overweight newbs. read this.

[bigtravis]

this thread was a suggestion for the 99% of newbies that join here, not the 1% that already have serious disfuntions that you speak of to justify your opinion. not saying that you are not intitled to your opinion. i'm stating why i posted this thread. although you would be right putting it that way. but i would say that the majority on here would lean towards the suggestion of trying to get more towards being below 15% and i'm being generous with the %.

 

[Mr.X]

Although it may be a crutch, someone who has AAS experience and for some reason has fallen off the bandwagon and then been runover by the bandwagon could really benefit from something like winstrol/tren to get back to where they were. Yeah flame me all you want, you know it works, and it woudl work for them. Then again, I'm not talking about a 17 year old that's chubby. I'm talking about a 26 year old who may have disappointing natural test levels from a myriad of secondary conditions like sleep apnea (which would also decrease the amount of GH they released)

Situations like that which compound themselves into a downward spiral of lethargy, weight gain, and generally feeling bad leave the door open for really positive experiences using diet, cardio, training and a kick start from AAS use.

You're confusing steroid use recreationally vs. steroid use for health reasons. Please don't confuse the two, as you're givng people a false sense of reality. A person with testosterone problems, thyroids problems, sleep apnea and the like, needs medical attention not elitefitness advice on how to take tren/winstrol cycle.

So tell me Mr. X... in this situation what would you do? 35 year old male, low test levels, non existent GH levels, somewhat obese, sleep apnea, trying to get himself in shape... would you be opposed to him self medicating with 400mg/week of test cyp or something like that?

To me, that's a real area of gray, and situations similar to that get into even more gray areas with recommending "off label" AAS use.

You're talking about HRT and TRT, not the mainstay cases on elitefitness. If you've got a 35 year old male, close to the 40y/o HRT barrier, than HRT (hormone replacement therapy) might be in order. You're trying to diagnose a problem that can usually be fixed by proper diet, weight loss, training, cardio and sleep, which is unwise. In general, most overweight individuals do suffer thyroid problems, insulin sensitivity issues, negative nitrogen balances, low IGF-1 levels and low testosterone levels. The low test. levels can be attibuted to anything from lack of proper diet, to lack of training or physical activity, to sleep problems. Remember, your body is a MACHINE, if you don't do tune-ups, change the oil and give it high quality gas, it will BREAK DOWN. After all, you don't fix a faulty car engine by installing a Super-Charger, just as you don't give steroids to a person who doesn't need them.

I don't suggest ANY member here take anything said on Elitefitness or any other forum at face value. Do your own research, but don't fall into the trap of thinking you NEED steroids, as 90% of the people that attemp AS use usually have NO need for them. They have NOT reached their genetic potential and, therefore, do not need any AS.

There are MANY great guides on natural bodybuilding, you can find them on amazon I'm sure. For most people, at least 10 years of training is needed before genetic limits are reached. For some, the few, it can come sooner.

Do not mistake this as an ANTI-steroid statement, by all means not. (lol, I'm a mod. on a steroid site, aren't I?) I think AS are a GREAT products and have a place in a bodybuilder's arsenal. I just do NOT like to see steroids abused by ignorant people - their ignorance drawn from false and uneducated statments by others.

 

[Mr.X]

Guys, I was told that it was ok to start using AAS if your are over 25% bf (ONLY, and ONLY if you are bulking evenmore) but never first time use AAS to cut...cause you will look too skinny...thats if you eat clean and hit the cardio..

Whoever gave you that advice has absolutely no AS education or knowledge!

So 25% bf newbie---AAS+diet+cardio+clean food=skinny tooth pick
But 25% bf newbie---AAS+GYM+(NO cardio)+Clean food= Good bulker,,repeat for 3 cycles then after muscles develop nicely then do a cutter cycle.

