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overweight newbs. read this.
- Thread starter bigtravis
- Start date
hammercurls
New member
good info
M
Mr.X
Guest
They don't need supplements, drugs, or books.
What they need is the search button, diet, diet, diet, cardio, cardio and more cardio.
Most people should NOT even consider steroids until they are 10% bodyfat, over 26years old and have at least 10 years of training.
What they need is the search button, diet, diet, diet, cardio, cardio and more cardio.
Most people should NOT even consider steroids until they are 10% bodyfat, over 26years old and have at least 10 years of training.
Agent Dana Scully
New member
Ok, im 15, 50% fat, had cancer of the thyroid, and i have ADHD, where do i start?
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Mr.X
Guest
Agent Dana Scully said:
you can start by stopping the posting of BS in a serious thread, unless you're looking for a bombing
hankes64
New member
I agree that newbs shouldnt use AAS until they met all the quals such as max potential, had their diet down to a science, over 22 years old, and researched for atleast 2 years. But I do not agree with the bodyfat. Some people choose to powerlift. As we all know powerlifters aren't known for being exactly cut. Matter of fact most of them exceed 20% (exception for pudianoski (sp)). I think it is perfectly fine with their bodyfat, just need a longer needle to hit the muscle. If being under 15% BF was a rule that everyone obeyed then we would have some weak powerlifters.
djsf
New member
This thread makes a good point. In recent weeks there have been dozens of newbie posts asking how (or proposing wierd aas cycles) for purposes of burning fat. In almost all instances the answers have been the same. Maybe the answer to that oh-so-common question should be posted in one of the stickys.
Hey, how about a sticky cleanup? Right now there are a lot of stickys, too many maybe. One sticky should summarily lay out and explain all the rules board rules (right now a couple stickys together do that) and another sticky could be created as a running FAQ to answer all the most frequently asked newbie questions.
Hey, how about a sticky cleanup? Right now there are a lot of stickys, too many maybe. One sticky should summarily lay out and explain all the rules board rules (right now a couple stickys together do that) and another sticky could be created as a running FAQ to answer all the most frequently asked newbie questions.
hammercurls
New member
you can start at any body fat if you have some knowledge under your belt imo. a low dose of var would do wonder's for the casual dieter
I dont think it's worth trying to lose weight without juicing.
djsf
New member
The general concensus and culture of this board appears to ne that fat-burning is a relatively advanced use of aas, and is not an appropriate use of aas for a first cycle. aas are complex and there is a lot one needs to know to use them safely / correctly / appropriately.
I think the general concensus is newbies should do a couple of "normal" bread-and-butter cycles with PCT and have that experience before trying tricky, more advanced stuff with aas.
I think the general concensus is newbies should do a couple of "normal" bread-and-butter cycles with PCT and have that experience before trying tricky, more advanced stuff with aas.
M
Mr.X
Guest
hammercurls said:
That's an insanely ludicrous statement, so you're telling me a guy at 30% bodyfat should be starting Steroids!? come on
Making these recommendations is irresponsible and idiotic, as some newbies will take this seriously. Only a fool would start steroids at ANY bodyfat %. Some people will just never learn.
Mr.X said:That's an insanely ludicrous statement, so you're telling me a guy at 30% bodyfat should be starting Steroids!? come on
Making these recommendations is irresponsible and idiotic, as some newbies will take this seriously. Only a fool would start steroids at ANY bodyfat %. Some people will just never learn.
Come on one extreme would be 30% and the other would be 8%. Like it was said above power lifters are big guys and arent lean at all. Besides no one with real gym time under their belt is going to be 30% body fat anyway.
I say no less than 4 years of real gym time consistant and hitting it hard clean.
When I was 18 I lost a lot of weight (325-225) and I did it with cardio, ECA (way to much) and a very restricted diet. After that I learnt how to eat properly and in the next two years lost another % of bf and gained LBM... I went to university and lived in rez first year where I met my lifting buddies and lifted 4-5 days a week... (not much cardio but such is rez) that year i gained a bit of fat but a ton of muscle.... I have also in the last year done 2 cycles and am currently on my third... however nothing can replace those first critical years of lifting where your body is SOOOOO responsive to food and hard work, sure it's a bit slower, but it's natural, and side effect free! Nobody with less than 2 years lifting should be hitting crank... I guess i'm just glad i did things somewhat naturally to see what i was able to do completly on my own with diet and training.
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Mr.X
Guest
ap282 said:
It's not an extereme, I've seen people do that; in fact, many times. It's based on their ignorance. I hope some people read my posts here:
"10% bodyfat, over 26years old and have at least 10 years of training"
This should be a sticky!Mr.X said:
M
Mr.X
Guest
Just to add, steroids are not the solution to weight loss problems nor weight gain problems. Just because you're skinny or fat, it doesn't mean you need to start using steroids. Steroids are not magic!
