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Best Drink To Pack On Solid Mass
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Silent Method
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About that, a good mod cut those bullshit comments out of "NeIson's" post. My post was edited to keep that bull out of here.Spidey said:
It was a good call...
I told you Nelson, another reatrded post and its gone.
I was NOT kidding.
Fonz
I was NOT kidding.
Fonz
Last edited by a moderator:
Silent Method
New member
Back on task...
quote:
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Originally posted by Nelson Montana
i discovered alternate routes, MANY OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PRAISED ON THIS VERY BOARD such as the ab exercise, and the calve routine and many other concepts.
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SM: "I'm curious, what concepts related to your ab and calf routines are new discoveries?"
quote:
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Originally posted by Nelson Montana
Silent; Suddenly you're curious to hear my methods? Let's just say that it's doubtful you'll find tha ab exercise anywhere else. Considereing the fact that there are hundreds of ab articles every year, that's saying something. Do a search . Dozens of people on this board have gotten great results from the calve routine, but what does it matter? You already know everything and I know nothing. Remember
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SM: "Ease up there big boy. First, I'm always curious to see different methods.
Regardless, that is not what I asked. You sated "i discovered alternate routes, MANY OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PRAISED ON THIS VERY BOARD such as the ab exercise, and the calve routine and many other concepts."
I asked, I'm curious, what concepts related to your ab and calf routines are new discoveries?"
BTW Nelson, you never addressed my post #306 in the thread. Come on, get your head in the game. We've got all the time in the world.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
I understand what you're saying about the last set but I still maintain it isn't a very accurate gauge. It's like the HIT one set to failure concept. Well, what is failure? If you can do another set one minute later are you REALLY exausted? It's too hard to say for certain.
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This is certainly a better notion then those you had posted before. However, you're still a bit cloudy.
Look, these are some principles of exercise physiology we must understand:
*Exercise is a single acute bout of physical exertion requiring energy expenditure beyond regular daily physical activity. (For athletes, the intensity of energy expenditure during exercise is significantly elevated and exercise session are highly structured - making actual "exercise" bouts easy to identify.)
*Exercise disrupts the dynamic equilibruim of the body. These homeostatic disruptions are cumulatively the body's exercise response.
*In large part, exercise response patterns can be gauged. If they could not be, the body would make no differentiation in function between exercise and non-exercise - there would not be exercise physiology.
Now, what are we trying to gauge? You brought up the notion of the "un-gaugeable" interval between exercise and post-exercise in specific regard to glycogen resynthesis a couple pages back. Lets roll with that.
One answer is simple: Glycogen synthase. The level of the very enzyme responsible for glycogen resynthesis is floating around in enormous quantities during that 15 minute post-exercise window (and in lesser but still abnormally high abundance up to an hour after exercise).
OK, enough from the glycogen replenishment aspect - how does this relate to muscle growth? Again, analyze exercise response. Read what has already been posted in this thread. In the most simple terms I can muster: Exercise -> catabolism + 4:1 high GI/high BV protein -> anabolism.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
You said the meaningful thing mentioned in this entire thread. (And Silent Method should take note) You said the evidence suggests that it PROBABLY increases the chance of muscle growth. You are so right! All I'M saying is that I believe from my experiences and observations that it PROBABLY isn't that much of a difference.
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This is fine. I have no problem with this. I do have a problem with much of the nonsense you had put forth in argument before getting to this point.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
Also (and this is important), why do coaches enploy these methods with cyclists and swimmers and runners? BECAUSE THEY ARE ENDURENCE ATHLETES WHO MUST DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO GET AS MUCH ENERGY AS POSSIBLE. I would do the same exact thing if I were training a swimmer or a cyclists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the glycogen resynthesis perspective you keep coming back to you are largely correct in this point. Read what I have already posted on this thread – way back. After a bout of anaerobic exercise such as a weight training session, the body needs very little help in regard to glycogen resynthesis. (In terms of glycogen replenishment, high GI carbs shine following aerobic, higher duration exercise.)
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
But that has NOTHING to do with muscle growth!!!
I think we're finally in agreement here .
One last thing. Not every observation is documented on the net. I'll bet you can't find an single references on the net that an apple is red. But it is. The same goes with this. My experience, both personal and with clients and from speaking with athletes of all levels (which is extensive) tells me, that a high GI post workout as opposed to a low GI carb, fifteen minutes after or 25 minutes after , shows no discernable difference in MUSCLE GROWTH. This is the point of contention that Silent could not comprehend, but instead he chose to harp on it and harp on it. I'm willing accept that he doesn't get it and move on, but he insists on trying to make me out as incompetant and that pisses me off. I know it shouldn't because e's just a jerk, but I have a little too much pride somethimes.
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Again, you are limiting yourself to concerns of glycogen. The concept of anabolic drive is quite real. Any athlete knows this – and for bodybuilders it is an obsession. The post-exercise recovery shake I have recommended in this thread WILL catapult an athlete from a catabolic post-exercise state to a strong anabolic state. This has everything to do with muscle growth.
