Keepability of strength gains from various drugs

[aquatic_glories]

It is a fact that AAS use results in very quick strength gains especially when everything is order.

I am sure there are lots of people who wants to know how much strength they will gain and keep from AAS??

Everyone talks about keeping muscles but it is not the same with keeping strength. Strength gains might occur via lots of different ways.
For example, trenbolone increases neural efficiency and it does this incredibly well. While strength gains from muscular gains sounds like keepable, the arguement becomes stranger at this point. Are neural gains keepable too?? What about the others??

For example, there are lots of people who complains losing great amount of strength after nandrolones.

And of course everybody would like to know other people's experinces.

So, don't forget that diet, pct and everything that is needed is assumed to be done correctly.

And strength losses from water loss are't counted. So it would be much better if people who controlled bloating during the cycle post so we can get good idea about the drugs work.

Please also remember that you might be over your genetic limits and that might be the reason for not keeping strength. Feel free to post any issues that are like this so we can judge better.

Let's make this the official thread for this topic and avoid hundreds of questions in the near future
thanks

 

[conundrum]

Does this help you out. Remember everyone reacts differently to different compounds. So what works well for someone may not work at all for another.

http://www.anabolic247.com/?action=cnt-menu-display&id=334

http://www.steroid.com/effect.php

http://www.zupplements.com/steroids/steroid_chart.htm

http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Steroid Effectiveness Chart.html

http://www.thepumpingstation.com/anabolicsteroids.html

 

[aquatic_glories]

thanks for editing the post conondrum.

this thread wasn't created for what you tought
thanks


sure everyone reacts differently. That 's why it is asked to all forum members to get general idea.

 

[needtogetaas]

Primo is prob the best. After that it don't matter. Its all about diet training and pct.

 

[aquatic_glories]

Primo is prob the best. After that it don't matter. Its all about diet training and pct.

my biggest query is the other mechanisms involved in strenght gain such as neural effiency.

for example, with trenbolone, person will definitely achieve greater motor unit activation and will be able to use more from his motor pool.

muscles can be kept with correct diet and pct, but what about other things such as neural improvements???

i believe that is the reason why people cannot keep super-trenbolone-strength gains unlike other drugs

 

[black panther]

doesnt halo increase neural efficiency too?

 

[Powerbuilder333]

IMO once you've exceeded your natural genetic potential you want keep any of it off cycle.

 

[sshadoww]

Primo is prob the best. After that it don't matter. Its all about diet training and pct.

Yep- depends how you are training. Training for a sculpted body and training for increased strength are not necessarily the same.

 

[ireekofawesomeness]

interesting thread, bump

 

[aquatic_glories]

yep, it surely is interesting.

shadoww, ,it is one of the reasons why the question i asked.

i have also stated the gentic limits in my first post. so i narrowed the question. let me repeat again

genetic limits not reached
proper diet and pct done
water weight doesnt count (already gonna lose that strength that's why i am asking especially to people who used AI during cycle)

 

[nzrodney]

Personally I think winny (inj) 100mg EOD will increase strength by somewhere around 25% over a 4-6 week addition to a typical test based cycle. I find that a good % of that is kept, but then my "cycle" is a pretty ongoing one. I just like to drop it in for about 5-6 weeks every few months. On my last recent run on winny my leg press went from 9-13 plates a side for 12 reps.

 

[smtimelevi]

I agree I've had good strength experiences with winny.

But I have to say keepable gains are about recovrey. Thats why some will say primo or var. Its not easy to keep strength gains when your balls arent producing test and you take juice out of the equasion your fu*ked. So the harsh roids may be the best on a cycle but the worst after.

 

[sugashane]

Without a solid PCT any gear will be wasted.