I don't want anybody reading this to think steroids can solve your weight loss problems! They cannot and should not be used in lieu of a diet and cardio.
People that misuse steroids and misunderstand them, basically using them without knowledge, are the same people that show up in news stories claiming it made them try to commit suicide.
I don't want anybody reading this to think steroids can solve your weight loss problems! They cannot and should not be used in lieu of a diet and cardio.
People that misuse steroids and misunderstand them, basically using them without knowledge, are the same people that show up in news stories claiming it made them try to commit suicide.
I think it might be ok to do a cutting cycle at 15-20% but no more. I did a bulker just under 15% and even though I gained a lot of strength, I felt fat at the end from the bloat. And its hard to see your gains under a cover of flab.
I am finishing my cycle with a cutter of prop and winny. And I feel great. Its nice losing fat and I am still gaining some reps once in a while. I really hated the feeling of losing fat and seeing some of my strength go before.
I am finishing my cycle with a cutter of prop and winny. And I feel great. Its nice losing fat and I am still gaining some reps once in a while. I really hated the feeling of losing fat and seeing some of my strength go before.
hammercurls
New member
steroids are not magic howver they provide magic like effects 
prop's to Mr X i agree with what you said
prop's to Mr X i agree with what you said
People that misuse steroids and misunderstand them, basically using them without knowledge, are the same people that show up in news stories claiming it made them try to commit suicide. BY: MR.X
this is the #1 reason knowledge and good research on aas is of the utmost importance.
on another note: George. don't i get some karma for posting a thread that has Mr.x replying 5 or more times. LOL!
this is the #1 reason knowledge and good research on aas is of the utmost importance.
on another note: George. don't i get some karma for posting a thread that has Mr.x replying 5 or more times. LOL!
hammercurls
New member
laflz
M
Mr.X
Guest
Demonix said:
20% bodyfat? if you're 20% bodyfat and you're using steroids, you really need 1) a kick in the nuts (if you have any) 2) a real objective look at your life to see why you need AS for something you could do with diet and cardio. Do you have self-esteem issues? personal problems? and the like.
by "you" I meant the general public
M
Mr.X
Guest
bigtravis said:
I gave you K so you don't cry
lol.americany13
New member
Guys, I was told that it was ok to start using AAS if your are over 25% bf (ONLY, and ONLY if you are bulking evenmore) but never first time use AAS to cut...cause you will look too skinny...thats if you eat clean and hit the cardio.
So 25% bf newbie---AAS+diet+cardio+clean food=skinny tooth pick
But 25% bf newbie---AAS+GYM+(NO cardio)+Clean food= Good bulker,,repeat for 3 cycles then after muscles develop nicely then do a cutter cycle.
This was advice given to me, so please give me your input.....this is why I post on EliteF..so I can research more.
So 25% bf newbie---AAS+diet+cardio+clean food=skinny tooth pick
But 25% bf newbie---AAS+GYM+(NO cardio)+Clean food= Good bulker,,repeat for 3 cycles then after muscles develop nicely then do a cutter cycle.
This was advice given to me, so please give me your input.....this is why I post on EliteF..so I can research more.
Although it may be a crutch, someone who has AAS experience and for some reason has fallen off the bandwagon and then been runover by the bandwagon could really benefit from something like winstrol/tren to get back to where they were. Yeah flame me all you want, you know it works, and it woudl work for them. Then again, I'm not talking about a 17 year old that's chubby. I'm talking about a 26 year old who may have disappointing natural test levels from a myriad of secondary conditions like sleep apnea (which would also decrease the amount of GH they released)
Situations like that which compound themselves into a downward spiral of lethargy, weight gain, and generally feeling bad leave the door open for really positive experiences using diet, cardio, training and a kick start from AAS use.
So tell me Mr. X... in this situation what would you do? 35 year old male, low test levels, non existent GH levels, somewhat obese, sleep apnea, trying to get himself in shape... would you be opposed to him self medicating with 400mg/week of test cyp or something like that?
To me, that's a real area of gray, and situations similar to that get into even more gray areas with recommending "off label" AAS use.
Situations like that which compound themselves into a downward spiral of lethargy, weight gain, and generally feeling bad leave the door open for really positive experiences using diet, cardio, training and a kick start from AAS use.
So tell me Mr. X... in this situation what would you do? 35 year old male, low test levels, non existent GH levels, somewhat obese, sleep apnea, trying to get himself in shape... would you be opposed to him self medicating with 400mg/week of test cyp or something like that?
