Dbol Real Gains (Retainable)

[KratosGOW]

Again and again our subject is DBOL
All over the forums u can find talking about dbol and gains
some say it's good,but just kickstarting
some say it's always good
some say it's only water but it gives you strenght
Personally i think everyone has different sides and gains
i've gained and retained a lot after a test and dbol cycle in the past
Why everybody keeps blaming it for water retention?
When u use higher dosage u get more water retention but u also
get more muscle mass,so you will be able to retain more muscle mass,
using higher dosage of dbol.
It still remains a myth but i think dbol it's amazing.
If you use it as a kickstart in a stack of more compounds the best feeling you have is
while using dbol.When u get off it your mood changes a bit and gains as well slow down,i know a lot of gains are WR i repeat it,but also muscle mass is beeing gained.
Don't really know if i'm sure,i had no sides but i still want your opinion
I'm thinking to raise(last time 60mg ED) the dosage and using it for 6 weeks long during a 12 weeks test+eq cycle.
(don't ask for cycle history)..just generally talking.....i'm confused a bit.

 

[johnnyboy3689282]

if your taking 60m/w... then your only taking 1 pill before you workout???? Im guessing a w means week. Dbol tabs are usually 10mg pink pentagons. should be taking 20-30 mg per day and upwards to 40-50mg per day for an experienced user.

 

[KratosGOW]

if your taking 60m/w... then your only taking 1 pill before you workout???? Im guessing a w means week. Dbol tabs are usually 10mg pink pentagons. should be taking 20-30 mg per day and upwards to 40-50mg per day for an experienced user.

lol
sorry man u're right i meant 60 mgs ed ...i'm going to edit it
(just got use to write /w from test and eq )

 

[Nelson Montana]

Again and again our subject is DBOL
All over the forums u can find talking about dbol and gains
some say it's good,but just kickstarting
some say it's always good
some say it's only water but it gives you strenght
Personally i think everyone has different sides and gains
i've gained and retained a lot after a test and dbol cycle in the past
Why everybody keeps blaming it for water retention?
When u use higher dosage u get more water retention but u also
get more muscle mass,so you will be able to retain more muscle mass,
using higher dosage of dbol.
It still remains a myth but i think dbol it's amazing.
If you use it as a kickstart in a stack of more compounds the best feeling you have is
while using dbol.When u get off it your mood changes a bit and gains as well slow down,i know a lot of gains are WR i repeat it,but also muscle mass is beeing gained.
Don't really know if i'm sure,i had no sides but i still want your opinion
I'm thinking to raise(last time 60mg ED) the dosage and using it for 6 weeks long during a 12 weeks test+eq cycle.
(don't ask for cycle history)..just generally talking.....i'm confused a bit.

Everything you mention is true -- to an extent. And not entirely.

And 60 mgs a day is too much.

 

[C0LUMB0]

Like Nelson said , no need for 60mg unless you have a fetish for high blood pressure .

What are you basic stats ?

 

[stevesmi]

ran at a smart dosage.. 20-30mg ED split up. and run with an AI, and liver support... dbol is excellent.. forma stanz and liver support is advised

running at too high a dose with no AI. dbol is a bloat and high bp oral.

 

[squatzilla]

Here's an idea: gains are easier retained based on your metabolism. If you're a proverbial 'hard-gainer' w/ a turbo fast metabolism then perhaps it's harder to maintain gains in size/strength. I've done 2 DBol only cycles, the 2nd was w/ peptides. I maintained most gains, but I'm naturally somewhat heavy & have a 'sluggish' metabolism. Just my 2 cc.

 

[KratosGOW]

Nelson M. thanks for agreeing,but i need you to correct me where i'm wrong
i trust your councils.
@stevesmi i know high dosage causes more sides but also much more gains
i mean doesn't it depend on your goals?or you meant that more than this it's useless
and your body does not absorb more..?

 

[stevesmi]

if you have too many sides it will be counter productive to make gains.

it is most certainly not true the higher the dosage the better the gains.. if you cannot sleep at night and are feeling blah all the time from the high bp then it makes it hard to grow

 

[KratosGOW]

agree with that
but if you don't feel sides as much as your describing you could really be impressed by your results
first time i used 25 mgs and then 60 and no sides.Wonderful gains.

