I have been training natural also for many years .......and friend to be honest with you ......you look like a bag of smashed assholes..................don't even consider taking any gear until you have the basic concepts of bodybuilding......diet, training.......and for god sakes get some fucking knowledge............you got a pair of balls the size of watermelons......or are just plain clueless......to come on here talking that crazy shit that you do........you friends quads are a joke...and if that is the best you even seen then i have to question where have you been?........Its guys like you who turn bodybuilding shows into comedy show.........do us all a favor and stay the fuck off stage.........and last but not least you think juice is going to turn you into something worth looking at..................you can paint a trash can gold.....but its still a trashcan...........lol