To me, that's a real area of gray, and situations similar to that get into even more gray areas with recommending "off label" AAS use.
hammercurls
New member
juicedmohawk said:
excellent post, this is what i was trying to say
this thread was a suggestion for the 99% of newbies that join here, not the 1% that already have serious disfuntions that you speak of to justify your opinion. not saying that you are not intitled to your opinion. i'm stating why i posted this thread. 
although you would be right putting it that way. but i would say that the majority on here would lean towards the suggestion of trying to get more towards being below 15% and i'm being generous with the %.
although you would be right putting it that way. but i would say that the majority on here would lean towards the suggestion of trying to get more towards being below 15% and i'm being generous with the %.
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Mr.X
Guest
juicedmohawk said:
You're confusing steroid use recreationally vs. steroid use for health reasons. Please don't confuse the two, as you're givng people a false sense of reality. A person with testosterone problems, thyroids problems, sleep apnea and the like, needs medical attention not elitefitness advice on how to take tren/winstrol cycle.
juicedmohawk said:
You're talking about HRT and TRT, not the mainstay cases on elitefitness. If you've got a 35 year old male, close to the 40y/o HRT barrier, than HRT (hormone replacement therapy) might be in order. You're trying to diagnose a problem that can usually be fixed by proper diet, weight loss, training, cardio and sleep, which is unwise. In general, most overweight individuals do suffer thyroid problems, insulin sensitivity issues, negative nitrogen balances, low IGF-1 levels and low testosterone levels. The low test. levels can be attibuted to anything from lack of proper diet, to lack of training or physical activity, to sleep problems. Remember, your body is a MACHINE, if you don't do tune-ups, change the oil and give it high quality gas, it will BREAK DOWN. After all, you don't fix a faulty car engine by installing a Super-Charger, just as you don't give steroids to a person who doesn't need them.
I don't suggest ANY member here take anything said on Elitefitness or any other forum at face value. Do your own research, but don't fall into the trap of thinking you NEED steroids, as 90% of the people that attemp AS use usually have NO need for them. They have NOT reached their genetic potential and, therefore, do not need any AS.
There are MANY great guides on natural bodybuilding, you can find them on amazon I'm sure. For most people, at least 10 years of training is needed before genetic limits are reached. For some, the few, it can come sooner.
Do not mistake this as an ANTI-steroid statement, by all means not. (lol, I'm a mod. on a steroid site, aren't I?) I think AS are a GREAT products and have a place in a bodybuilder's arsenal. I just do NOT like to see steroids abused by ignorant people - their ignorance drawn from false and uneducated statments by others.
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Mr.X
Guest
americany13 said:
Whoever gave you that advice has absolutely no AS education or knowledge!
americany13 said:
So 25% bf newbie---AAS+diet+cardio+clean food=BAD
But 25% bf newbie---AAS+GYM+(NO cardio)+Clean food= BAD
But 25% bf newbie -- Diet, Cardio, Clean food, Training routine, sleep and rest = GOOD
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Mr.X
Guest
americany13:
Read BodyOpus by Dan Duchaine
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/bodybuilding-qfac/bodopdanduc.html
Also, Dr. Mauro DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet , you can google it.
Read BodyOpus by Dan Duchaine
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/bodybuilding-qfac/bodopdanduc.html
Also, Dr. Mauro DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet , you can google it.
Mr.X said:
C'mon Mr. X, were talking about patients being autonomous and pro-active in getting themselves back in shape. I'm not telling anyone to go to their local gym, talk to the Russian guy and get some AAS and just start popping pills. I'm an advocate for people becoming informed about (somewhat) responsible AAS use.
This whole thread has been about overweight people not using AAS because they are most likely uninformed and dont ''need'' it due to not reaching where they should be to start juicing. IMO outside of the discipline part of getting in shape and training naturally, I wouldn't think it be a problem for someone to jump start getting back in shape with a tren/winny cycle. Although it's not the mainstay of EF (18 year old punks wanting to get huge seems to be), stating generic rules for juicing doesnt work for everyone. That's really the main point of my long drawn out post.
On that same note, its really fucking annoying to have people put one line quip-like responses like this: "dont fucking juice if you have to ask that question" when they're just as ignorant as the other people but have just accumulated a higher post count.
I'm all about 30 year old men using AAS to get back in shape. The sleep apnea example was just an example. As long as physicians aren't liberally prescribing AAS for people who could benefit from them, I'd like to see 30-35 year old men on this board asking questions and using AAS.
hammercurls
New member
juicedmohawk said:
+1...................................
however im not disagreeing with X either..i see both points
RADAR
Well-known member
I would also like to add that 16-20 yr olds have enough testosterone flowing in their body to make good use of it, its the diet portion that lacking as we all know kids eat mostly junk hence is why they become discouraged and turn to gear,most teens have trouble with their natural hormonal changes ,moods,short tempers, depression,fusion of their growth plates...etc with out complicatimg themselves by adding more hormones, hence is why roids are given a bad rap as several have committed suicide because they couldn't cope with it.