 

[Judo Tom]

if you have too many sides it will be counter productive to make gains.

it is most certainly not true the higher the dosage the better the gains.. if you cannot sleep at night and are feeling blah all the time from the high bp then it makes it hard to grow

GREAT POST! More mg doesnt always mean more gains.

in both the short term like you are talking about or even long term. take a ton of dbol and wreck your liver and see how jacked you are in 10 years.

if you can make good gains w/ 20-30 mg of dbol stay there and be happy with a nice side free, or easy to combat side, dosage that allows good gains..

if you cant make good gains w/ 20-30mg of dbol than you need to adjust your training, diet, or something else is off.

 

[KratosGOW]

if you can make good gains w/ 20-30 mg of dbol stay there and be happy with a nice side free, or easy to combat side, dosage that allows good gains..

if you cant make good gains w/ 20-30mg of dbol than you need to adjust your training, diet, or something else is off.

It depends on your goals
if you stick to dbol and with those dosages
you would spend 1 year more of hard work to gain what u would gain at 50-60 in much less time.
it really depends on your goals,if you want to get bigger and faster u can't stick to 20,your body gets used to it from what i've read in various forum's topics.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^don't forget your androgen receptors.

guys that run high dosages of AAS will have a tough time growing on their next cycle cause they fry their receptors.

also on your point that 60mg of dbol can give you faster gains than 30, we will have to agree to disagree. i have never run high dosages of AAS and have made incredible gains the past 3 years i've been bodybuilding. I always run the lower end of the scale of dosages that fitness sites recommend. as long as you know how to diet (cals, carbs, protein), workout (minimum 5-6X per week, 15 sets, split workouts), and you keep your body in an anabolic/androgenic state (limit stress, get good sleep) you will gain muscle everytime whether you run 10mg or 100mg dbol a day.. in fact right now I am natty running unleashed, gear, creatine, protein bars all from NTBM and I am making gains

i do think your gains on 60mg dbol is a lot of water, it will aromatize in the body and fast. it will make your muscles look full.

 

[Judo Tom]

what are your stats and history? Im just doubting you are at the point where you NEED 60mg.

I could argue that why dont you just take 150mg of dbol and you will make even more gains.. or wait.. how about 300mg of dbol a day and you will get HUGE..

it depends on your strategy more so then your goals. are you willing do do anything and risk your health and life to get these goals or do you want a safer approach. do you want to rely on drugs to get your goals accomplished or are you willing to put the hard work in the gym and in the kitchen. can you stick to a diet and not cheat? etc etc

 

[KratosGOW]

if you cant make good gains w/ 20-30mg of dbol than you need to adjust your training, diet, or something else is off.

I would never increase dosage because i'm not growing,i would
modify my diet,training,and sleeping.
So said this i would increase to have BIGGER gains and i don't get
what you're trying to prove.Everyone has his health,it doesn't mean that
if you have problems and sides by 60 mgs everyone has to have 'em.
If u know what i mean...

 

[Judo Tom]

look its just an opinion.. its like saying what is a better cycle 500mg of test, 1g of test or 2g of test.

The one that produces the most gains during the cycle is not necessarily the best cycle.

And again it depends on your stats/history and goals.

 

[mryar]

^^^don't forget your androgen receptors.

guys that run high dosages of AAS will have a tough time growing on their next cycle cause they fry their receptors.

Not really understanding "fry their receptors." Simply working out releases cortisol which breaks proteins (androgen receptor is a protein) down.

"Androgen receptor content did not change one hour following the single set [of squats] but significantly decreased by 46% following the multiple set. Increasing the volume of resistance exercise significantly affects acute metabolic and hormonal responses. In addition, the higher volume of resistance exercise resulted in a reduction in androgen receptor content in skeletal muscle one hour post-exercise possibly due to greater protein catabolism associated with the higher level of stress."
​

Strength Training 4

 

[KratosGOW]

Not really understanding "fry their receptors." Simply working out releases cortisol which breaks proteins (androgen receptor is a protein) down.

"Androgen receptor content did not change one hour following the single set [of squats] but significantly decreased by 46% following the multiple set. Increasing the volume of resistance exercise significantly affects acute metabolic and hormonal responses. In addition, the higher volume of resistance exercise resulted in a reduction in androgen receptor content in skeletal muscle one hour post-exercise possibly due to greater protein catabolism associated with the higher level of stress."
​

hmm...very interesting
what else can u say on cortisol's levels?
do you usually have some prevention for it(if it exists)?

