Best Drink To Pack On Solid Mass

[BigSexyAl]

Oh man...I just saw his web site...WHAT A JOKE...I envisioned him to look like a bodybuilder...turns out the guy looks like one of the village people...Nelson...Im not hating, im just being honest... You look gay

And if you want to sell your B.S. I would use a better subject for the before and after pics....plain and simple YOU AINT SHIT BRO

 

[jubei]

LMFAO. I just checked out your pics. WTF are you trying to pull.

 

[Fonz]

You know what's interesting?

NO ONE addressed my post whre I explained the issue. Why?

Because they don't care.

They have one objective. To hate. No one is really disputing what I said, yet these same people make personal attacks. That doesn't faze me because I know where it's coming from. It comes from ignorance and fear. They don't know any better, so they think it's best to tear down what they don't understand. It's easier to join a mob than to open your mind. A small man can feel big by putting down someone of stature. If it takes lies, so be it. It's sad, really.

In the case with Fonz, he hates because he used to be the head honcho here until I discreded him -- proved where his "original" ideas were just stolen. Showed how his theories were wrong. And exposed him as the egomaniacal kid that really is. So when he sees that the tide has turned against me, he jumps in and lashes out, thinking it will gain momemtum and aybe he can elevate his status once more. It's too late Fonz.

Tell you what. Let it all out. Think of every insult you can. None of it has merit, because it's based on nothing. It's just trash talk. Or should I say, it's trash talking. You aren't worth my time. So use this post to spew all the garbage you want. I'll be elsewhere trying to conduct an intellegent conversaton. But I'm sure Fonz will wait until someone starts in, then he'll get his digs in -- maybe even accuse me of being the one who starts flame fests. It's so pathetic.

I guess I allow myself to get caught up in this stuff because I have the silly notion that people will listen to reason. But I know that isn't everyones objective. I never uderstood this hateful mentality. I think that's a good thing.

It's all yours. Take it away. Have fun.

You dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole Nelson.

You were caught on bb.com using aliases to agree with YOURSELF on the same thread.....haha Not ONE, but TWO aliases.....LMFAO

If that doesn't take the cake, I really don't know what does.

Your credibility as far as I'm concerned regarding supplements and AAS is ZERO.

Also, if I EVER catch you pulling the alias thing on here, I will have you immediately banned. I'm not kidding either. ALL the anabolic mods are in agreement with this btw, we will have you banned from EF FOREVER.

"In the case with Fonz, he hates because he used to be the head honcho here until I discreded him -- proved where his "original" ideas were just stolen. Showed how his theories were wrong. And exposed him as the egomaniacal kid that really is. So when he sees that the tide has turned against me, he jumps in and lashes out, thinking it will gain momemtum and aybe he can elevate his status once more. It's too late Fonz".

You're not talking to an 18 y/o here. Compare me to a brick wall. Impenetrable. Your little verbal monologues do not impress me either.

You manage to twist everybodies words and obfuscate your accusations, so that you always seem to be the victim.

Nelson Montana: Champion of the underdogs.........lol
Thats the impression you try to convey all the time, and while this might work on newbies, it definately does not work on the vets here, who see you as you truly are.......a farce.

And you accuse me of stealing ideas, please do elaborate....as I find this rather amusing.

All the research into DNP, nutrient partitioning agents(CLA/GLA/AlCar/R-ALA), trenbolone's effects, cholesterol lowering agents and their synergism, liver detoxifiers etc. etc... (the list is pretty long) has been covered by me and a few others.

In the 4 years I have been on the boards I can honestly say I have advanced the science of physiological enhancement by quite some margin. This was done my meticulous experimentation and a massive amount of reading. Not to mention great expense.

Can you say the same?

I think not. You're an opportunist. Nothing more. I have seen people like you all over the world and they are all the same.

Fonz

 

[Dozing21]

If that doesn't take the cake, I really don't know what does.

I'd say the International Male model-thing takes the cake.

--------------------------------
Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, small minds talk about people."
Eleanor Roosevelt NOT Fonz

 

[Fonz]

I'd say the International Male model-thing takes the cake.

--------------------------------
Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, small minds talk about people."
Eleanor Roosevelt NOT Fonz

Nice IP adddress. God you're pathetic.

And how does the avatar thing in ANY WAY undermine my knowledge of supplements and AAS?

Please do tell...as I'd love to know.

I suggest before you actually use your fingers to type out stupid answers, you consider the logic of your arguments.

Better luck next time...I have about 40 pics of myself shredded to the bone. I did this to flatten all the pathetic losers that decided it was cool to pick on Fonz back then.

I specifically said back then, I would get the last laugh...and I did. 40 times over.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

And to put the final nail in your coffin:

Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, small minds talk about people."
Eleanor Roosevelt NOT Fonz

Really.....no shit.....Mine says:

"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about facts, and weak minds talk about people"

---- Fonz 6/2002

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

So nice try.

Its hilarious tomme how jealous some people are. Open a book and stop watching so much bloody MTV you marsupial. Maybe you'll actually learn something for a change.

Fonz

 

[BigSexyAl]

Damn...Nelson just got a mouth full of dick.

Eat it up bitch.

 

[Dozing21]

C'mon Fonz. People are not THAT stupid. You don't have to be an English major to notice that:

-Weak and small basically mean the same thing in this context. They are synonymous.
-Events and facts, again, the same thing here.

You changed 2 words. The basic idea and structure are still the same in both the original and your version. This is PLAGIARISM, plain and simple.

Honestly, if you consider this to be the product of your own mind then one has to wonder if all these studies you claim to have done have merely been copied/stolen from someone else and reworded by you. You sir are a genius. Quit pestering Nelson Montana. At least he has some original ideas (even if incorrect at times).

I rest my case.

 

[Dozing21]

Almost forgot: please learn to take criticism. Even though a lot of people want to kiss your ass on the boards, some may still disagree with you. When this happens you don't have to revert to name calling and insults.

 

[Fonz]

C'mon Fonz. People are not THAT stupid. You don't have to be an English major to notice that:

-Weak and small basically mean the same thing in this context. They are synonymous.
-Events and facts, again, the same thing here.