RADAR
RADAR
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Tryn2
New member
Correct me if Im wrong guys because I think this is a decent thread so I would like to ad something.....
True or False ?
Once you have ran a course of AAS or maybe a few courses....After your cycles gaining muscle naturally will be all that more difficult ??? Once you step over it is harder to gain muscle when not on ??? Is there any truth in that ?? I know right after you a cycle your T levels are low or gone but Im talking after you recover. Example...Avg male who ran say 4 to 5 cycles. Then comes off for a year and his body is back to normal even if blood tests were good and t levels were restored, then how is his muscle gain going to be ???
True or False ?
Once you have ran a course of AAS or maybe a few courses....After your cycles gaining muscle naturally will be all that more difficult ??? Once you step over it is harder to gain muscle when not on ??? Is there any truth in that ?? I know right after you a cycle your T levels are low or gone but Im talking after you recover. Example...Avg male who ran say 4 to 5 cycles. Then comes off for a year and his body is back to normal even if blood tests were good and t levels were restored, then how is his muscle gain going to be ???
M
Mr.X
Guest
juicedmohawk said:
Listen, you're confusing reality with fiction and starting to rehash the same things over and over, which is becoming fruitless.
Steroids ARE NOT tools for someone to 'get in shape'. They are NOT tools for fat-loss or any other obvious body condition that can be fixed with simple diet and exercise.
Now, you can believe what you want and say what you want, and you can claim anything you want, that's your right. However, reality is different. 90% of people who come here do NOT need AS, as they have not done anything naturally to even help themselves, how is AS going to help them?
STEROIDS ARE NOT MAGIC, I repeat: STERODIS ARE NOT MAGIC NOR THE SOLUTION TO EVERY PROBLEM A 30 YEAR OLD HAS.
In your baseless claims you use personal bias to make assumptions that a '30 year old' can use steroids to 'get in shape'. Well, if that's true, why not put every fat and bloated 30-40 year old on steroids, just to have them get in shape. Why not replace simple diet and cardio with tren and fina? NO! YOU come on! Don't give me this B.S.
I'm sure you have your subjective views on this but reality will never change. Studies have shown the benefits of steroids, but not for people who do not need them. If your'e out of SHAPE, it does NOT mean you need steroids. In fact, it is a common belief that uneducated, un-needed steroid use usually leads to all the "horror" stories and complaints - including roid rage, suicide and the list goes on.
I'm tired of re-hashing this to you, same thing over and over. You can believe what you want to believe, and abuse steroids all you want. Albeit, this is my last post to you in this thread as it's wasting my time telling you not to put the cart in front of the horse and face reality.
M
Mr.X
Guest
RADAR said:
Radar, I think we can safely say 16-24 year old here
arthur jones said in a journal that i once read that a man ages 16-25 only needed to do 1 full body workout per week to failure because of his natural testosterone levels being so high. which would yield great results. i of course didn't follow this advice, but that's what he said. this was a journal that was never published for public reading. T
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Mr.X
Guest
RADAR said:
LMFAO!
Mr.X said:
Ok.. that statement in bold works... but NO ONE should use AAS in conjunction with a radical fat loss plan? NO ONE above XX percent should EVER use AAS? ummmm... that's crap, and you have said so yourself.. more than once...
What complete LUNATIC posted this diet and AAS plan?
on your own diet play you said:
Lets see... bro, as mods we are supposed to tango and agree publicly on all things blah blabh and all that but....
Look, your blanket statements about NO one.. or NEVER... are utter horsehockey... there are circumstance and individual situations that warrant many seemingly severe and or 'hardcore' measures. Me, for one.
I was miserable and at the edge of suicidal, 312+lbs and 36-38% bf... and guess whose diet i chose as a radical boost to my over all regimen to give myself some much needed self asteem and to get my life MOVING... hmmm... does that lunatic's link above give you a basic hint?
To say that a very radical weight loss regimen, along with a kick in the thyroid, moderate AAS use to maintain LBM and a serious and open minded family physician whom you are open with and is monitoring you moves, not agreeing with many, per se, but doing your blood work etc, is not a viable and VERY desirable solution is assinine.
Lets see... i am no mass monster.. i never did any stupidity like a friggin moutain of test/week or any kind of starvation diet.. er... except yours above, i found that over the long run HRT and MY diet plan did the folowing:
I lost 96+lbs of FAT.. yes, not weight, FAT.
I lost 1.8 lbs of LBM... no, that decimal is correct, less than TWO lbs..
that idiot in my avatar and my profile pic is me.. a week ago thursday... I went from 42"+ waist 'Loose Fit' to 32" 'Straight Fit' pants that i tried on on wednessday...