This was advice given to me, so please give me your input.....this is why I post on EliteF..so I can research more

So 25% bf newbie---AAS+diet+cardio+clean food=BAD
But 25% bf newbie---AAS+GYM+(NO cardio)+Clean food= BAD
But 25% bf newbie -- Diet, Cardio, Clean food, Training routine, sleep and rest = GOOD

 

[Mr.X]

americany13:

Read BodyOpus by Dan Duchaine
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/bodybuilding-qfac/bodopdanduc.html

Also, Dr. Mauro DiPasquale's Anabolic Diet , you can google it.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

You're confusing steroid use recreationally vs. steroid use for health reasons. Please don't confuse the two, as you're givng people a false sense of reality. A person with testosterone problems, thyroids problems, sleep apnea and the like, needs medical attention not elitefitness advice on how to take tren/winstrol cycle.

You're talking about HRT and TRT, not the mainstay cases on elitefitness. If you've got a 35 year old male, close to the 40y/o HRT barrier, than HRT (hormone replacement therapy) might be in order. You're trying to diagnose a problem that can usually be fixed by proper diet, weight loss, training, cardio and sleep, which is unwise. In general, most overweight individuals do suffer thyroid problems, insulin sensitivity issues, negative nitrogen balances, low IGF-1 levels and low testosterone levels.

C'mon Mr. X, were talking about patients being autonomous and pro-active in getting themselves back in shape. I'm not telling anyone to go to their local gym, talk to the Russian guy and get some AAS and just start popping pills. I'm an advocate for people becoming informed about (somewhat) responsible AAS use.

This whole thread has been about overweight people not using AAS because they are most likely uninformed and dont ''need'' it due to not reaching where they should be to start juicing. IMO outside of the discipline part of getting in shape and training naturally, I wouldn't think it be a problem for someone to jump start getting back in shape with a tren/winny cycle. Although it's not the mainstay of EF (18 year old punks wanting to get huge seems to be), stating generic rules for juicing doesnt work for everyone. That's really the main point of my long drawn out post.

On that same note, its really fucking annoying to have people put one line quip-like responses like this: "dont fucking juice if you have to ask that question" when they're just as ignorant as the other people but have just accumulated a higher post count.

I'm all about 30 year old men using AAS to get back in shape. The sleep apnea example was just an example. As long as physicians aren't liberally prescribing AAS for people who could benefit from them, I'd like to see 30-35 year old men on this board asking questions and using AAS.

 

[hammercurls]

C'mon Mr. X, were talking about patients being autonomous and pro-active in getting themselves back in shape. I'm not telling anyone to go to their local gym, talk to the Russian guy and get some AAS and just start popping pills. I'm an advocate for people becoming informed about (somewhat) responsible AAS use.

This whole thread has been about overweight people not using AAS because they are most likely uninformed and dont ''need'' it due to not reaching where they should be to start juicing. IMO outside of the discipline part of getting in shape and training naturally, I wouldn't think it be a problem for someone to jump start getting back in shape with a tren/winny cycle. Although it's not the mainstay of EF (18 year old punks wanting to get huge seems to be), stating generic rules for juicing doesnt work for everyone. That's really the main point of my long drawn out post.

On that same note, its really fucking annoying to have people put one line quip-like responses like this: "dont fucking juice if you have to ask that question" when they're just as ignorant as the other people but have just accumulated a higher post count.

I'm all about 30 year old men using AAS to get back in shape. The sleep apnea example was just an example. As long as physicians aren't liberally prescribing AAS for people who could benefit from them, I'd like to see 30-35 year old men on this board asking questions and using AAS.

+1...................................


however im not disagreeing with X either..i see both points

 

[RADAR]

I would also like to add that 16-20 yr olds have enough testosterone flowing in their body to make good use of it, its the diet portion that lacking as we all know kids eat mostly junk hence is why they become discouraged and turn to gear,most teens have trouble with their natural hormonal changes ,moods,short tempers, depression,fusion of their growth plates...etc with out complicatimg themselves by adding more hormones, hence is why roids are given a bad rap as several have committed suicide because they couldn't cope with it.


