Guys, help me out, are tricep kickbacks definately a waste?

[bignate73]

so now you see what im getting at....

which will give more stimulus? one where the tension is only, basically at the top (as in the picture) or one where you have tension throughout the ROM (as with a cable)

kickbacks are for those that need the feeling of "isolation" and the burn to feel they are doing something. its a "foo foo" exercise that the majority of the gym bunnies do...and still manage to do wrong.

 

[Citruscide]

How can an exercise add more definition? Defintion comes from low bodyfat, I believed. I mean I respect you, but really, I don'tagree with an exercise adding defenition.

Let me put it like this... I don't think triceps kickbacks are a great exercise for building mass in the triceps... but they are better for MUSCLE TONE -- rather than definition. Is that better smarty pants?

C-ditty

 

[Citruscide]

isnt a kickback a tricep pressdown with the tension only at the very locked out portion? seems like you get a few degrees of stress. for my money, if im doing an extension type movement, i'll stick to skullcrushers, overhead ext or pressdowns. i prefer close grip work more though.

Yeah, IMO -- not a good mass builder... but good for hitting higher rep, STF of your muscles... not too bad of an exercise to finish up your routine with... but I wouldnt' use it as a building block for mass by any means.

C-ditty

 

[gymtime]

Let me put it like this... I don't think triceps kickbacks are a great exercise for building mass in the triceps... but they are better for MUSCLE TONE -- rather than definition. Is that better smarty pants?

C-ditty

What's the difference between "muscle tone" and "definition?"

 

[Citruscide]

What's the difference between "muscle tone" and "definition?"

To me muscle tone exercises target the slow twitch fibers -- the endurance fibers -- the ones that don't make up that much size... I kind of have a habit of using the terms interchangably... I classify exercises as mass building or toning...

I don't know if that makes sense... I sometimes talk in my own vocabulary... it is sometimes easier for clients to understand me. I mean, a lot of the women clients i train want to keep a sleeker, defined look... not "bulky" -- however, I don't want to get into the whole point that women aren't likely to just get "big" by doing heavier weights... as it isn't a convincing argument for them.

Rather, I stick with a higher rep training regimen and try to avoid exercises like deadlifts, squats (anything that could make them "wider") -- same goes with triceps on a level -- I'm not going to use board presses for a girl who is 5'10" 110lbs and just wants to add a little tone... I can get the same results by using exercises like Triceps Kickbacks...

I feel like I'm rambling and not answering the question... as usual.

Whoever said it before was correct ... definition can be seen when you get your body fat lower. However, I've tried to explain FTF and STF to some clients before and I just get the "Which exercise should I do for X, Y, and Z" -- only a few guys really care about that who I train... everyone else just wants to be told what to do and how long it will take to lose fat, gain muscle or whatever it is they want.

Damn... I think I could have said this in a shorter manner...

C-ditty

 

[JOKER47]

To me muscle tone exercises target the slow twitch fibers -- the endurance fibers -- the ones that don't make up that much size... I kind of have a habit of using the terms interchangably... I classify exercises as mass building or toning...

I don't know if that makes sense... I sometimes talk in my own vocabulary... it is sometimes easier for clients to understand me. I mean, a lot of the women clients i train want to keep a sleeker, defined look... not "bulky" -- however, I don't want to get into the whole point that women aren't likely to just get "big" by doing heavier weights... as it isn't a convincing argument for them.

Rather, I stick with a higher rep training regimen and try to avoid exercises like deadlifts, squats (anything that could make them "wider") -- same goes with triceps on a level -- I'm not going to use board presses for a girl who is 5'10" 110lbs and just wants to add a little tone... I can get the same results by using exercises like Triceps Kickbacks...

Respectfully, I think that's all crap.

But you being a PT, I can also completely understand why you work with some of your clients this way.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard from people, "I don't want to get 'too' big, just tone."


Joker

 

[Citruscide]

Respectfully, I think that's all crap.