Now, if you wish to debate the degree to which this will actually affect muscle growth, fine. As a piece of the “anabolic” puzzle, I believe it will yield a significant advantage over time. Men like Dr. Michael Colgan, the world’s premier authority on sports nutrition, believe it and have measured it. The elite athletes they train have seen it for themselves.
Nelson, what kind of clients have you tried the 4:1 High GI carb/High BV protein shake with? Did you have a control group with similar stats training and eating in otherwise identical ways? For how many months were they engaged in the systematic testing of the proposed recovery meal? How about years? Places like the Colgan Institute track this stuff. They, and others, say it works.
Playing off of genarr's post, I readily concede that precise, stopwatch timing of the post-recovery meal is quite unnecessary. The recovery meal is not rocket science. Following exercise the body is in a state ripe for the utilization of the nutrients. With time, normal equilibrium returns and the introduction of the recovery meal is less adventageous.
Like you said - what we do is a marathon of years, not a single day. This is exactly what the post-exercise recovery shake fits so well with us. It's easy as hell for most of us to utilize, made correctly it tastes good, and, over the course of time, it works!
Focus. You're either dodging, misunderstanding, or are unable to understand my question. Let's run through it again.Nelson Montana said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
i discovered alternate routes, MANY OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PRAISED ON THIS VERY BOARD such as the ab exercise, and the calve routine and many other concepts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SM: "I'm curious, what concepts related to your ab and calf routines are new discoveries?"
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
Silent; Suddenly you're curious to hear my methods? Let's just say that it's doubtful you'll find tha ab exercise anywhere else. Considereing the fact that there are hundreds of ab articles every year, that's saying something. Do a search . Dozens of people on this board have gotten great results from the calve routine, but what does it matter? You already know everything and I know nothing. Remember
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SM: "Ease up there big boy. First, I'm always curious to see different methods.
Regardless, that is not what I asked. You sated "i discovered alternate routes, MANY OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PRAISED ON THIS VERY BOARD such as the ab exercise, and the calve routine and many other concepts."
I asked, I'm curious, what concepts related to your ab and calf routines are new discoveries?"
BTW Nelson, you never addressed my post #306 in the thread. Come on, get your head in the game. We've got all the time in the world.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
I understand what you're saying about the last set but I still maintain it isn't a very accurate gauge. It's like the HIT one set to failure concept. Well, what is failure? If you can do another set one minute later are you REALLY exausted? It's too hard to say for certain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is certainly a better notion then those you had posted before. However, you're still a bit cloudy.
Look, these are some principles of exercise physiology we must understand:
*Exercise is a single acute bout of physical exertion requiring energy expenditure beyond regular daily physical activity. (For athletes, the intensity of energy expenditure during exercise is significantly elevated and exercise session are highly structured - making actual "exercise" bouts easy to identify.)
*Exercise disrupts the dynamic equilibruim of the body. These homeostatic disruptions are cumulatively the body's exercise response.
*In large part, exercise response patterns can be gauged. If they could not be, the body would make no differentiation in function between exercise and non-exercise - there would not be exercise physiology.
Now, what are we trying to gauge? You brought up the notion of the "un-gaugeable" interval between exercise and post-exercise in specific regard to glycogen resynthesis a couple pages back. Lets roll with that.
One answer is simple: Glycogen synthase. The level of the very enzyme responsible for glycogen resynthesis is floating around in enormous quantities during that 15 minute post-exercise window (and in lesser but still abnormally high abundance up to an hour after exercise).
OK, enough from the glycogen replenishment aspect - how does this relate to muscle growth? Again, analyze exercise response. Read what has already been posted in this thread. In the most simple terms I can muster: Exercise -> catabolism + 4:1 high GI/high BV protein -> anabolism.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
You said the meaningful thing mentioned in this entire thread. (And Silent Method should take note) You said the evidence suggests that it PROBABLY increases the chance of muscle growth. You are so right! All I'M saying is that I believe from my experiences and observations that it PROBABLY isn't that much of a difference.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is fine. I have no problem with this. I do have a problem with much of the nonsense you had put forth in argument before getting to this point.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
Also (and this is important), why do coaches enploy these methods with cyclists and swimmers and runners? BECAUSE THEY ARE ENDURENCE ATHLETES WHO MUST DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO GET AS MUCH ENERGY AS POSSIBLE. I would do the same exact thing if I were training a swimmer or a cyclists.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the glycogen resynthesis perspective you keep coming back to you are largely correct in this point. Read what I have already posted on this thread – way back. After a bout of anaerobic exercise such as a weight training session, the body needs very little help in regard to glycogen resynthesis. (In terms of glycogen replenishment, high GI carbs shine following aerobic, higher duration exercise.)
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana
But that has NOTHING to do with muscle growth!!!
I think we're finally in agreement here .