 

[eddymerckx]

my biggest query is the other mechanisms involved in strenght gain such as neural effiency.

for example, with trenbolone, person will definitely achieve greater motor unit activation and will be able to use more from his motor pool.

muscles can be kept with correct diet and pct, but what about other things such as neural improvements???

i believe that is the reason why people cannot keep super-trenbolone-strength gains unlike other drugs

you know, there are few topics brought up on this board that i have not at least tried/heard/read something about---this topic, however, make me feel about as smart as a fence post.

okay for those that feel as clueless as me--good article here..

http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2005/pdf/0487.pdf

and here

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1724966&blobtype=pdf

amd a real basic one here
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0861.htm

and really simple concept:

Strength is also determined by neural effciency. If you spend an
hour a day shooting baskets, you'll presumably get better and better,
and this is to a large degree because of an increase in neural
efficiency. The same thing happens when you lift weights your
muscles get used to making that particular movement, and they
become more effcient in lifting a weight. Part of this is accomplished
by recruiting more muscle fibers to handle the imposed workload.
Increasing resistance, i.e., slapping more iron on the bar, will prompt
your body to recruit more and more fibers, and generally, this
"recruit" is again a subtype of the aforementioned Type II fibers.
Again, it's these fibers that are most susceptible to growth.

and

There are substances called neural growth factors and androgenic drugs stimulate these substances. When this occurs the production of these substances increases and they sensitize the nerves ability to tell the muscle to contract. Biomechanists and physiologists call this, "increased neuromuscular efficiency". Basically, when using androgenic drugs, your nerves become better (are stimulated by the neural growth factors) to have a more accurate and potent ability to contract the muscle fibers that they innervate. You are practically instantaneously stronger!

learn something new everyday

 

[nzrodney]

you know, there are few topics brought up on this board that i have not at least tried/heard/read something about---this topic, however, make me feel about as smart as a fence post.

Hey my friend How ya doing? Have to agree on this one with you. I guess we better just stick to the Tax & Cooking LOL

 

[aquatic_glories]

wow, finally a trenbolone

who chosed that???

 

[Latamier]

Primo, Primo, Primo!!! Man I love Primo. Can you tell? Not only do I keep the muscle size and strength associated with it, but I get virtually NO side effects from it either.

 

[aquatic_glories]

Primo, Primo, Primo!!! Man I love Primo. Can you tell? Not only do I keep the muscle size and strength associated with it, but I get virtually NO side effects from it either.

Great to hear that. How would you compare your primo experiences with same dose test experiences?? plus what experiences do you have with these about stacking with others??

thanks

 

[Latamier]

It's kind of hard to do that since primo only comes with 100mg/ml. That would be a huge ammount of oil you would have to inject. I will say that test definately works faster, so if it is instant results you want, test is the way to go. On that note though, a lot of your gains from test are from water retention since it aromatizes into estrogen. That is why you loose a lot of your gains when you come off. You literally piss them away. With primo it does not convert to estrogen so you dont get the so called false results that you get from test. I can honestly say that you will keep at least 80% if not more of the strength and size you gain from primo.

 

[aquatic_glories]

It's kind of hard to do that since primo only comes with 100mg/ml. That would be a huge ammount of oil you would have to inject. I will say that test definately works faster, so if it is instant results you want, test is the way to go. On that note though, a lot of your gains from test are from water retention since it aromatizes into estrogen. That is why you loose a lot of your gains when you come off. You literally piss them away. With primo it does not convert to estrogen so you dont get the so called false results that you get from test. I can honestly say that you will keep at least 80% if not more of the strength and size you gain from primo.

Wow, i never thought it was that marvellous.
Why do you have to tell this to me 4 hours before i will get my AAS ready for next cycle which has test in it

 

[perryscoon]

This poll is bs because 90% of the people who voted have never tried anything but test, so naturally thats what they picked.

 

[geoopa]

You can keep very good strength gains post cycle as long as you chose and use wisley, just don't abuse!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTOKWZKSer0

Happy lifting

 

[aquatic_glories]

This poll is bs because 90% of the people who voted have never tried anything but test, so naturally thats what they picked.

yes that's the biggest reason. I agree

 

[layinback]

Yep- depends how you are training. Training for a sculpted body and training for increased strength are not necessarily the same.

agreed. when you lift x lb's for y rep (s) you establish neural pathways.
these connections create an indelible impression in the brain and i think
this activity is erroneously referred to as *muscle memory*

 

[aquatic_glories]

layinback,

so are you saying muscle memory is actually a neural thing??? I have also read few things that supports this. ?