RADAR

 

[Tryn2]

Correct me if Im wrong guys because I think this is a decent thread so I would like to ad something.....

True or False ?

Once you have ran a course of AAS or maybe a few courses....After your cycles gaining muscle naturally will be all that more difficult ??? Once you step over it is harder to gain muscle when not on ??? Is there any truth in that ?? I know right after you a cycle your T levels are low or gone but Im talking after you recover. Example...Avg male who ran say 4 to 5 cycles. Then comes off for a year and his body is back to normal even if blood tests were good and t levels were restored, then how is his muscle gain going to be ???

 

[RADAR]

Correct me if Im wrong guys because I think this is a decent thread so I would like to ad something.....

True or False ?

Once you have ran a course of AAS or maybe a few courses....After your cycles gaining muscle naturally will be all that more difficult ??? Once you step over it is harder to gain muscle when not on ??? Is there any truth in that ?? I know right after you a cycle your T levels are low or gone but Im talking after you recover. Example...Avg male who ran say 4 to 5 cycles. Then comes off for a year and his body is back to normal even if blood tests were good and t levels were restored, then how is his muscle gain going to be ???

You can still gain -diet is the key

you won't be lifting the poundages you once were but tear down the muscle and feed it proper nutrition and you will grow.

RADAR

 

[Mr.X]

C'mon Mr. X, were talking about patients being autonomous and pro-active in getting themselves back in shape. I'm not telling anyone to go to their local gym, talk to the Russian guy and get some AAS and just start popping pills. I'm an advocate for people becoming informed about (somewhat) responsible AAS use.

This whole thread has been about overweight people not using AAS because they are most likely uninformed and dont ''need'' it due to not reaching where they should be to start juicing. IMO outside of the discipline part of getting in shape and training naturally, I wouldn't think it be a problem for someone to jump start getting back in shape with a tren/winny cycle. Although it's not the mainstay of EF (18 year old punks wanting to get huge seems to be), stating generic rules for juicing doesnt work for everyone. That's really the main point of my long drawn out post.

On that same note, its really fucking annoying to have people put one line quip-like responses like this: "dont fucking juice if you have to ask that question" when they're just as ignorant as the other people but have just accumulated a higher post count.

I'm all about 30 year old men using AAS to get back in shape. The sleep apnea example was just an example. As long as physicians aren't liberally prescribing AAS for people who could benefit from them, I'd like to see 30-35 year old men on this board asking questions and using AAS.

Listen, you're confusing reality with fiction and starting to rehash the same things over and over, which is becoming fruitless.

Steroids ARE NOT tools for someone to 'get in shape'. They are NOT tools for fat-loss or any other obvious body condition that can be fixed with simple diet and exercise.

Now, you can believe what you want and say what you want, and you can claim anything you want, that's your right. However, reality is different. 90% of people who come here do NOT need AS, as they have not done anything naturally to even help themselves, how is AS going to help them?
STEROIDS ARE NOT MAGIC, I repeat: STERODIS ARE NOT MAGIC NOR THE SOLUTION TO EVERY PROBLEM A 30 YEAR OLD HAS.

In your baseless claims you use personal bias to make assumptions that a '30 year old' can use steroids to 'get in shape'. Well, if that's true, why not put every fat and bloated 30-40 year old on steroids, just to have them get in shape. Why not replace simple diet and cardio with tren and fina? NO! YOU come on! Don't give me this B.S.

I'm sure you have your subjective views on this but reality will never change. Studies have shown the benefits of steroids, but not for people who do not need them. If your'e out of SHAPE, it does NOT mean you need steroids. In fact, it is a common belief that uneducated, un-needed steroid use usually leads to all the "horror" stories and complaints - including roid rage, suicide and the list goes on.

I'm tired of re-hashing this to you, same thing over and over. You can believe what you want to believe, and abuse steroids all you want. Albeit, this is my last post to you in this thread as it's wasting my time telling you not to put the cart in front of the horse and face reality.