Now, my thyroid numbers were LOW then, they are LOW now... my liver enzymes are normal, as is damn near everything else.. oh, except my BodyFat%.. which is below normal...
What i am saying is that in most respects your comments are on the money... for the average knucklehead many factors must come into play before anyone decides to take a dangerous leap... experience with ones own body (i am 41 years old, i know how I respond), research (i would repeat that word 100 times, its that important) and above all a frank and direct discussion with your doctor.. look, if this is important enough for you to DO, then its important enough to have the tough talk with someone that actuall can help you now and maybe save your ass later...
All that having been said, Mr. X my brother in arms, you cannot make blanket statements like this on one forum and post diets/AAS/Supplement guidelines like those in the FatFast diet without calling into question what exactly you are trying to push here... ya know?
.
RADAR said:
yes yes.. foundation of years of training. OF COURSE!!
But Radar, the man is talking about informed 30 year olds that are with their SHIT TOGETHER>...
Are you suggesting that big, older, experienced AAS steroid users who really know their shit dont assume an injury prone stance due to their increased weight totals?
ummm.. dude? how is YOUR bicep these days?
Like juicedmohawk said, he is not suggesting that some uninformed wet behind the underoos kid jump into a gram of test a week with no foundation or solid undertanding, and my contention: without a physician to montior yer ass... he is NOT saying that...
His complaint about this thread and those like it is the oft condescending attitude from vets on newbies... we were ALL newbies once... and some vet took the the time to start to share without ludicris blanket statements like 'if you have to ask then go felate a goat'... ya know? Guys like you, Dan D., Ranger, Quad, Huck, Oldin, Ulter, Genetic.. damn.. the list is long.. but all you guys sent me down paths of research and understanding that is how i made my decisions...
Informed adults making decisions about their own AAS use is what this friggin forum is FOR, right?
RADAR said:
Thank bro. really. My life, as all of ours are OR SHOULD BE is a work in progress, both on the gym floor and more importantly by far in the realm of continually spiralling upward and forward in accumulation KNOWLEDGE...
As a very knowledgeable guy, and mod, used to say, 'Its 90% diet, 10% training, and 5% gear: that's right, you have to give 105% to get there!", now I hope nancypants doesnt kick me for messing up his quote, but that is the crux or the whole deal right there...
i just get worked up when folks come out with absolutes like NEVER or ALWAYS or statements calling into question any validity of any statement that suggest the use of AAS in relation to a fat loss plan on its own... when respect guys around here, Like Mr. X, suggest EXACTLY THAT....
AAS have a huge place in controlling LBM durring radical fat loss.. one amazing transformation on these boards is a guy that is jumping for joy that his LBM loss % compared to his Fat Loss is between 80-20 and 85-15... um... NO THANKS...
I for one prefer my own: 96lbs-2lbs.. that kind of ratio is more like the icing on the cake that i crave.... and that would NOT have been possible without some help, some serious dedication and a long term plan..
Ok, fine, are AAS the ANSWER to fat loss? hell no, no one with their head out there behind would say so either, but that they should NOT or NEVER be included in a plan unless you are under 15% bf? Unmittigated fertilizer right there.
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Mr.X
Guest
ChefWide said:Ok.. that statement in bold works... but NO ONE should use AAS in conjunction with a radical fat loss plan? NO ONE above XX percent should EVER use AAS? ummmm... that's crap, and you have said so yourself.. more than once...
What complete LUNATIC posted this diet and AAS plan?
You're misquoting me, very nicely done. The diet is for advanced bodybuilders with a lot of exprience, not for some 30 year old out of shape joe-blow.
ChefWide said:
I think you give yourself too much credit and credibility when it comes to "tango," I read your post, I don't think this is a tango, but more of reading lesson.
ChefWide said:
Did you read what I said? you might have reading problems. I clearly stated:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5553740&postcount=32Mr.X said:
Bro, next time please read my posts fully before commenting.
ChefWide said:
huh? I hope you're not saying that at 40% bodyfat it's appropriate to use steroids. If you used one of my extreme diets, you should have contacted me first for advice, I tend to help people within a few days in relation to my older diets.
ChefWide said:
Sure if you're doing HRT, TRT , doctor monitored for health reasons, that's 100% appropriate, but that is NOT what we are talking about. Please RE-read my posts, I am clearly stating that a huge amount of people, including obese individuals, should NOT be using or thinking of using AS just because they need to "get in shape".
ChefWide said:
That's wonderful to hear, but it still is not a reason to use steroids if you don't need them.
ChefWide said:
I bet you, I could have your tryroid functioning normally (before AS use) if I put you on a regular ZONE with AM and PW cardio, including a controlled carb-up and a full 1/mo. refeed.