You changed 2 words. The basic idea and structure are still the same in both the original and your version. This is PLAGIARISM, plain and simple.

Honestly, if you consider this to be the product of your own mind then one has to wonder if all these studies you claim to have done have merely been copied/stolen from someone else and reworded by you. You sir are a genius. Quit pestering Nelson Montana. At least he has some original ideas (even if incorrect at times).

I rest my case.

"Honestly, if you consider this to be the product of your own mind then one has to wonder if all these studies you claim to have done have merely been copied/stolen from someone else and reworded by you."

Excuse me?

I seriously hope thats a joke because, not only will I have you banned for implying that complete bullshit, but I will use my influence on other boards to have you banned from those as well because those studies took me 3 months and 2 months repectively. I have also shared my blood test results inj order to optimize what the best cholesterol lowering/improving supplemnets are.

They are EXTREMELY detailed, and required a lot of my time. And I did it for the good of the people of the boards. THis concept: Called altruism....is a concept you will never understand because you are simply a pathetic little kid who thinks being an internet tough guy is cool. If we met in real life, yuou would not even dare say one word to me.

What have YOU done for the good of the board?

NOTHING.

Except bitch all day long. Just go away. You're not wanted here by me nor anybody else as you apport NOTHING worthwhile to the board.

And to just smack you senseless like the little kid you are:

-Weak and small basically mean the same thing in this context. They are synonymous.
-Events and facts, again, the same thing here.


Really? I think not. Its obvious you have little formal education.

An Event does not necessarily have to be a fact. A fact can be said to be the Heisenberg principle of Quantum Mechanics, while an event is like the christmas holidays. So nice try there.
Conversely, is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle an event? NO. Therefore, they are NOT synonyms.

I can keep owning you again and again and again if you wish. I have little patience for people who thinks its cool to try to smear MODS.

Go back to steroidology....yes, I know you're from there. You're not overly good at hiding your writing style. And you forget, I'm VERY perceptive.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

Almost forgot: please learn to take criticism. Even though a lot of people want to kiss your ass on the boards, some may still disagree with you. When this happens you don't have to revert to name calling and insults.

Are you dumb?

You just accused me of PLAGIARISM, and yiou expect me to take it well?

WTF.......Are you deluded or just plain crazy?

Seriously, you're starting to making me wonder as to if you're sane or not.

And people don't kiss my ass. I have always tried to help everybody I could, irrespective of the fact that I liked them or disliked them. So just can it.

Fonz

 

[Silent Method]

Okay, FOR THE LAST TIME.


I say that there isn't much difference between one sugar and another and that the ingestion of dextrose or any other high GI sugar within an hour or 15 minutes after a workout doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the long run in regard to how much muscle you grow.

READ THAT AGAIN so you understand it.

It DOES NOT SAY that ingesting carbs won't replenih glycogen levels.
>
>
>
The whole point of asking for references was a joke that obviously flew over your head and the collective heads of your supporters. It was in retaliation of you asking for references for everything I say. SO I SAID, "SHOW A REFERENCE THAT PROVES SOMEONE WILL GROW MORE MUSCLE BY INGESTING A HIGH GI CARB THAN SOMEONE WHO JUST EATS WHEN HE'S DAMN GOOD AND READY".

AND YOU DIDN'T. YOU COULDN'T. THEY DON'T EXIST.

So what do you do? You post a study on how carbs increase glycogen after a workout. And three cretins think you put me in my place.

And that leads us to this point. Now, what'll we do? Tell me what to do that will end this thread and I'll do it.

I must reiterate - You either didn't read my post, lack the ability to understand what was posted there, or are making the choice to ignore the truth to save face.



Perhaps I need to break some concepts into more basic, concrete ideas for you:
(Merriam-Webster)
anab·o·lism
: the constructive part of metabolism concerned especially with macromolecular synthesis
ca·tab·o·lism
: destructive metabolism involving the release of energy and resulting in the breakdown of complex materials within the organism


Follow me now, this is where you seem to be getting lost Nelson:
Anabolism = good for muscle building.
Catabolism = bad for muscle building, b a d.


If you would read, could understand, or stop choosing to ignore what I have delivered right to your very eyes in this thread, you would see the the simple truth that high glycemic carbohydrate consumed post-exercise offers any athlete seeking ANABOLISM (muscle building) in favor of catabolism (no muscle building) a distinct advantage.



What am I after from you? Whether it stems from ignorance or intent, STOP LYING TO PEOPLE.

 

[kronk]

Buy bland protin from PF for half the price and add Nestle's Quik, or if you prefer, Nestles' Quik sugar free.

Were you or were you not warned by the administration to stop your advertising for PF? There is no excuse for this, and please do not respond with "I am just recommending protein". How easy would it have been just to say, "get some bland plain protein". You had to throw in a plug for PF.

I am not trying to be an ass here, but you are being abrasive to our members and you are showing a total lack of respect for the hand that is feeding you. Please stop your advertising for this company right now. Peace

 

[Citruscide]

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!

C-ditty

 

[BigAndy69]

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!

C-ditty

If that a side effect of hydroxycut oxide?

 

[Citruscide]

If that a side effect of hydroxycut oxide?

Not familiar with this sham product "Hydroxycut Oxide" -- I only take DIhydroxycut Oxide.

C-ditty

 

[ohashi]

I only take DIhydroxycut Oxide.

Whoah, hardcore.

 

[Citruscide]

Whoah, hardcore.

It's nothing compared to the protein/fat drink Nelson drinks.

C-ditty

 

[newpump]

WHOA - I just opened this thread for the first time. This has GOT to go to the flamefest hall of fame!! Can't we all just get along . I think it is time to "agree to disagree". Now... at the risk of starting things up again... and everyone post their favorite PW drink (NO EXPLANATIONS) just post what you drink?

*Nomex suit on*

 

[C-Rock455]

Funniest thread ever, nelson lost all credibility....can't stop laughing about his picks...funniest shit I'v ever seen. His biceps must be a whopping 14 inches or so. Along with his massive 19 inch quads, we have a true guru in the body building industry.