 

[mryar]

hmm...very interesting
what else can u say on cortisol's levels?
do you usually have some prevention for it(if it exists)?

Catabolism is pretty much caused by cortisol. Cortisol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Gives some suggestions on lowering cortisol, how it functions etc.

Here's a good link http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/hormoneResUNM.html

If you stress your body too much in a workout (thus excreting more cortisol), not as much muscle will be built (with an asterisk, read below)

In a unique recent study, Izquierdo et al. (2006) examined hormonal responses in an 11-week resistance training to failure (one group) vs. non-failure (second group) followed by an identical (both groups) 5-week peaking period of maximal strength and power protocol. Subjects were 42 physically active males randomly assigned to the two groups. The results showed that 11 weeks of training to failure and not-to-failure resulted in similar gains in 1RM strength, muscle power output of the arm and leg extensor muscles, and maximal number of repetitions in the squat. However, after the identical 5-week peaking period of maximal strength and power training, the non-failure group showed greater increases in strength, power, resting testosterone levels, and reduced coritsol levels when compared to the failure group.

I love studies

 

[KratosGOW]

If you stress your body too much in a workout (thus excreting more cortisol), not as much muscle will be built

I had a period that i was fully stressed and my workout
were conditioned...
(girlfriend,distance,my job etc)
and a friend of mine told me about cortisol but i've never
considered it so important...i'ma chek it better.Thanks for this.

 

[1Johnboy]

Should be getting my DBol soon and will be my first real cycle, plan on low dosage to see how thing react. Also it just seems low dosages can = longer kept gains from what I read.

 

[KratosGOW]

Also it just seems low dosages can = longer kept gains from what I read.

Not true.
Proper diet and training(sleep as well) are the keys
Dosage have nothing to do with kept gains(at least for me
i did a cycle 60 mgs ED and kept almost all of it)



But..Beeing your first cycle use LOW dosage
You first need to see how your body will react(bp,gyno,hairloss)
and then see if you can increase.Some guys have problems even at 30 mgs.So before raising dosage see how it works with 30 mgs ed.

 

[mryar]

I had a period that i was fully stressed and my workout
were conditioned...
(girlfriend,distance,my job etc)
and a friend of mine told me about cortisol but i've never
considered it so important...i'ma chek it better.Thanks for this.

Its the counterpart to testosterone. Test builds you up and cortisol breaks you down. It was important through history as meals every 2-4 hours wasn't always possible. You body runs on.. well I'll just paste the info rather than screw it up

Possibly one of the most informative pages I've seen in a while:

Substrate Utilization

• At rest, 33% of the body's energy comes from carbohydrates, or glycogen, stored within the muscles and liver. 66% comes from fat.
• During aerobic work, 50-60% of the energy comes from fats
  • Primarily carbohydrates are used during the first several minutes of exercise
  • For an average fit person, it takes 20 to 30 minutes of continuous aerobic activity to burn 50% fat and 50% carbohydrate
  • There is approximately a 7 fold increase of fat mobilization after 1 hour of exercise
• Proteins contribute less than 2% of the substrates used during exercise of less than 1 hour.
  • Slightly more proteins are utilized as a fuel source during prolonged exercise.
    • During the final moments of exercise lasting 3 to 5 hours, protein utilization may reach 5-15% of the fuel supply
  • Protein can supply up to 10% of total energy substrate utilization during prolonged intense exercise if glycogen stores and energy intake is inadequate (Brooks, 1987)

 

[stevesmi]

vitamin C and AAS both help combat cortisol spikes.

 

[mryar]

Should be getting my DBol soon and will be my first real cycle, plan on low dosage to see how thing react. Also it just seems low dosages can = longer kept gains from what I read.

I have some good news for you!!!

From Science Blog:

Three groups were examined. One group was comprised of seven power liftersused anabolic steroids for long periods of time but stopped their usage some years ago. One group was currently power lifting but did not use steroids. The third group was power lifting and taking steroids. The researchers examined muscle fiber distribution, fiber area, subsarcolemmal and internal myonuclei number per fiber, myonuclei expressing androgen receptors, satellite cell numbers per fiber, and proportion of split fibers in each muscle for each individual. who had previously
The researchers found that several years after anabolic steroid withdrawal, and with no or low current strength-training, the muscle fiber area intensity, the number of nuclei per fiber in the quadriceps was still comparable to that of athletes that were currently performing high intensity strength-training. They also discovered that the shoulder-neck fiber areas were comparable to high-intensity trained athletes and the number of nuclei per fiber was even higher than found in the current steroid-using group.
According to the lead researcher, Dr. Eriksson, ”It is possible that the high number of nuclei we found in the muscle might be beneficial for an athlete who continues or resumes strength training because increased myonuclei opens up the possibility of increasing protein synthesis, which can lead to muscle mass.” He added, “Based on the characteristics between doped and non-doped powerlifters, we conclude that a period of anabolic steroid usage is an advantage for a power lifter in competition, even several years after they stop taking a doping drug.”
​

