New Guy Cycle Questions

[Toptoon1]

dbol 1-4
test e 1-12
thats a little bit easier! haha ya up dbol to 25-30 mgs.
would like to see you loose some fat before starting tho.
how long have you been working out?? JUST SAW ONLY 1 Year!! Stay off for 5 years minumim before even thinking about AS! Most guys on here wait almost 10 years before starting a cycle!

dbol 1-4, test e 1-12. Yes that would have been a lot easier, LOL. Ill remember that for next time. Im curious as to the suggestion of losing "FAT" before starting. The only reasons I could come up with besides fat = bad is because maybe its due to the idea that I will be gaining a lot of weight in the form of water, fat, and hopefully muscle on the cycle. So my thinking as to your reasoning is that if I drop the Bf to say 10% and I gain another, I don’t know 15% on the cycle then my BF would be at 25% rather then 35%. This is all I could think of as to your reasoning. Was that your idea behind your dropping the fat suggestion or was it just because 20% is not all that great. Oh and I got to comment on the stay off the gear for 5 year suggestion. LOL, thanks for the advice but we both know that’s not gonna happen. I think I would rather do this same cycle once every year for 5 years then to wait 5 years to do it once. I totally realize the 5 year abstinence is sound advice seeing as I should wait to hit my natural potentiall then and only then use gear to help improve that, but my ideology is not based on getting to my natural peak in 5 years. Its just to make some nice advances and keep them there. Again thanks for your response and suggestions, they are appreciated.

 

[joe d]

Thanks for the link and the info. That stuff sounds amazing. Looks like it has everything you need for pct in it. As well it should for the msrp. Speaking of the msrp, I have to ask, have you ever patronized the establishment?

i buy from both of them. they are good

 

[joe d]

i keep my bf at 20% on and off. i will not cut until pre contest. i dont think it is a problem.

 

[EZ_E]

Toptoon1, welcome to EF....it looks like you've done your homework...

I like the switching up of the workout routine as you posted...

Good looking cycle, you've gotten some good words of wisdom here, good luck with it when you take the plunge

 

[sweed]

wow people don't like real hard work these days. I guess the easy way out is better. to each his own. You shouldn't gain any fat on cycle , maybe a percent or 2 at most if you know how to diet. 15% fat to gain on cycle is rediculous. I am 20 as you can see and need to drop obviously before cycle naturally, because I know how to gain lean muscle and loose fat at the same time. It's called experience.

 

[joe d]

wow people don't like real hard work these days. I guess the easy way out is better. to each his own. You shouldn't gain any fat on cycle , maybe a percent or 2 at most if you know how to diet. 15% fat to gain on cycle is rediculous. I am 20 as you can see and need to drop obviously before cycle naturally, because I know how to gain lean muscle and loose fat at the same time. It's called experience.

thats not really it. bulking is how you build bigger muscles faster. cutting is how you shed fat fastest doing both at the same time is getting some muscle gain (but not as much as you could) while staying thin. a lot of people do this because they want to look good all the time. others dont because they want to put on more size before they do that or because they compete and only need to look good for the show. if you are part or all endo you need to let your body carry that fat if you really want to grow. even straigt meso's would be good in the mid to upper teens. i tried that stay lean bulk stuff natty for years i froze at 169lbs at 5'5'' 11%bf was the last i logged before i forgot about looking good and started thinking about growing muscle only. i then jumped to 220 18% bf still natty before i got stuck again. now 3 cycles in im somewhere over 248 at 21%. if i stayed at my 11% id be lucky to be at 200lbs right now. how do i know this? It's called experience.

 

[micksnowdog]

i've just done a very similar cycle under the tutorage of need2.
500mg test e week 1-10
30mg dbol week 1-5.

i would go with joe d's advice, it is almost exactly what i would have said. with the hcg there's a lot of ways to do it, the way i was recommended was pretty simple one hit per week 500iu 6-10 that makes 5 hits tho think abuot it, the shit is only good in the fridge for 30days and only if you use bac water so get a 1500 and a 1000 iu vial, i started doing a lean bulk and then threw it all in and went all out and just ate every lean bit of protein i could shovel in. if heart attacks are going to be an issue i would forget it or at least consult a very good doc first, dbol sent my blood pressure through the roof, seriously. dbol is great you get strong and horny and you feel like you can lift anything anywhere. but everyone seems to be affected differently

 

[RADAR]

wow people don't like real hard work these days. I guess the easy way out is better. to each his own. You shouldn't gain any fat on cycle , maybe a percent or 2 at most if you know how to diet. 15% fat to gain on cycle is rediculous. I am 20 as you can see and need to drop obviously before cycle naturally, because I know how to gain lean muscle and loose fat at the same time. It's called experience.

Well I go against the grain here , i do the same thing as sweed, and the results are remarkable!



But! to each ,his own.

RADAR

 

[Toptoon1]

wow people don't like real hard work these days. I guess the easy way out is better. to each his own. You shouldn't gain any fat on cycle , maybe a percent or 2 at most if you know how to diet. 15% fat to gain on cycle is rediculous. I am 20 as you can see and need to drop obviously before cycle naturally, because I know how to gain lean muscle and loose fat at the same time. It's called experience.

