address the appreciation aspect with an analogy:

Erica gives worst blowjobs
Jenny gives the best blowjobs

PJ should get blowjobs from Erica for a year before ever getting one from Jenny so that he can appreciate how good Jenny's blowjobs are.

LOL it was the best I could come up with. Now assume that PJ got some mediocre blowjobs for years from Adrienne, I think he should just go ahead and skip Erica and go for Jenny right away . . . lol

 

[cyrex]

You know you've reached your limits when u stay either at the same weight or you don't move up in strentgh when you've been lifting hard and dieting etc..

I can almost promise you that anyone at this point who is not a professional natty bodybuilder can do SOMETHING to get gains happening again.

 

[letsrun4it]

I think the main reason is many guys on here want to achieve a look that is absolutely possible naturally. Yesterday someone posted a pic of a guy and asked if it was possible naturally and he was 185 pounds!

 

[cyrex]

Unfortunately, what you are doing is posting hypothetical situations, not testimony.




I do not see how this point is relevant in any way whatsoever.

Of course steroids will give you an advantage in gaining muscle over ordinary workouts...

You need to read more carefully you are comparing steroid use directly to ordinary workouts... that is not what I said.
I said when the GAINS of steroid use COMPARED TO HARDWORK (proper diet, training, etc) is GREATER than the hardwork compared to normal lifestyle.

comparing the difference, not comparing using steroids to not using steroids.

Your interpretation of my formula is completely wrong:

Mine
X - Y > Y - Z
Yours
X > Z

Also, please reread the post.. I'm not talking about Jim who weighs 160 lbs and eats like shit but when he does a cycle his diet is on track, or even Greg who does a cycle and still eats like shit..

i'm talking about someone who knows how to diet and DOES IT already, knows how to train and DOES IT already. That guy. And he may NOT have been doing this for the last 3 years consecutively, but does have the knowledge and determination to do it and continue to do it.

 

[cyrex]

I think the main reason is many guys on here want to achieve a look that is absolutely possible naturally. Yesterday someone posted a pic of a guy and asked if it was possible naturally and he was 185 pounds!

huh?...