 

[C0LUMB0]

Not true.
Proper diet and training(sleep as well) are the keys
Dosage have nothing to do with kept gains(at least for me
i did a cycle 60 mgs ED and kept almost all of it)



But..Beeing your first cycle use LOW dosage
You first need to see how your body will react(bp,gyno,hairloss)
and then see if you can increase.Some guys have problems even at 30 mgs.So before raising dosage see how it works with 30 mgs ed.

Having looked at some advice you dished out in another thread...

I Am going to ask you AGAIN
What are you Basic stats ???? age,height,weight,bodyfat,traing experience , cycle history.

 

[KratosGOW]

Great infos mryar.

@COLUMBO read my first post again and u'll see this:
"Don't really know if i'm sure,i had no sides but i still want your opinion
I'm thinking to raise(last time 60mg ED) the dosage and using it for 6 weeks long during a 12 weeks test+eq cycle.
(don't ask for cycle history)..just generally talking.....i'm confused a bit."
That's it,nothing more.I can still gain on 60 mgs if that's your doubt.

 

[mryar]

Here's some more on cortisol http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/cortisol.html

When we exercise, regardless of whether it is strength training or aerobic exercise, cortisol is released in proportion to the intensity of the effort. (...) When concerned with prolonged aerobic exercise, cortisol clearly functions to preserve body carbohydrate stores. Cortisol increases alternate fuels for muscle, such as fatty acids and amino acids (from muscle amino acid stores and protein catabolism), impairs glucose entry into skeletal muscle, and supplies the fuels (amino acids) for the liver to increase glucose production(...)

muscle strength (and hypertrophy) gains may be inhibited if strength training occurs too soon after aerobic exercise (e.g. the same day). This has nothing to do with a hormone response mechanism, although it is easy to blame cortisol. Rather, we believe that the signals given to working muscle that induce either strength vs. endurance adaptations are diluted when combining strength and endurance (aerobic) training. This is like giving the muscle mixed messages. On the one hand we are telling the muscle to build more proteins for increasing mitochondrial mass (increasing the cell’s organelle involved in energy production) during aerobic exercise, and then we tell the muscle not to focus on mitochondria, but to now increase muscle contractile protein synthesis during resistance exercise

 

[C0LUMB0]

Great infos mryar.

@COLUMBO read my first post again and u'll see this:
"Don't really know if i'm sure,i had no sides but i still want your opinion
I'm thinking to raise(last time 60mg ED) the dosage and using it for 6 weeks long during a 12 weeks test+eq cycle.
(don't ask for cycle history)..just generally talking.....i'm confused a bit."
That's it,nothing more.I can still gain on 60 mgs if that's your doubt.

@ YOU ....read the rules of the site.

next time you refuse basic stats you are getting on the bus to bannedville

 

[Rocky_dreammuscle]

60mgs Ed thats fucking heaps mate.

It's not even worth it doing high dosage especially orals

I hate taking orals especially the ones gives u more water then muscles.

I have done d Bol only cycle long time ago 15mgs Ed for 8 weeks
Was ok wasn't the best tho.
Not quality mass only smooth ugly bloated look.

IMO test + tren + winny cycles are simply the best.

good gains in strength and muscle.

Why are u not telling your body stats
We here to help you out.
More info means more help.

 

[KratosGOW]

treat the staff of the site respectfully. they work their asses off and do a lot of things on the site that you cannot see or even know about to keep things on here going good.

 

[ceo]

If he gets another chance that is.

 

[moya]

more steroids = more gains ONLY if the right conditions allow ie. food, rest and to an extent, training...
if you gain x ammount on muscle on 2000 calories, upping the dose is pretty worthless imo... unless youre cutting i suppose... which wouldnt apply to dbol anyways...

the OP says generally speaking... and then defends it by saying 'but i can handle the sides', well that is no longer general speaking is it...