ChefWide said:
yes, you're right, check out my other post where I say to members NOT to take anything said on the boards at face value. God knows everyone here is a steroid guru, benches 800lbs., drives a ferrari and slept with pamela anderson.
ChefWide said:
yet again, you didn't consult me before using my diets, those diets are for advanced bodybuilders only. In general, the regular joe shouldn't even consider steroids without the years of training naturally, unless it's HRT.
If you re-read my posts, no blanket statements are made, you just didn't read them.
chef. i know this probably wasn't directed at what i was saying in the thread, but when most of us first started, as newbies that is, we didn't have forums such as this to gain quick knowledge from. we pretty much had to learn the hard way. what i was telling newbies, and i should have added this in my thread, was to set aside the thought of aas for quick weight loss. but in turn, get in the physical condition and attain the required knowledge that one should have to successfully use aas with better results. imo, there is no reason one should come on here and say," hey, what's the best steroid for weight loss. i'm 20%bf and have never used before." when all they have to do is just search and learn before hand. i know that there are many individuals out there that have all the right medical reasons to be on an aas treatment at a high bf %. but most on here are strictly reacreational users. that's what i was aiming at.ChefWide said:
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Mr.X
Guest
ChefWide said:
yes, but you're forgetting one thing: adults need real facts. Even adults have issues, including self-esteem problems, weight problems, even psychological problem, and steroids are not the answer to ANY of those.
Steroids are an AID to intermidiate and advanced bodybuilders to break thru a genetic barrier, they are NOT an aid for day-to-day 'get in shape' activity.
Also, please stop confusing HRT and TRT with rec. steroid use!
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Mr.X
Guest
ChefWide said:
Again, unless for HRT or TRT purposes or other medical conditions, you don't need to be using steroids at 15-40% bodyfat.
That's common sense. Last time I checked, this was mainly a rec. steroid board, not an HRT board; hence, the obvious statements.
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Mr.X
Guest
Also, I believe this thread is turning into me having to quote my own posts and rehash the same information, please read all my posts here before making comments or statements. That goes for everyone.
P.S. ChefWide, I have nothing against your comments, and I think you bring up some good points. I just hope that the newbies on this board read what I said and take that research further to understand the reality of AS use.
P.S. ChefWide, I have nothing against your comments, and I think you bring up some good points. I just hope that the newbies on this board read what I said and take that research further to understand the reality of AS use.
KidnKorner
New member
Throw2Far said:
T-rex or thermorexin? there is a difference.
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Mr.X
Guest
RADAR said:
If FONZ was here, he'd put us to shame, remember bro neither of us is a nuclear physics Ph.D. nor a model nor a soccer star.
Damn I hate my life!
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Mr.X
Guest
KidnKorner said:
lol, you sure you're not talking about Trex from the AF store, look above...about 4 AF store stickies, click one and see for yourself.
RADAR
Well-known member
Mr.X said:If FONZ was here, he'd put us to shame, remember bro neither of us is a nuclear physics Ph.D. nor a model nor a soccer star.
Damn I hate my life!
LMAO! I hear that plus he would put us in awe by posting out outdated pics of that Fab body of his with the 2 yr old toothpaste in the background!
RADAR
Mr.X said:
Of course AAS use is not the answer in and of itself for the problems you list above.. does that mean that anyone with any of those problems might not in fact benefit from a radical change in their body composition AIDED by the use of AAS? I know that is NOT what you mean to say, but the timbre of your comment does in fact suggest that.. i think, but as you know, i have trouble with the whole reading thing...
Actually, you dont remember lil' ol' me, but i did consult you about the FatFast, repeatedly in fact, and you did in fact get back to me on a few occasions that very day, which was very nice... and, actually, with your guidance it worked great at doing exactly what you suggested it would do....
I know a particular supplement company owner on this board that stated in a public thread the other day that upon occasion when he gets above 15%bf he will 'throw in' Tren into his SELF DESIGNED HRTesque AAS schedule to get down to a hard 10%...
Now... above 15%?!?! thats verbotten according to many of the comments on this thread, isnt it? and TREN!?!? not a part of ANY HRT: unless that HRT is for COWS... anyone that applies a low dose of any AAS that is not directly perscribed by a doctor is engaging in 'REC.' steroid use, no matter how smart the guy is.. right?
Now, that guy is Ulter, his post is still out there for everybody to see, and i am not dissing the guy, i am in many cases FOLLOWING THE GUYS ADVICE.. i think its smart, i think he backs up what he says with very solid experience and research and a true understanding of both risk and limits. But is he wrong to use AAS for his personal use under his own design unless he is 'breaking through a genetic barrier'? I know for a fact the he, as well as I, have ZERO interest in adding ANY mass to our current frames... um.. does that mean that anyone in that situation is wrong to be involved in any 'rec' steroid use?
