Carbs required for growth??

[overhead]

I was reading through July's Powerlifting USA and came across and article about Bill Kazmaier. The interesting part was that the article stated that Kaz believes carbohydrates are his enemy, no bread, rice, sugar, pasta, potatoes etc. Now I always thought that carbs were required to grow muscle. Obviously Kaz is 325 pounds of pretty solid muscle. That made me start thinking about why carbs would be required by the body to grow muscle. I understand they are needed to refill muscle glycogen and are better to fuel weight training workouts than fat, but are they *required* to gain lean muscle mass? Could one take in some carbs to fuel a workout, than some directly after to refill glycogen, and then not touch any carbs until the next pre-workout mean and still gain lean muscle?

 

[The Red Dragon]

I think it has to do with insulin, insulin shuttles protein into the cells too, esp during a spike...and the fact that carbs allow one to lift maximal loads.

 

[Luke530]

Could one take in some carbs to fuel a workout, than some directly after to refill glycogen, and then not touch any carbs until the next pre-workout mean and still gain lean muscle?

yes, as long as you make sure you are still consuming adequate calories at the end of the day. just remember, insulin is your most anabolic hormone... use it wisely. remember, you also use carbs throughout the day as well... my suggestion is to have your first 3-4 meals be carbs + protein and your last 3-4 to be fats + protein.

 

[overhead]

Thats pretty much how I eat now. I focus on getting carbs early in the day, especially after workouts. It was more of a general question. I was thinking that I may place too much import on eating carbs at times when they really are not required. If Kaz can get to 325 on a low carb type diet, than why in the world would anyone need carbs? I wish they would have listed a typical diet for him. Maybe it was a misprint, but it did not look like it.

 

[gonelifting]

interested in hearing more on his diet. Maybe it`s published somewhere. That would be a good read.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Overhead, I'll post my answer to your pm here. First, no carbs are not a requirement for muscle growth. Many more primative cultures, as well as generations of our ancestors, ate/eat very low carb or zero carb diets. Their muscle did grow after being weened off of their mothers milk. Thus muscle growth does not require carbs in human beings. Kaz is a perfect example of someone who got massive on low carbs.

Dave Polumbo, aka the anabolic freak is hardly small. He is considered to be pretty massive even compaired to other guys who compete in the super-heavy weight class inthe NPC on stage with him. Have you ever looked at his bulking diet? High protien, moderate fat, low carb. Once every 7-10 days he eats a meal with about 300 grams of carbs in it to keep his glycogen stores full. High protien intake can do this to a certian extent, because amino acids are easly converted into glycogen, however alittle carb boost every now and then will create a more ideal anabolic environment. Oh, btw due to his fairly lean bodyfat year round, Dave diets for 5 weeks to prep for a show... and he gets a cheat meal every day at mcdonalds to keep him from loosing too much weight, since he only needs to drop a couple ibs a week.

Dr Mario DiPasqual (I might have mispelled that), a medical doctor and former olympic powerlifter has written alot on year-round low carb diets for both competetive bodybuilders and powerlifters. He advocates using a modified ckd for bulking in which you miniumize insulin levels most of the time to limit fat gain (you only need small amount of insulin to increase protien sythesis), and maxiumize circulating levels of hgh and a number growth factors by keeping blood sugar levels in check, then using a carb loading phase each weak to overfill one's glycogen stores, via the supercompensation effect. This is very much like the carb depleting and loading that bodybuilders use just before a show. This supercompensation effect creates an extremely anabolic state. BTW, this is also the sort of diet plan I use. Hope that helps answer your question bro.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Overhead, in fact you are correct in what you are wondering about carbs. Once your glycogen stores are full, any carbs that you eat are very likely to be stored as bodyfat, if they are not immediately burned off as fuel. So, once you have replenish your muscle glyogen post-workout, any further carbs you take in will not really be of benefit to you.

 

[Mr. Sexy Man]

but isnt getting big all about maximizing muscle cell volume?(what steroids do right). and nothing blows up my muscles like carbs.

i dont think using bill kazmier and david palumbo are good examples at all, these two have done alot of steroids to make them grow, steroids increase protien synthesis, thats probably why their main foods were protien.

 

[Gel]

Back on the Ketogenic diet I go then!

 

[Mr. Sexy Man]

just because it works for two juicedoesnt mean it will work for everyone natural and on juice

fat and protien dont hold any water and dont do anything to volumize muscle cells

only carbs