But you being a PT, I can also completely understand why you work with some of your clients this way.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard from people, "I don't want to get 'too' big, just tone."


Joker

I know. I tell them "Shit, what the hell have I been doing for all these years then?!?" LOL I mean, people think they will lift some weights and accidentially stumble onto the Mr.O stage...

C-ditty

 

[Nonerz]

Rather, I stick with a higher rep training regimen and try to avoid exercises like deadlifts, squats (anything that could make them "wider") -- same goes with triceps on a level -- I'm not going to use board presses for a girl who is 5'10" 110lbs and just wants to add a little tone... I can get the same results by using exercises like Triceps Kickbacks...

That makes me sad... DL's, squats and the like have been really good to me. I don't feel "wider" because of them either. I had a trainer last year when I first joined the gym and I told him I wanted to lose BF and get stronger. He had me doing stupid shit all the time. He really lacked in showing me the compound movements (you know the ones that are the biggest bang for your buck) and just put me through the same cookie cutter program that he was doing for all his other clients at that time (mostly isolation/core/machine stuff)...yawn.

I think it is a disservice to your female clients if you DON'T have them do these lifts. They don't have to go super heavy...just doing them with a moderate amount of weight will suffice. I think you know better but are just appeasing them (not a flame). If you have a chick who is 5'10" and 110 lbs...she doesn't need a little tone...she needs some food! That is waaaaaay too light for a girl that tall. I think (hope) you were just making a point and not giving a real life example!

BTW, my trainer had me doing kickbacks...

 

[Citruscide]

That makes me sad... DL's, squats and the like have been really good to me. I don't feel "wider" because of them either. I had a trainer last year when I first joined the gym and I told him I wanted to lose BF and get stronger. He had me doing stupid shit all the time. He really lacked in showing me the compound movements (you know the ones that are the biggest bang for your buck) and just put me through the same cookie cutter program that he was doing for all his other clients at that time (mostly isolation/core/machine stuff)...yawn.

I think it is a disservice to your female clients if you DON'T have them do these lifts. They don't have to go super heavy...just doing them with a moderate amount of weight will suffice. I think you know better but are just appeasing them (not a flame). If you have a chick who is 5'10" and 110 lbs...she doesn't need a little tone...she needs some food! That is waaaaaay too light for a girl that tall. I think (hope) you were just making a point and not giving a real life example!

BTW, my trainer had me doing kickbacks...

To each their own. I've talked with many females and seen many females to do squats, DL's etc... and their asses do get wider. There are better alternatives.

I do have my female clients do squats... although, I am thinking of getting them OUT of that... for the above mentioned reasons.

I don't make these claims without knowing what I'm saying... I have what i have SEEN in the gym and have discussed with other females who train. -- I'm not saying that every female will get wider doing those exercises... but that is what they do... Hell, even I have gotten wider doing deadlifts and squats. I'd say if you are doing deadlifts with any effectiveness... you SHOULD be getting wider -- maybe you should talk to your trainer about correct form on the deadlift?

Also, I don't think I am doing any of my client's a disservice. They walk out of the gym with their asses kicked. On leg day... they can't walk without some good old fashioned pain for several days later... I blast them on arms, back, shoulders the works... all of the females I train tell me they feel like thier ass was kicked.

And I do it all without the use of deadlifts... stiff legged deadlifts yes... but not conventional.

C-ditty

 

[Citruscide]

BTW -- before I go for the weekend, I just wanted to say I don't think that any one workout program is suited for everyone.

Squats and deadlifts might work for one... but not for another... at least not for the goals they want... 5x5, DC, Westside... all have different applications... just as diets and cardio routines do... Because the same workout will have the same effect on an individual doesn't mean that every individual will react in the same way or make gains the same way... we are all different in that respect...

Which is why workout programs must be customized for the individual. Before you dismiss an exercise as "foo-foo", take a step back and say it is "foo-foo" for you. As it might be something that works REALLY great for someone else.

With that being said... everyone have a great and safe weekend.

C-ditty