 

[Nighthawkk]

It's nothing compared to the protein/fat drink Nelson drinks.

C-ditty

LOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OMEGA]

WHOA - I just opened this thread for the first time. This has GOT to go to the flamefest hall of fame!!
*Nomex suit on*

I have to say it went up to a whole new level towards the end
Fonz remind me to stay on your good side

ps great Avatar

 

[Dozing21]

Funniest thread ever, nelson lost all credibility....can't stop laughing about his picks...funniest shit I'v ever seen. His biceps must be a whopping 14 inches or so. Along with his massive 19 inch quads, we have a true guru in the body building industry.

Well, Fonz's arms look around 15" in his pics. Has anyone ever seen pics of his legs? I'd say Nelson is a bit bigger than Fonzie, without GH and 20+ cycles of steroids.

I find it a bit odd that people can flame Nelson as much as they like but whenever someone does the same for Fonz it's banning time.

 

[Citruscide]

Well, Fonz's arms look around 15" in his pics. Has anyone ever seen pics of his legs? I'd say Nelson is a bit bigger than Fonzie, without GH and 20+ cycles of steroids.

I find it a bit odd that people can flame Nelson as much as they like but whenever someone does the same for Fonz it's banning time.

Hi Nelson.

C-ditty

 

[Silent Method]

You're begging for references. "REFERENCES PLEASE, Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist." In all seriousness, it's this kind of statment that demonstrates your ignorance.

Very well, I'll post some references - with this challenge to you. Instead of simply picking the one or two references you disagree with, debate me head on. In your opinion, why am I wrong and what are the errors in my argument?

 

[AAP]

Why don't we ever get juicy threads like this over on the chat board?

Next time someone come get me for this stuff.

 

[guards]

This thread is AWESOME!

 

[AAP]

Hi Nelson.

Is it? Uh-oh!

 

[Citruscide]

We could send this thread over to some of the up and coming fitness boards to show them how to do it right...

Come to think of it... we could let them borrow Nelson for a week or so...

C-ditty

 

[Nelson Montana]

Is it? Uh-oh!

I wasn't going to resond this this thread (and I won't) but I skimmed through ti and saw this "insinuation" which I also was going to ignore. But I know how these things gain momentum.

I'm sure this is Citrusides idea of being playful, but I think it's pretty low and very unprofessional to suggest that I would go on this board using an alias. Of course he's trying to exploit the fact that I made ONE POST over at another board as a lark, knowing that everyone knew who it was. And for that, soe petty people are trying to suggest that's something I do all the time.

If he has any evidence of this being me, he should say so and have me banned. Period. If not, he shouldn't make accusations. (This guy is a lawyer? He should know better).

I understand this is all in an effort to discredit me and defend his pal Fonz (who has on sereval occasions gone on multiple boards using aliases and been busted). I also understand that some people resent the fact that members are started to realize that my methods work and these mods are embarassed by that since they want to be the ones thought of as the "experts". So they tell lies about me.

In regard to the posters comments on Fonz, I think anyone with eyes can see that. Fonz and I are about the same size in our pics. I'm a little bigger and he's a little more cut -- understandably sice he's half my age. The only difference is, Fonz's pics were taken after a 6 month cycle of fina and mine were taken before I ever touched a steroid.

But what's the difference? My pics are there not to impress anyone with how big I am, but to show how much progress I made. That's all that matters.

Anyway, I offer this challange. Any mod may investigate any member who you think may be me. Check the credit card number. Do whatever you need to do to prove your point. But until you do, shut the fuck up and don't be an asshole.

 

[Silent Method]

You're begging for references. "REFERENCES PLEASE, Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist." In all seriousness, it's this kind of statment that demonstrates your ignorance.

Very well, I'll post some references - with this challenge to you. Instead of simply picking the one or two references you disagree with, debate me head on. In your opinion, why am I wrong and what are the errors in my argument?

Still waiting. Ah, never mind. I know you don't have such argument, one that based on truth, because you were simply wrong. For a guy who uses the premise and label of "truth" to market himself, why do you dissmiss the truth? (That's a rhetorical question - if you cannot address your ignorance or back up your claim, your work is done here.)

 

[Fonz]

Well, Fonz's arms look around 15" in his pics. Has anyone ever seen pics of his legs? I'd say Nelson is a bit bigger than Fonzie, without GH and 20+ cycles of steroids.

I find it a bit odd that people can flame Nelson as much as they like but whenever someone does the same for Fonz it's banning time.

Bwahahahahahahahaha........

Some people just never learn.

I play soccer.....my legs are my strongest bodypart by quite some margin.

While there is probably a large portion of people on here who are stronger than me in most excercises, when it comes to legs........not very many can lift as much as I can.

And my arms 15"? Frankly, I don't have a clue as I don't measure them...but one thing is for sure....for my size they aren't small. In fact, they are too big for my frame hence why I don'ty ever train them anymore, so that my chest and shoulders can catch up to my arms.

20+ cycles? LOL Why don't you make it 50? Sounds even better.

And GH?

Thanks for making it clear to me you'e one of Nelson's little cronies.

I started GH 10 days ago. yes 10. Have never used GH in my entire life before.

I guess 10 days on GH must make me into a muscle monster...lol

Anyways, lets continue...(This is making me kaugh quite hard)

What does Nelson do?

Sits at home, walks around and trains(Not sure...but whatever here ).

What does Fonz do?

Play soccer 2-2.5hrs/day, does 5K runs 3X week for endurance in the mornings, and lifts weights 3-4X/week 45mins at a time.

Nelson only lifts weights...yet he still looks like he doesn't. If he was an athlete like me...I'd say OK...no problem. But he isn't.

If you possess any type of logic in your pea-sized brain you would realize the point I'm trying to convey.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

I wasn't going to resond this this thread (and I won't) but I skimmed through ti and saw this "insinuation" which I also was going to ignore. But I know how these things gain momentum.