All that good stuff having been said.. it aint HRT, its recreational use unless you hold a doctors script for EVERY AAS that enters your body. period. and its not being confused at all...
I have read your posts.. i agree with many of them... i will retract any statements as to you making blanket statements... but be that as it may, neither did i make any comments about some kind juice bonanza for 'day to day get in shape activity'...
Your overall message is that there is no place for rec AAS use in individuals unless its to break through genetic barriers? regardless of dose, intent, experience etc? i know thats now what you mean.. er.. is it? As you aptly pointed out, my reading comprehension is for the birds... so clear that up for me, would ya?
RADAR said:
OH SHIT!! If Fonz were here i would have slipped into acute catatonia already due to the 400+ pages of cut-n-paste hogswallop and selfagrandizing bullshit peppered with comments of his near godlike superiority to all mere mortals...
What an assnozzle...
some of the best posts ever made on this or any other forum are GD's early posts absolutely kicking the stuffing out of Fonz's tall tales of misguided shit..
I used to reread that stuff just to revel in watching fonz wriggle like a slug in salt cellar.
Mr.X said:
YES! DEFINITELY!... i agree with the letter of what you say.. very much so in most cases...
BUT, if they do their research, if the have proper adivice and monitoring.. it DOES not have to be HRT and you dont have to be cranking your way through a genetic barrier to make AAS use both intelligent and useful IN SOME CASES...
that was my only point.. however i may dilute it, thats the twelfth bar of that blues...
M
Mr.X
Guest
ChefWide said:
I hate to say it, but back to the drawing board we go:
1) Ulter is a vet, at least 10 years of AS use from what I recall (+/-)
2) read below I did the research for you
:http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4984166&postcount=25Ulter said:
MY POST he's talking about in that thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4982406&postcount=7Mr.X said:
read my 2nd post:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4984094&postcount=22
There is usually no need to bring other people into conversations, but since you brought up Ulter I wanted to show you that taking everything at face value without research is not wise - as you already agreed.
Mr.X said:I hate to say it, but back to the drawing board we go:
1) Ulter is a vet, at least 10 years of AS use from what I recall (+/-)
2) read below I did the research for you
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4984166&postcount=25
MY POST he's talking about in that thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4982406&postcount=7
read my 2nd post:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4984094&postcount=22
There is usually no need to bring other people into conversations, but since you brought up Ulter I wanted to show you that taking everything at face value without research is not wise - as you already agreed.
oh, my bad, i wasnt refering to ANY OF THAT... i should have been more clear.. i was refering to this post of his, not a conversation but open advice on the boards:
Oh... and if
YOU reread MY post you will see that my reference to Ulter is ONLY in response to the assertation that no AAS should ever be used above, say 10% and that AAS should never be used as a means to fat loss... uh oh... looks like there might be more than one side to this.. um.. from all of us?!!?HOLY MOTHER OF FAT LOSS, MR. X! is it possible that as a group of informed individuals WE ALL have said contradictory things on the same topic!?!? That in fact WE do use AAS for fat loss!?!? and at BF%s above 10%!!! HOLY SHIAAAT!
AMAZING! MORE THAN ONE OPINION ON THE SAME TOPIC FROM THE SAME GUYS!
Bro, i was a fat fuck, you knew this as i told ya so, you helped me change that with a direct comentary on the use of a plan of yours that included both thryroid meds and AAS used on a COMPLETELY recreational basis....
... dont feel bad.. it worked in the early stages FOR ME.. did i stick with it? nooooo... of course not, YOU said not to... but under appropriate supervision and with appropriate research, i still maintain that rec. AAS use is not out of the realm of possiblity in ref. to fat loss.
.
djsf
New member
RADAR, I agree with you. 16-20 (or 24) year olds have raging testosterone that we in our 40's and 50's can only be envious of. But what they are lacking is not just good diet, but knowing the body. 20 year olds usually just don't have enough experience to know their own body well enough to maximize their workouts. I have worked out for 23 years and I started getting my best results (pre-aas) in my 21st year of working out, when I was 39 (and presumably with declining testosterone levels). Without AAS I had lots of people asking me if I was using. I was making every second in the gym count for a year straight and I got great results.RADAR said:
If those 16-24 year olds would eat right AND work out right, they would have no need at all for AAS.
Mr.X said:
Obviously you fail to make the correlation between age and declining tesosterone levels as well as the physiological consequences...
What personal bias am I using? My professional bias? Is that it? The physiology I'm credentialed to understand? Edit: I work in a clinic that deals with weight loss
I in no way said for all bloated 30-40 year olds to start juicing. Quit twisting my words around like this. Dont address me like I'm a 10 year old. Your attitude is getting old.