I don’t believe this to be an issue of hard work. My personal philosophy on the matter is that of two roads. Suppose you have two roads that both lead to the same destination. One road winds and is made up of very rough terrain. The second road on the other hand leads straight to the destination and is paved. Now why would you want to take the longer road with the more rough terrain? I don’t know? You may like to hike, me personally, I dont like to hike. But I agree with what you said, to each his own. But at the same time if we are talking about the dislike of hard work being a character flaw, then why take steroids in the first place? Surely you can agree that with dedication, perseverance, knowledge, and enough time, everyone who applies themselves to the philosophy of weights can expect to reach there natural potential at some point in time. There are a couple different schools of thought concerning steroid gains. One particular theory that I happen to agree with states that a person cannot keep gains beyond what he is naturally able to sustain. For example, you peak at some point. everyone does. now to go beyond that peak you use steroids, the idea is that you have to stay on those steroids to keep the gains beyond what you are naturally able to achieve. So steroids can take you paste your peak but if you stop use you will ultimately drop back down to what you are naturally able to sustain. From what I understand the average person whose diet and training regime is inline can gain on average about 4lbs of lean muscle per every 100lbs of body weight yearly. Now on the other hand the average person on a cycle can expect to gain 8lbs of lean muscle per 100lbs body weight in a 12 week period. I guess im trying to justifiy or explain my reasons for seeking information on a proper cycle in response to your "wow people don't like real hard work these days. I guess the easy way out is better" comment, and in reality no justification is needed. I want to do what I want to do. As far as your answer to my question. Im lost. The 15% I mentioned earlier was obviously a hypothetical number used to exemplify the theoretical reasoning to your "Id like to see you lose weight" comment, who’s meaning has still not been clarified. And it wasn’t fat I was referring to specifically. It was fat, water, and muscle. So yeah, ( "I am 20 as you can see and need to drop obviously before cycle naturally") No, actually I cant see. I am not equipped with a visual fat caliper, and no its not obvious to me why you would need to drop weight before a cycle. Also, that’s great that you can gain lean muscle and loose fat at the same time, and thank you for letting me know that’s called experience. You cleared so much up for me with that post. You truly are a brilliant man. Thank you.

 

[needtogetaas]

I don’t believe this to be an issue of hard work. My personal philosophy on the matter is that of two roads. Suppose you have two roads that both lead to the same destination. One road winds and is made up of very rough terrain. The second road on the other hand leads straight to the destination and is paved. Now why would you want to take the longer road with the more rough terrain? I don’t know? You may like to hike, me personally, I dont like to hike. But I agree with what you said, to each his own. But at the same time if we are talking about the dislike of hard work being a character flaw, then why take steroids in the first place? Surely you can agree that with dedication, perseverance, knowledge, and enough time, everyone who applies themselves to the philosophy of weights can expect to reach there natural potential at some point in time. There are a couple different schools of thought concerning steroid gains. One particular theory that I happen to agree with states that a person cannot keep gains beyond what he is naturally able to sustain. For example, you peak at some point. everyone does. now to go beyond that peak you use steroids, the idea is that you have to stay on those steroids to keep the gains beyond what you are naturally able to achieve. So steroids can take you paste your peak but if you stop use you will ultimately drop back down to what you are naturally able to sustain. From what I understand the average person whose diet and training regime is inline can gain on average about 4lbs of lean muscle per every 100lbs of body weight yearly. Now on the other hand the average person on a cycle can expect to gain 8lbs of lean muscle per 100lbs body weight in a 12 week period. I guess im trying to justifiy or explain my reasons for seeking information on a proper cycle in response to your "wow people don't like real hard work these days. I guess the easy way out is better" comment, and in reality no justification is needed. I want to do what I want to do. As far as your answer to my question. Im lost. The 15% I mentioned earlier was obviously a hypothetical number used to exemplify the theoretical reasoning to your "Id like to see you lose weight" comment, who’s meaning has still not been clarified. And it wasn’t fat I was referring to specifically. It was fat, water, and muscle. So yeah, ( "I am 20 as you can see and need to drop obviously before cycle naturally") No, actually I cant see. I am not equipped with a visual fat caliper, and no its not obvious to me why you would need to drop weight before a cycle. Also, that’s great that you can gain lean muscle and loose fat at the same time, and thank you for letting me know that’s called experience. You cleared so much up for me with that post. You truly are a brilliant man. Thank you.

1. Sweed is talking to you like a grown up and you are talking back to him like a child. This right here shows me and everyone else you are to immature for steroids


2. Your health. A cycle of steroids can cause a lot of health risks. Cholesteral,bp,fatty liver, and more. These sides are magnified when you are over weight and using them.

3. You are using steroids to obtain a very easily obtainable goal that you could reach natural.
Forgoing the dedication,hard work, and training/diet knowledge You should be learning before you jump into steroids.

Sure you will obtain your goal. You will gain your muscle, maybe use another cycle to lose some fat.

Because you lack what it takes to obtain such easy goals naturally in the end you will become dependent on steroids for the rest of your life.

You will keep loosing your gains gaining the weight and going threw the same cycle over and over and it will get harder and harder each time. Maybe you will just say fuck it and stay on for life.


I mean why even come off steroids?? really though with your logic why even come off steroids bro? Just get on them now and just stay on them for life? right? Tell how your logic is any different then just saying fuck it and staying on for life. God damn think off the gains you can get and keep from that.


I don’t believe this to be an issue of hard work. My personal philosophy on the matter is that of two roads. Suppose you have two roads that both lead to the same destination. One road winds and is made up of very rough terrain. The second road on the other hand leads straight to the destination and is paved. Now why would you want to take the longer road with the more rough terrain?

Yup You are right, lets all just jump on steroids and stay on them for life. Lets all just get on 5g cycles to well we are at it. Why keep fucking around. With your logic if we can get from point a to point b with 5000mgs much faster then well why the hell not right? WHo cares about sides, who cares about learning about what diet and training works for you. Who cares about hard work and dedication.



If you can't achieve such a easy obtainable natural goal naturally. How do you expect to hold onto it? Because it takes just as much hard work and dedication to keep as is should to gain it. You think once you get there you are just going to stay there with out having to work to keep it?