I'm sure this is Citrusides idea of being playful, but I think it's pretty low and very unprofessional to suggest that I would go on this board using an alias. Of course he's trying to exploit the fact that I made ONE POST over at another board as a lark, knowing that everyone knew who it was. And for that, soe petty people are trying to suggest that's something I do all the time.

If he has any evidence of this being me, he should say so and have me banned. Period. If not, he shouldn't make accusations. (This guy is a lawyer? He should know better).

I understand this is all in an effort to discredit me and defend his pal Fonz (who has on sereval occasions gone on multiple boards using aliases and been busted). I also understand that some people resent the fact that members are started to realize that my methods work and these mods are embarassed by that since they want to be the ones thought of as the "experts". So they tell lies about me.

In regard to the posters comments on Fonz, I think anyone with eyes can see that. Fonz and I are about the same size in our pics. I'm a little bigger and he's a little more cut -- understandably sice he's half my age. The only difference is, Fonz's pics were taken after a 6 month cycle of fina and mine were taken before I ever touched a steroid.

But what's the difference? My pics are there not to impress anyone with how big I am, but to show how much progress I made. That's all that matters.

Anyway, I offer this challange. Any mod may investigate any member who you think may be me. Check the credit card number. Do whatever you need to do to prove your point. But until you do, shut the fuck up and don't be an asshole.

I'm going to tell you how it is Nelson, so that you finally comprehend just how stupid you are in my eyes and everybody elses.

#1 I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MUSCLE SIZE.

If you were an athlete, you'd understand this, but you're not. You're a pathetic 50 year old man.

#2 I TRAIN FOR ATHLETIC ABILITY NOT TOO LOOK GOOD FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Thats increased acceleratiuon speed, vertical jump, lateral quicknes, ball handling skills etc... etc..

"In regard to the posters comments on Fonz, I think anyone with eyes can see that. Fonz and I are about the same size in our pics. I'm a little bigger and he's a little more cut -- understandably sice he's half my age. The only difference is, Fonz's pics were taken after a 6 month cycle of fina and mine were taken before I ever touched a steroid."

You lift weights....thats it. I lift weights and do an amount of cardio that would give you a heart attack. I use Fina to off-set catabolism. NOT TO INCREASE MY MUSCLE SIZE YOU BABBOON.

"Of course he's trying to exploit the fact that I made ONE POST over at another board as a lark, knowing that everyone knew who it was. And for that, soe petty people are trying to suggest that's something I do all the time."

Nice...but untrue. All of bb.com knows the truth. Damage control is irrelevant now. You destroyed your credibility.

"I understand this is all in an effort to discredit me and defend his pal Fonz (who has on sereval occasions gone on multiple boards using aliases and been busted)".

Thats it Nelson......I already warned you once. You just made the mistake of making up yet another lie.

You're gone as far as I'm concerned. And don't bother coming back. I'm going to put you up for banning. You bring nothing to this board except problems.

I've had it with your continual lying, and supplement peddling.

Make another board your home, because you're not wanted here anymore.

Fonz

 

[poantrex]

Cheers fonz. Just curious, what kind of weightlifting/training split do you have? If you don't mind sharing.

Bwahahahahahahahaha........

Some people just never learn.

I play soccer.....my legs are my strongest bodypart by quite some margin.

While there is probably a large portion of people on here who are stronger than me in most excercises, when it comes to legs........not very many can lift as much as I can.

And my arms 15"? Frankly, I don't have a clue as I don't measure them...but one thing is for sure....for my size they aren't small. In fact, they are too big for my frame hence why I don'ty ever train them anymore, so that my chest and shoulders can catch up to my arms.

20+ cycles? LOL Why don't you make it 50? Sounds even better.

And GH?

Thanks for making it clear to me you'e one of Nelson's little cronies.

I started GH 10 days ago. yes 10. Have never used GH in my entire life before.

I guess 10 days on GH must make me into a muscle monster...lol

Anyways, lets continue...(This is making me kaugh quite hard)

What does Nelson do?

Sits at home, walks around and trains(Not sure...but whatever here ).

What does Fonz do?

Play soccer 2-2.5hrs/day, does 5K runs 3X week for endurance in the mornings, and lifts weights 3-4X/week 45mins at a time.

Nelson only lifts weights...yet he still looks like he doesn't. If he was an athlete like me...I'd say OK...no problem. But he isn't.

If you possess any type of logic in your pea-sized brain you would realize the point I'm trying to convey.

Fonz

 

[BigAndy69]

Fonz may be intolerant with some people but it's my experience that if you show him respect you will get respect back. Same goes with most mods and vets.

He continously provides experimental and theoretical analysis of different drugs and supplements.

Nelson, you are nowhere near Fonz build or size or conditioning, so don't flatter yourself. (It doesn't matter anyway)

 

[Fonz]

Cheers fonz. Just curious, what kind of weightlifting/training split do you have? If you don't mind sharing.

Mon5K run AM) Practice(2hrs)(PM)Train Back(PM).
Tue5K run AM) Practice(2hrs)(PM)Train Shoulders(PM).
Wed: Legs+calves No Practice.
Thurs: Train Chest(AM) Practice(2hrs)(Mid-afternoon)
Fri5K run AM) Train Chest(AM) Practice(2hrs)(Afternoon)
Sat: Practice(3hrs)(Mid-day) (Mainly tactical)
Sun: (Game Day) Rest after.

Thats a normal split. I'm doing a chest blitz at the moment, chest every day.....its a "shock" training system i adaped from an old technique used to hit lagging bodyparts(mainly arms).

I also have classes......so I have little time for much. When the season is over, it'll give a lot of more free time to concentrate on lifting weights. Its just not possible to go to 100% while doing so much cardio. It compromises your endurance. I onlylift weights to maintain my existing muscle mass during the season.

Off-season, is another matter. I can go as heavy as possible.
Which is when i actually grow the most.

At most, I can maybe put on 3-4lbs of true muscle mass per year.

Fonz

 

[syd black]

Maybe I'm wrong but you have done a total of 2 cycles,

2 weeks of primo tabs

2 weeks of 10mg of dbol, and 100mg of Deca

And people listen to your advice on drugs?

Nice one.