One last thing. Not every observation is documented on the net. I'll bet you can't find an single references on the net that an apple is red. But it is. The same goes with this. My experience, both personal and with clients and from speaking with athletes of all levels (which is extensive) tells me, that a high GI post workout as opposed to a low GI carb, fifteen minutes after or 25 minutes after , shows no discernable difference in MUSCLE GROWTH. This is the point of contention that Silent could not comprehend, but instead he chose to harp on it and harp on it. I'm willing accept that he doesn't get it and move on, but he insists on trying to make me out as incompetant and that pisses me off. I know it shouldn't because e's just a jerk, but I have a little too much pride somethimes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, you are limiting yourself to concerns of glycogen. The concept of anabolic drive is quite real. Any athlete knows this – and for bodybuilders it is an obsession. The post-exercise recovery shake I have recommended in this thread WILL catapult an athlete from a catabolic post-exercise state to a strong anabolic state. This has everything to do with muscle growth.
Now, if you wish to debate the degree to which this will actually affect muscle growth, fine. As a piece of the “anabolic” puzzle, I believe it will yield a significant advantage over time. Men like Dr. Michael Colgan, the world’s premier authority on sports nutrition, believe it and have measured it. The elite athletes they train have seen it for themselves.
Nelson, what kind of clients have you tried the 4:1 High GI carb/High BV protein shake with? Did you have a control group with similar stats training and eating in otherwise identical ways? For how many months were they engaged in the systematic testing of the proposed recovery meal? How about years? Places like the Colgan Institute track this stuff. They, and others, say it works.
Playing off of genarr's post, I readily concede that precise, stopwatch timing of the post-recovery meal is quite unnecessary. The recovery meal is not rocket science. Following exercise the body is in a state ripe for the utilization of the nutrients. With time, normal equilibrium returns and the introduction of the recovery meal is less adventageous.
Like you said - what we do is a marathon of years, not a single day. This is exactly what the post-exercise recovery shake fits so well with us. It's easy as hell for most of us to utilize, made correctly it tastes good, and, over the course of time, it works!
SM: Why are you re-posting that same thread? This is what makes me take you less seriously. You keep harping over and over and over on these same points. I addressed them You didn't lie my answer. I GET IT! I don't want to continue discussing it. You win! Alright? Let it go bro. Let it go. Do you understand what that means? Let it GO.
TPH: You're mistaken. I did not attack Fonz. I responded to his disgusting and deceitful comments about me. There's a difference.
Maybe he's done a lot for this board. I think I have too. The only difference is that he's given more plagerized information and he's given more BAD advice than anyone else. But again, that's for the members to decide. Cast your vote for Fonz if that's the way you feel. But let's keep track. let's not just have bickering back and forth.
TPH: You're mistaken. I did not attack Fonz. I responded to his disgusting and deceitful comments about me. There's a difference.
Maybe he's done a lot for this board. I think I have too. The only difference is that he's given more plagerized information and he's given more BAD advice than anyone else. But again, that's for the members to decide. Cast your vote for Fonz if that's the way you feel. But let's keep track. let's not just have bickering back and forth.
Silent Method
New member
You did not address them. (BTW, what changed your mind about wanting to continue the discussion? Yesterday you were gung ho about forever contributing to this "never ending" thread. If so, lets stick to matters of athletic practice.)Nelson Montana said:
You state: "i discovered alternate routes, MANY OF WHICH HAVE BEEN PRAISED ON THIS VERY BOARD such as the ab exercise, and the calve routine and many other concepts."
The question I'm asking you to address is what concepts related to your ab and calf routines are new discoveries?
Thus far you have not directly addressed this question.
Secondly, you state: "My experience, both personal and with clients and from speaking with athletes of all levels (which is extensive) tells me, that a high GI post workout as opposed to a low GI carb, fifteen minutes after or 25 minutes after , shows no discernable difference in MUSCLE GROWTH."
I replied "Now, if you wish to debate the degree to which this will actually affect muscle growth, fine. As a piece of the “anabolic” puzzle, I believe it will yield a significant advantage over time. Men like Dr. Michael Colgan, the world’s premier authority on sports nutrition, believe it and have measured it. The elite athletes they train have seen it for themselves.
Nelson, what kind of clients have you tried the 4:1 High GI carb/High BV protein shake with? Did you have a control group with similar stats training and eating in otherwise identical ways? For how many months were they engaged in the systematic testing of the proposed recovery meal? How about years? Places like the Colgan Institute track this stuff. They, and others, say it works."
You have not addressed this.
Nelson Montana said:
Who do you think you are fooling? You weren't here in 2000. 2001..etc
You don't know what you are talking about, Fonz has contributed more than you EVER will.
You are a fraud, if you wouldn't have taken your promotion too far, you would have made a lot more sales in the long run. At first I kept my mouth shut, but now you are just a nuisance to the board.
The vets with a few exceptions like genarr3 and needsize think you are a joke. Most other members do as well and 95% of the anabolic mods, i'm not talking about Citruside, guys who haven't voiced there opinion of you because they are mods and it hurts George's business.
Actually, this is partially George's fault for allowing this to go on.
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