Is it possible to work out of a depression without meds?

[InquisitivePsyche]

Yup. But even with diseases like schizophrenia lifestyle plays a major role in recovery. People who are socially integrated have a 50-80% recovery rate, compared to shutins who only have a 20% recovery rate. And stress reduction or CBT can each cut relapse rates by 50%.

But its a mix of all 4 factors if you want to succeed. medicine, alternative therapies, social support and a proactive attitude.

Totally agree. That is exactly true. While it has a biological onset - socioeconomic/environmental influences definitely play a major role. Research has shown that there are more diagnoses of Schizophrenia in lower SES communities than of higher SES. Makes sense. Some are prone to it genetically, but it also depends on the triggers that will bring it out.

This is the disorder I find most fascinating and most likely, what I will specialize in, in the future. Have you read about the dopamine theory? What scientisits *think* may be part of the cause of schizophrenia?

 

[Lao Tzu]

Totally agree. That is exactly true. While it has a biological onset - socioeconomic/environmental influences definitely play a major role. Research has shown that there are more diagnoses of Schizophrenia in lower SES communities than of higher SES. Makes sense. Some are prone to it genetically, but it also depends on the triggers that will bring it out.

This is the disorder I find most fascinating and most likely, what I will specialize in, in the future. Have you read about the dopamine theory? What scientisits *think* may be part of the cause of schizophrenia?

Well I'm having a relapse right now (after 6 years of remission, symptoms started in december 2006) and I have read alot about the disease lately. The things that can predispose you are endless.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/hypo.php

Have you read about the adrenochrome theory, calcium channel theroy or the NMDA receptor theory? These play a role too. So does homocysteine, methionine, milk and gluten allergies (for some people), month you are born, fatty acid makeup, and a bunch of other things.

What bugs me is that there is a wealth of info on treating schizophrenia out there in the scientific literature, but most psychiatrists have not read any of it. Calcium channel blockers, benzos, various nutritional supplements are all shown to help but nobody knows about them. With cancer you get the latest cutting edge treatment, with schizophrenia unless you are willing tow ork as your own researcher you get info from 1977. For example, many psychiatrists know almost nothing about this kind of research.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=New+Treatment+Strategies+for+Schizophrenia&btnG=Google+Search

second article 'New Treatment Strategies for Schizophrenia', I can't copy/paste the URL directly.

 

[InquisitivePsyche]

Well I'm having a relapse right now (after 6 years of remission, symptoms started in december 2006) and I have read alot about the disease lately. The things that can predispose you are endless.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/hypo.php

Have you read about the adrenochrome theory, calcium channel theroy or the NMDA receptor theory? These play a role too. So does homocysteine, methionine, milk and gluten allergies (for some people), month you are born, fatty acid makeup, and a bunch of other things.

What bugs me is that there is a wealth of info on treating schizophrenia out there in the scientific literature, but most psychiatrists have not read any of it. Calcium channel blockers, benzos, various nutritional supplements are all shown to help but nobody knows about them. With cancer you get the latest cutting edge treatment, with schizophrenia unless you are willing tow ork as your own researcher you get info from 1977. For example, many psychiatrists know almost nothing about this kind of research.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=New+Treatment+Strategies+for+Schizophrenia&btnG=Google+Search

second article 'New Treatment Strategies for Schizophrenia', I can't copy/paste the URL directly.

I hear you. This is why I want to focus on this when I start training to become a clinical psychologist. There are a good amount of psychiatrists/psychologists who know about it but I agree, not nearly enough. It's a difficult illness to understand. I'll definitely read up on those other theories. Like I said, I have not had in depth training yet but will start in the fall and I want to declare "abnormalities," as my concentration. I volunteer at a Mental Health Facility here where a majority of people have schizophrenia, personality disorders, etc and the stories they tell me are amazing. From what they have told me medication combined with therapy is the best treatment. Could be changing... I'm sure nutrition has a lot to do with it as well..

If you don't mind my asking (you don't have to answer). What diagnosis do you have (classification)? Paranoid, Catatonic, Disorganized). I believe the most common is paranoid (am I correct? I may be wrong...)

 

[Lao Tzu]

I hear you. This is why I want to focus on this when I start training to become a clinical psychologist. There are a good amount of psychiatrists/psychologists who know about it but I agree, not nearly enough. It's a difficult illness to understand. I'll definitely read up on those other theories. Like I said, I have not had in depth training yet but will start in the fall and I want to declare "abnormalities," as my concentration. I volunteer at a Mental Health Facility here where a majority of people have schizophrenia, personality disorders, etc and the stories they tell me are amazing. From what they have told me medication combined with therapy is the best treatment. Could be changing... I'm sure nutrition has a lot to do with it as well..

If you don't mind my asking (you don't have to answer). What diagnosis do you have (classification)? Paranoid, Catatonic, Disorganized). I believe the most common is paranoid (am I correct? I may be wrong...)