I hate that I am getting in on this one but you have to admit that if you havent tried the drugs you are commenting on you are just going by what others have written, you should be commenting on those 2 silly cycles that you have tried and copy and paste all of the other shit and make sure to give props to the original authors.

 

[Fonz]

Maybe I'm wrong but you have done a total of 2 cycles,

2 weeks of primo tabs

2 weeks of 10mg of dbol, and 100mg of Deca

And people listen to your advice on drugs?

Nice one.

I hate that I am getting in on this one but you have to admit that if you havent tried the drugs you are commenting on you are just going by what others have written, you should be commenting on those 2 silly cycles that you have tried and copy and paste all of the other shit and make sure to give props to the original authors.

Your post pretty much sums up this entire thread.

Fonz

 

[The Shadow]

What does Fonz do?

TELL ME YOU DIDNT JUST REFER TO YOURSELF IN THE THIRD PERSON...


LOL

 

[Nelson Montana]

I'm going to tell you how it is Nelson, so that you finally comprehend just how stupid you are in my eyes and everybody elses.

#1 I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT MUSCLE SIZE.

If you were an athlete, you'd understand this, but you're not. You're a pathetic 50 year old man.

#2 I TRAIN FOR ATHLETIC ABILITY NOT TOO LOOK GOOD FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Thats increased acceleratiuon speed, vertical jump, lateral quicknes, ball handling skills etc... etc..

"In regard to the posters comments on Fonz, I think anyone with eyes can see that. Fonz and I are about the same size in our pics. I'm a little bigger and he's a little more cut -- understandably sice he's half my age. The only difference is, Fonz's pics were taken after a 6 month cycle of fina and mine were taken before I ever touched a steroid."

You lift weights....thats it. I lift weights and do an amount of cardio that would give you a heart attack. I use Fina to off-set catabolism. NOT TO INCREASE MY MUSCLE SIZE YOU BABBOON.

"Of course he's trying to exploit the fact that I made ONE POST over at another board as a lark, knowing that everyone knew who it was. And for that, soe petty people are trying to suggest that's something I do all the time."

Nice...but untrue. All of bb.com knows the truth. Damage control is irrelevant now. You destroyed your credibility.

"I understand this is all in an effort to discredit me and defend his pal Fonz (who has on sereval occasions gone on multiple boards using aliases and been busted)".

Thats it Nelson......I already warned you once. You just made the mistake of making up yet another lie.

You're gone as far as I'm concerned. And don't bother coming back. I'm going to put you up for banning. You bring nothing to this board except problems.

I've had it with your continual lying, and supplement peddling.

Make another board your home, because you're not wanted here anymore.

Fonz

You are so full of shit it isn't funny.

You're a liar, a phony, a fool, and a plagerist. Even your signature is plagerized.

You don't know me and you don't know what I do. And as hard as it may be to believe, I'm sure 99% of the people on this board don't care about how great of an athlete you claim to be. Who gives a flying fuck?

Fonz: A legend...in his own mind.

Some day when you grow up you'll (hopefully) realize hw ridiculous you sound. Your prattle may impress the grammar school kids here, but wait until you get into the real world.

Go ahead asswipe. Ban me. Or shut the fuck up.

 

[plornive]

I'd been on Megamass 4000 for the last 3 months or so, but feel there should be something better than this.

Is Megamass 2000 good enough to pack on mass? I'm targettin some 15-20 pounds alongstwith Dbol/Equi/Deca

Any suggestion that could replace MegaMass2000 with any other brands. Help appreciated

I think we should all thank arzhan, whom in his sig is

"-----Bad to the blood,
------------Ripped to the bone.".

Without him, this thread may have never existed. Thank you arzhan.

 

[Fonz]

You are so full of shit it isn't funny.

You're a liar, a phony, a fool, and a plagerist. Even your signature is plagerized.

You don't know me and you don't know what I do. And as hard as it may be to believe, I'm sure 99% of the people on this board don't care about how great of an athlete you claim to be. Who gives a flying fuck?

Fonz: A legend...in his own mind.

Some day when you grow up you'll (hopefully) realize hw ridiculous you sound. Your prattle may impress the grammar school kids here, but wait until you get into the real world.

Go ahead asswipe. Ban me. Or shut the fuck up.

Real World?

Nelson, you're talking to a guy that has travelled all over the world, attended schools in 5 different countries, lived in 5 separate countries, while visiting counltess others.

And you're talking to me about getting into the real world?

LOL

Have you even left the US?

Probably not, from the remarkable stupidity of your posts.

"I'm sure that 99% of ther people on this board don't care about bhow great an athlete you claim to be. WHo gives a Fuck?"

haha....losing your temper Nelson? Well too bad, you tried to tarnish the wrong person.

And guess what? While 99% of the people on this board probably doesn't care about my personal life(Nor should they really...as its not exactly relevant to EF), they certainly do care about the information I post...because more often than not it tends to be accurate, and helps people develop their own personal supplemntation and AAS programs. If my information was inaccurate and completely wrong, I would certainly hope people would tell me so, so that I would learn from it.

See, I make a point of actually trying to be precise and correct in what I post regarding AAS and supplements...while you obviously don't. You have ulterior motives while I don't.

I post because I have a passion for researching and for physiological enhancement in general. I enjoy it. Its part of my life as an athlete. Always trying to find that edge that makes me a better athlete.

You on the other hand post for GREED. You are only here for the money.

Which makes you a piece of human excrement in my eyes.

Fonz

 

[BigAndy69]

Fonz you think you are so cultured, huh? How do you say asswipe in French? Huh, Smarty pants lol

 

[Nelson Montana]

Real World?

Nelson, you're talking to a guy that has travelled all over the world, attended schools in 5 different countries, lived in 5 separate countries, while visiting counltess others.

And you're talking to me about getting into the real world?

LOL

Have you even left the US?

Probably not, from the remarkable stupidity of your posts.

"I'm sure that 99% of ther people on this board don't care about bhow great an athlete you claim to be. WHo gives a Fuck?"

haha....losing your temper Nelson? Well too bad, you tried to tarnish the wrong person.