Thanks

 

[perryscoon]

I think that the best way to keep your size after a cycle is to take creatine and to keep your protein high.

 

[layinback]

layinback,

so are you saying muscle memory is actually a neural thing??? I have also read few things that supports this. ?

Thanks

it is 100% brain stuff. ( it's a given, you gotta have the muscle, but it's
the brain that remembers the weight.)

 

[layinback]

I think that the best way to keep your size after a cycle is to take creatine and to keep your protein high.

yep, and add some glutamine.

 

[Tatyana]

it is 100% brain stuff. ( it's a given, you gotta have the muscle, but it's
the brain that remembers the weight.)

I can't say anything about the gear, but I can attest to the neural adaptation to lifting heavier.

There is also just this mind set you get into that 'I am going to lift this @@%%$^$^'

I think one think some of you lads may want to look into about keeping gains is that while you are on, you can overtrain as recovery is so much better.

Once you are off, I would adapt the training for more rest periods, and that is just not muscle recovery, but CNS (central nervous sytem) recovery.

 

[OMEGA]

Tatyan for ambassador!

 

[layinback]

Tatyan for ambassador!

i second that!!! she knows more about our sport then 99% of the muscle
heads here. ( present company included. )

 

[OMEGA]

shes awsome but does not like me

 

[Tatyana]

shes awsome but does not like me

You are so silly

 

[rediculus]

well if a burst of adrenalin can get a 120lb woman to lift X stupidly heavy object.

Then the next assumption is yes it's all in your head. SO is the question..what steroids make us most aggressive and give us the biggest head change? And are those the steroids that will offer the "largest strength increase" In which case steroids are relatively "head game" chemical right?

 

[aquatic_glories]

Good thinking..
Waiting for a good discussion

 

[rediculus]

PS which COULD be another attribute to the increase chance of injury! Other than the assistance in protein uptake or something smart and scientific like that.

 

[Unit 2005]

Id say primo or equipoise.

 

[rediculus]

not many mentioning masteron..kind of surprising nobody has mentioned that one.

 

[C.K.]

I think anything dry like winny or tren you get strength gains and lose alot of your water so when you come off you lose the strength but gain the water back

 

[NXG+]

I'm a PL'er so i track my strength gains very very closely.

I finished a Test Prop / Var cycle almost exactly 3 weeks ago.

I increased my total (sq/bench/DL) by exactly 110lbs over the course of the cycle.

Ive kept around 70% of those strength gains at this moment in time, a net increase of 75lbs on my total due mainly to the cycle.

As long as i dont lose any more in this last week of pct i will be pretty happy with that. I would say most of the strength is down to the Var as when i ran test p only i got a lot less gains strength wise.

 

[sbamb111]

bump nice thread

 

[pavlenko]

there are also guys that dont cycle and squat 405 for reps... and also lets not forget that strength is not all the same

 

[moya]

ok, im hearing you keep 80% of size and strength off of primo... but isnt that just 80% of not much...
when came off my first test p tren a cycle of 12 weeks, i started a "bulking" diet and gained a fairly good amount of muscle... maintained at least 95%+ strength gains... and gained an unsubstantial ammount of bodyfat...
like the OP asked, i was not at my genetic potential obviously if i were able to gain muscle...
however my PCT was very minimal (not reccomended) and i believe what helped keep my strength was the fact that i ate A LOT, got good rest and worked really damn hard in the gym...
not so sure this would work for everyone, but for me, tren srength results are very keepable...

 

[ChrisUlrich]

there are also guys that dont cycle and squat 405 for reps... and also lets not forget that strength is not all the same

I've done 405lbs for 2! hahahaha