I had undifferentiated the first time. I had negative symptoms, delusions of grandeur, religion and reference, but no paranoid delusions or visual/auditory hallucinations. So I don't fit the paranoid subtype well.

This time around I have paranoia & visual/auditory hallucinations, but no delusions aside from paranoia. I haven't been diagnosed this time around (psychiatrist called it 'psychosis of unknown origin'), and I'm not sure what this 2nd bout is. It may be drug induced psychosis, not schizophrenia, as it started when I took vinpocetine, creatine & boron. For some reason that combo (that I took to study for a test) 5 weeks ago fucked my brain up. I am going to visit a neurologist when I get back to school (I am on spring break right now) as I don't think my psychiatrist, even though he is a good guy, knows nearly enough about neurobiology to help me. I'm worried as hell, the abilify doesn't work really. I need another drug or some other neurological itnervention. I worry this is degenerative and I"ll need hospitalization.

nutrition has a huge role. A diet high in saturated fat, milk, eggs & sugar is bad, a diet high in fish & legumes with a low glycemic load is good. Regular exercise is also good as it increases BDNF levels.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002546.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4610070.stm

 

[InquisitivePsyche]

I had undifferentiated the first time. I had negative symptoms, delusions of grandeur, religion and reference, but no paranoid delusions or visual/auditory hallucinations. So I don't fit the paranoid subtype well.

This time around I have paranoia & visual/auditory hallucinations, but no delusions aside from paranoia. I haven't been diagnosed this time around (psychiatrist called it 'psychosis of unknown origin'), and I'm not sure what this 2nd bout is. It may be drug induced psychosis, not schizophrenia, as it started when I took vinpocetine, creatine & boron. For some reason that combo (that I took to study for a test) 5 weeks ago fucked my brain up. I am going to visit a neurologist when I get back to school (I am on spring break right now) as I don't think my psychiatrist, even though he is a good guy, knows nearly enough about neurobiology to help me. I'm worried as hell, the abilify doesn't work really. I need another drug or some other neurological itnervention. I worry this is degenerative and I"ll need hospitalization.

nutrition has a huge role. A diet high in saturated fat, milk, eggs & sugar is bad, a diet high in fish & legumes with a low glycemic load is good. Regular exercise is also good as it increases BDNF levels.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002546.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4610070.stm

I can promise you that there are people out there who know a lot about the illness but you just have to dig to find them. I will NOT be one of those psychologists who only brushes the surface of different illnesses. I want to know everything about them (will take a long time and lots of experience but then I can benefit the general population at stake, you know?). Where are you located out of curiousity. I am in Chicago and I know a LOT of GREAT Psychologists who usually have connections elsewhere..

Just saw this on the news and wondering if you heard of this drug called "Invega?" Here's the link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16300182/

I give a lot of credit to you - I can't imagine how difficult it must be. I've listened to stories and while they fascinate me, I remember they are the lives of people who have suffered immensly because of the disorder. The good thing is you seem to be extremely knowledgable about this.. I've worked with people who are so screwed up (sorry to use that term) by the medications and what not, that they are not all there...

 

[InquisitivePsyche]

Oh one more thing: I have access to a HUGE professional database (specifically for psychology) where I can research near ANYTHING and they will have it. If you want me to do so, let me know because I can find articles and see if I can send you the link. If not I can copy/paste in word and e-mail it to you. The articles range from research studies to just professional articles...

This is my main source when I write research papers.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Just saw this on the news and wondering if you heard of this drug called "Invega?" Here's the link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16300182/

I appreciate your concern and the effort, but Invega is a joke drug more or less, in fact my psychiatrist & I were joking about it a few weeks ago. Basically, there is a drug called risperdone that is about to go off patent, so they took a metabolite of ripserdone and called it invega to keep it on patent so they can charge 5x as much as generics. However my psychiatrist & I talked about switching to risperdone if abilify doesn't work (which it doesn't, I don't think). So I may go on risperdal anyway.

The new treatment option seems to be NMDA agonists. The amino acid glycine has shown a 30% reduction in symptoms (glycine is an NMDA agonist) but it doesn't cross teh BBB well so people need 30-60g a day. There is hope of finding some other NMDA agonist to use in schizophrenics.

There is work on calcium channel drugs too, and various others.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/newmeds2004.html

But most are still just more dopamine drugs, which sucks as we already have about 15 of them. We need new avenues of treatment, not more dopamine drugs. Luckily we have so many drugs that if a new treatment is discovered, people can just use preexisting drugs. For example, recently it was discovered that calcium channels played a role in schizophrenia. But isntead of spending 10-15 years making & testing a calcium channel drug, we just use the ones we already have. One study showed a 30% improvement in symptoms on calcium channel blockers for 2 patients. Most show improvement, but they don't give numbers.

 

[Nathan]

Nordy - I asked you something on ETL, though I am now thinking I maybe should have posted it here. Either way, fuck you.