And guess what? While 99% of the people on this board probably doesn't care about my personal life(Nor should they really...as its not exactly relevant to EF), they certainly do care about the information I post...because more often than not it tends to be accurate, and helps people develop their own personal supplemntation and AAS programs. If my information was inaccurate and completely wrong, I would certainly hope people would tell me so, so that I would learn from it.

See, I make a point of actually trying to be precise and correct in what I post regarding AAS and supplements...while you obviously don't. You have ulterior motives while I don't.

I post because I have a passion for researching and for physiological enhancement in general. I enjoy it. Its part of my life as an athlete. Always trying to find that edge that makes me a better athlete.

You on the other hand post for GREED. You are only here for the money.

Which makes you a piece of human excrement in my eyes.

Fonz

Human excrement? Nice. You're a class act Fonz.

Listen blowhard, I told you to ban me or shut the fuck up. So come on hot shot. Do it. Anything is better than being subjected to your endless self-aggrandizing. It's borderline psychotic.

Please...put me out of my misery. You pathetic, bitter little man you.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Actually, referring to you as a "man" is giving you too much credit. You're a kid -- a stupid, snotty know-it-all kid who doesn't even know how stupid he is. When you say things like "I bet you never left the country" you make such an ass of yourself. (Not to mention, I live in little town called Manhattan. Not cosmpolitan enough for you Mister worldly man?) What are you 26? You act like you're 14. You set yourself up to make a jackass out of yourself.

After the dust clears, at least I'll know that I helped some people. What have you done besides convince people to take 10X's more drugs than they need? Never mind. I really don't need to hear any more of your bullshit, nor does anyone else.

 

[Fonz]

Losing your temper yet again Nelson?

Tsk Tsk.......

I'd expect more from a 50 year old......

Fonz

 

[arzhan]

Bros I actually feel guilty of a sin readin thr' all this. I'd been travellin awhile and never got a chance to look until now. Whatever it is the objective of us all is same, so why get into trash speaking and blaspheming one another when we claim ourselves to be tough inside?

Lets put it all aside, get the good things in. As someone said in this thread, 'Respect to be respected' Nothing else matters.

Thanks for all your ideas bros. I think I'ld go for the N Large II drink. I saw this add 'Add Chromium Picolinate - 200mcg/100 capsules to your order for only $4.95! Gain muscle, lose fat! '
------------Any comments on this?

 

[Fonz]

Fonz you think you are so cultured, huh? How do you say asswipe in French? Huh, Smarty pants lol

LOL

Nelson, just tried to pull the old "I know more than you and are more experienced than you because I'm 50" routine on probably the worst possible candidate for such a commetary on EF.....haha

God, I love this.

Forget banning you.

Owning you on a regular basis is much more enjoyable.

Please keep talking........ I need the amusement.

Fonz

 

[BigAndy69]

C'est regrettable Monsieur Fonz. J'aimerais bien l'ignorer, mais je crois que c'est impossible. Il vas continue a polluer les discussions.

Andy le gros a la soixante neuf

 

[Fonz]

C'est regrettable Monsieur Fonz. J'aimerais bien l'ignorer, mais je crois que c'est impossible. Il vas continue a polluer les discussions.

Andy le gros a la soixante neuf

Oui. Je suis completement d'accord avec ta response. L'unique chose qu'il fait est de polluer presque toutes les discussions dans lequelles il participe.

Fonz

 

[slobberknocker]

Nelson est un petit person avec un grand bouche.

 

[BigAndy69]

Nelson est un petit person avec un grand bouche.

Not bad, a few mistakes

person is spelled person-ne

Personne and Bouche are "feminin" therefore they require "une" not "un", and petite not petit and grande not grand.

So:

Nelson est une petite personne avec une grande bouche.

Also, guele is more appropriate here.

Nelson est une petite personne avec use grande guele.

 

[sk*]

I got one:

Sucky sucky, 1dolla!

-sk

 

[BigSexyAl]

I say BAN NELSON.... Start a new thread with a poll to decide, I bet most people will say he needs to go. Alterior motives / Greed is the real reason he posts on here and thats BULL SHIT.

We dont need someone like him to come in here and try to sell his no good, no proof, theories that end up putting money in to his pockets at the expense of new members that might buy in to his false claims.

Go get a real job old man and stop trying to con people out of their money.

 

[Nelson Montana]

LOL

Nelson, just tried to pull the old "I know more than you and are more experienced than you because I'm 50" routine on probably the worst possible candidate for such a commetary on EF.....haha

God, I love this.

Forget banning you.

Owning you on a regular basis is much more enjoyable.

Please keep talking........ I need the amusement.

Fonz

Nice about face Fonz -- more proof that whatever you say is completely meaningless.

I called your bluff and what do you do? You back down. What a wimp.

Oh, and by the way. Since you're the paragon of fairness, I guess you 'll have to call ulter, and macrophage and about 10 other poeple on the board human excrement since they too are here to profit. Talk your way out of that one jackass.

You like "owning" me? Yeah, whatever. I thought we were here to help one another but yor motives are obvious. You have to try and put down eople wh know more than you in an effort to feed your fragile ego.

 

[Silent Method]

I do think we should get back on track on this thread.



It spured a discussion on post-exercise nutrition. Nelson chose to state that the functon high GI carbs in a post-exercise model was of no advantage in regard to adaptation and muscle growth.

I gave my argument for why high GI carbs are of an advantage in this regard as well as the supporting references he asked for. To this date am an convinced he either did not read or failed to understand the argument and referneces or has chosen to ignore the truth to save face.



A challenge has been extended to Nelson Montana. Compile an argument for your position in this matter. In your words, why do you believe high GI carbohydrates offer no advantage over other carbohydrate in terms of anabolism and muscle growth. To this point you have given no such argument – only proclamation.

This is what you claim to do - expose myths and settle facts on such matters through your written word. I have given you one simple matter on which you may demonstrate yourself.

Will you put forth an argument, yes or no?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I say BAN NELSON.... Start a new thread with a poll to decide, I bet most people will say he needs to go. Alterior motives / Greed is the real reason he posts on here and thats BULL SHIT.