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That's how to do it mr. X. Claim that "its common thought'' about uneducated seriod use and suicide, but my opinion is subjective baseless claims? Nice wording.
ChefWide said:
Okay Chefwide, that's the whole point of what I was trying to say. Why couldnt I say it in 3 sentences?
ChefWide said:
The one of those that comes to mind is the thread about light, cameras, and fonz's pictures.
KidnKorner
New member
Mr.X said:
there is Trex
there is Thermorexin
Too many people on this board refer to thermorexin as Trex. They are not the same, there is a difference.
KidnKorner
New member
I am not disagreeing with anyone here about the use of AAS. But I do pose a situation.
The more lean muscle your body has the more calories your body will burn at rest. Is this statement true?
So if some Obese or over weight newb were to be taken under the wing of an AAS guru, and given a AAS cycle, wouldnt he benefit from the cycle, that help to add more lean muscle, therefore burning more calories?
The more lean muscle your body has the more calories your body will burn at rest. Is this statement true?
So if some Obese or over weight newb were to be taken under the wing of an AAS guru, and given a AAS cycle, wouldnt he benefit from the cycle, that help to add more lean muscle, therefore burning more calories?
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
RADAR said:
Such a good reply. The diet in todays young people is so awful and most of us know that nutrition is so important, allowing them to excel and become better athletes, lifters or whatever. Glad to see what you've mentioned here.
-----------------
Mythicwrld
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
The success a person achieved in life after life is over is not measured by the material items, wealth or land they acquire. But in the lives they have touched in a positive way and the people who remember them with a fondness and a smile or a tear that they are no longer.
- my brother
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
KidnKorner said:
I'll never ever think its okay for an obese person, "PERSON" in general - no matter what age to take AAS. First diet and learn nutrition because if there are no medical problems such as thyroid one is being treated for; this is the primary 'problem'. Once the problem is addressed and tackled, then enhancements can be thought about.
To me AAS to an overweight person is much like putting cosmetic dentistry before fixing up the cavities. My two cents.
-----------------
Mythicwrld
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
The success a person achieved in life after life is over is not measured by the material items, wealth or land they acquire. But in the lives they have touched in a positive way and the people who remember them with a fondness and a smile or a tear that they are no longer.
- my brother
M
Mr.X
Guest
KidnKorner said:
I never even heard of the other product. Here on elitefitness Trex and Thermorexin terms are used in lieu of each other. When anyone says use some Trex and some Lrex, those are all AF store products. This has been the case for years, ever since the AF store came out with the products. Since you've been a member starting October 2005, you obviously didn't know that.
For everyone else, when we say Trex here on EF that's short for Thermorexin from the AF store.
M
Mr.X
Guest
LOL, I just read the B.S. claims of the "trex"
"T-REX you will jack your own natural testosterone to all new levels! "
"Best of all this is a safe all natural product that also will help you guys out in the sack! "Big Time!"
"lowest prices in the world "
"added 9 hardcore supplements that synergistically work together to jack your test up and keep your estrogen levels low"
this is priceless!
"T-REX you will jack your own natural testosterone to all new levels! "
"Best of all this is a safe all natural product that also will help you guys out in the sack! "Big Time!"
"lowest prices in the world "
"added 9 hardcore supplements that synergistically work together to jack your test up and keep your estrogen levels low"
this is priceless!
M
Mr.X
Guest
Quadsweep's Sister said:
Well put...
I hope a lot of newbies read this and understand that AS is not the solution to all their problems. It's a not a get in 'shape' fast pill , injection. To have success you need to reach your full genetic potential first before going and shooting yourself with some test at 20 y/o with 25% bodyfat and 2 months of training.
RADAR
Well-known member
Mr.X said:LOL, I just read the B.S. claims of the "trex"
"T-REX you will jack your own natural testosterone to all new levels! "
"Best of all this is a safe all natural product that also will help you guys out in the sack! "Big Time!"
"lowest prices in the world "
"added 9 hardcore supplements that synergistically work together to jack your test up and keep your estrogen levels low"
this is priceless!
This can't be thermorexin NO WAY!
RADAR
M
Mr.X
Guest
RADAR said:
lol, check out that "trex" link the guy posted, it's amazing - look at their claims
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5556248&postcount=76
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/asr/rex.html
I couldn't stop laughing
pintoca said:
gee, that added even more to the thread. I admit, I should have prefaced that with some sort of disclaimer. I believe me and you have had this conversation before, no?
M
Mr.X
Guest
Mr. dB said:
I doubt pro bodybuilders are the best examples of how to "properly" use AS. They lean more towards walking chemical power plants, rec drugs included.
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