We dont need someone like him to come in here and try to sell his no good, no proof, theories that end up putting money in to his pockets at the expense of new members that might buy in to his false claims.

Go get a real job old man and stop trying to con people out of their money.

I THINK THIS IS A CAPITAL IDEA!

And his reasoning is so good too. Let's ban everyone who profits from Elite Fitness!

Hey, if the majority of the members don't want me here, I'll be GLAD to leave. When people with 18 posts can start dictating polict simply because it's ANTI-NELSON, well that's my cue it's time to go. So lets do it! Let's not have any more original or controversial disscussions. Let's not learn anything new. Get rid of me and go back to talking about the same 3 subjects that everyone can agree on. Then I bet there will never be any more flames.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I do think we should get back on track on this thread.



It spured a discussion on post-exercise nutrition. Nelson chose to state that the functon high GI carbs in a post-exercise model was of no advantage in regard to adaptation and muscle growth.

I gave my argument for why high GI carbs are of an advantage in this regard as well as the supporting references he asked for. To this date am an convinced he either did not read or failed to understand the argument and referneces or has chosen to ignore the truth to save face.



A challenge has been extended to Nelson Montana. Compile an argument for your position in this matter. In your words, why do you believe high GI carbohydrates offer no advantage over other carbohydrate in terms of anabolism and muscle growth. To this point you have given no such argument – only proclamation.

This is what you claim to do - expose myths and settle facts on such matters through your written word. I have given you one simple matter on which you may demonstrate yourself.

Will you put forth an argument, yes or no?

I'm in a good mood so I'll explain this to you for the fifth time.

I believe it doesn't make much difference in terms of muscle growth. MUSCLE GROWTH.

MUSCLE GROWTH MUSCLE GROWTH

You have not presently ANY references that prove otherwise. NONE. NOT ONE. ZIP. NADA. NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH.

EVERY reference you presented had to do with glycogen replenishment with which I have no disagreement.

Are you grasping this? I say it doesn't matter much. You say it does. My logic is that if you took someone who timed every post workout with a high GI drink, how much more muscle would they have at the end of one year? Probably no more than the guy who eats a regular meal. You disagree? FINE!

And because of this stupid little difference of opinion, we have all this hatred. My god, it really is disgusting.

 

[THEEGAME2544]

I say ban Nelson and all his little cronies!!!!

JUST KIDDING

But aside from all the arguing, I will say that while I don't agree with most of what Nelson says regarding steroid information and use, I find his supplement information very useful at times. I'm using the supplements that he reccommended for natural thyroid boost(NO, NOT ZIP) during my cutting cycle right now and must say that it is working exceptionally well and I'm very impressed. It's instances like this in which I find his information useful.

 

[BigSexyAl]

QUOTE

"Nice about face Fonz -- more proof that whatever you say is completely meaningless.

I called your bluff and what do you do? You back down. What a wimp"

A so called GURU wouldn't sit behind a computer and call someone a whimp, neither should a 50 year old man if thats really how old you are. If your only motives for the posts you make are to help people out then you would just walk away from all the criticism...but its not, if people expose you for the FRAUD that you are then it will hurt you in your wallet, so you lash back out...Your just in it to RIP people off with your BULL SHIT recomendations from PF.

And AF products actually do work, thats why you dont see threads like this about their products...and you see a thread like this aimed at you.

 

[gab9681]

Wow, I opened this thread to read about drinks, little did I know what I had gotten myself into. Shouldn't most of this thread be in the chat section? Anyway, I just wanted to say that I have gained knowledge from both Nelson and Fonz. They seem to be two extremes, so having them both here kind of creates a balance in the universe. We have seen them go at it numerous times on the board, and they will continue to go at it. It doesn't bother me, I like the variety they offer, but when it comes to banning, if you are going to ban one, then you should ban the other as well. I know that testoterone levels are high here, heh heh heh, but we really need to just chill out. If Fonz and Nelson can't play well together, then they need to mature enough to realize it. You both need a time out. But to ban either one would be a loss to EF.

 

[Citruscide]

I wasn't going to resond this this thread (and I won't) but I skimmed through ti and saw this "insinuation" which I also was going to ignore. But I know how these things gain momentum.

I'm sure this is Citrusides idea of being playful, but I think it's pretty low and very unprofessional to suggest that I would go on this board using an alias. Of course he's trying to exploit the fact that I made ONE POST over at another board as a lark, knowing that everyone knew who it was. And for that, soe petty people are trying to suggest that's something I do all the time.

If he has any evidence of this being me, he should say so and have me banned. Period. If not, he shouldn't make accusations. (This guy is a lawyer? He should know better).

I understand this is all in an effort to discredit me and defend his pal Fonz (who has on sereval occasions gone on multiple boards using aliases and been busted). I also understand that some people resent the fact that members are started to realize that my methods work and these mods are embarassed by that since they want to be the ones thought of as the "experts". So they tell lies about me.

In regard to the posters comments on Fonz, I think anyone with eyes can see that. Fonz and I are about the same size in our pics. I'm a little bigger and he's a little more cut -- understandably sice he's half my age. The only difference is, Fonz's pics were taken after a 6 month cycle of fina and mine were taken before I ever touched a steroid.

But what's the difference? My pics are there not to impress anyone with how big I am, but to show how much progress I made. That's all that matters.

Anyway, I offer this challange. Any mod may investigate any member who you think may be me. Check the credit card number. Do whatever you need to do to prove your point. But until you do, shut the fuck up and don't be an asshole.

Don't worry Nelson, it isn't a banable offense to have multiple handles... I think you'll be ok.

When it comes to being an expert on this stuff... I usually step back and let Huck, Fonz, Macro and others post up stuff... I've learned a great deal, through experience and readings... but these guys are the ones that taught me.

Nelson... no one here is trying to discredit you. They are all laughing at you.

C-ditty

 

[Citruscide]

Looking back, I don't see a point to this entire thread.

Muscle Growth. If you aren't growing, eat more. Workout with more intensity. Allow recovery and rest.

Boom. Problem solved.

C-ditty

 

[Nelson Montana]

Don't worry Nelson, it isn't a banable offense to have multiple handles... I think you'll be ok.

When it comes to being an expert on this stuff... I usually step back and let Huck, Fonz, Macro and others post up stuff... I've learned a great deal, through experience and readings... but these guys are the ones that taught me.

Nelson... no one here is trying to discredit you. They are all laughing at you.

C-ditty

You're a liar. You know what you're saying isn't true , because if it were you could easily prove it by checking the names on the accounts. You're making a flagrantly falsified accusation with no evidence. And you're a lawyer? That's despicable.

It's obvious that many people see my side of the story . If others laugh, fine. Fools laugh all the time at what they can't comprehend.

 

[Citruscide]

You're a liar. You know what you're saying isn't true , because if it were you could easily prove it by checking the names on the accounts. You're making a flagrantly falsified accusation with no evidence. And you're a lawyer? That's despicable.

It's obvious that many people see my side of the story . If others laugh, fine. Fools laugh all the time at what they can't comprehend.

Yeah. Names on accounts... that an IP tracing... because I can tell where each poster is originating from... it's kind of funny when all the people who support you use AOL...

C-ditty

 

[Deleted member 33117]

Nelson has pics up? I have never seen them.

 

[benevolent anarchist]

I always thought that was him on the cover of his book—or is that a fitness model?

 

[Citruscide]

www.nelsonmontana.com -- he has his own website.

C-ditty

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yeah. Names on accounts... that an IP tracing... because I can tell where each poster is originating from... it's kind of funny when all the people who support you use AOL...

C-ditty

You must not be a very good lawyer. Why would I use a multitude of people to support me? What would I gain? A litany of make believe supporters? What for? It makes no sense. And it's an idiotic accusation. I work as a writer, an actor, a musician, a producer and an arranger. I have a family. I live in New York City. Do you actually think have nothing better to do than to make up alias's and support myself?

Hey, Citrue. You did an interview with Rick Collins, right? Check out the acknowledgments on page ii of LEGAL MUSCLE. You may then want to appologize to me and to the members for the things you've said.

It's funny how none of my detractors read my books -- except Citruside, who is obviously a liar.


Body: Dont be surprised if someone posts one of my "before" pictures and claims it's me now. BTW: All the phots on my website are drug free except for the competition shot in the corner of the first page. I did a cycle of 200 mgs of deca a week and 20 mgs of d-bol for 3 weeks prior to the show. I was 42.

I think THEGAME makes a good point. I, unlike most people selling supplements, actually recommened the ingredients in the stuff I put together long before I was even asked to put together a formula. Who else can say that?

The supps I designed don't work because I sell them. I sell them because they work. And that has been proven.

 

[Citruscide]

You must not be a very good lawyer. Why would I use a multitude of people to support me? What would I gain? A litany of make believe supporters? What for? It makes no sense. And it's an idiotic accusation. I work as a writer, an actor, a musician, a producer and an arranger. I have a family. I live in New York City. Do you actually think have nothing better to do than to make up alias's and support myself?

Hey, Citrue. You did an interview with Rick Collins, right? Check out the acknowledgments on page ii of LEGAL MUSCLE. You may then want to apologize to me and to the members for the things you've said.

It's funny how none of my detractors read my books -- except Citruside, who is obviously a liar.

Nelson, I don't think I have ever said your book was bogus. I also don't think I've ever asked you anything more than to back up your statements with anything else but more statements ... Give me something to work with.. give the EF members something to work with.

You're right, I'm an attorney. A hot blooded attorney who questions many things... not only does it help clients that I have helped in the past, but it helps me see through the illusionary fog of knowledge that some people put up ... and see through it to what is really there...

I have no idea what you do with your time Nelson. I'm happy for your family and the success you are claiming. I really do wish nothing but the best for you.

But you have to realize something... This is EliteFitness.Com -- the BEST fitness site on the Internet. If you are going to make some wild claims... please, back them up with something. It's all anyone is really asking... we don't need detailed studies from various scientific institutions... but perhaps things you have learned in your own life... experiences you may have drawn upon... enlighten us... and then discuss it... in a rationale manner. People will disagree with you... they aren't necessarily fools... but perhaps people who have had their own experiences to the contrary... and that is where the arguments with facts and studies to bolster one side of the story come into play.

If I walked into court and told the judge this is the way it should be without bringing any case law to the plate with me... I'd not only get laughed out of the courtroom, but I'd most likely be in violations of various ethical duties that are attributed to all attorneys.... Now, I don't expect to hold you to my level of moral integrity... but perhaps a little bit of backing behind your claims would be somewhat refreshing.

C-ditty

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson, I don't think I have ever said your book was bogus. I also don't think I've ever asked you anything more than to back up your statements with anything else but more statements ... Give me something to work with.. give the EF members something to work with.

You're right, I'm an attorney. A hot blooded attorney who questions many things... not only does it help clients that I have helped in the past, but it helps me see through the illusionary fog of knowledge that some people put up ... and see through it to what is really there...

I have no idea what you do with your time Nelson. I'm happy for your family and the success you are claiming. I really do wish nothing but the best for you.

But you have to realize something... This is EliteFitness.Com -- the BEST fitness site on the Internet. If you are going to make some wild claims... please, back them up with something. It's all anyone is really asking... we don't need detailed studies from various scientific institutions... but perhaps things you have learned in your own life... experiences you may have drawn upon... enlighten us... and then discuss it... in a rationale manner. People will disagree with you... they aren't necessarily fools... but perhaps people who have had their own experiences to the contrary... and that is where the arguments with facts and studies to bolster one side of the story come into play.

If I walked into court and told the judge this is the way it should be without bringing any case law to the plate with me... I'd not only get laughed out of the courtroom, but I'd most likely be in violations of various ethical duties that are attributed to all attorneys.... Now, I don't expect to hold you to my level of moral integrity... but perhaps a little bit of backing behind your claims would be somewhat refreshing.

C-ditty

Your moral integrity? That's funny.

The truth of the matter, Citrueside ,is that I probably give more explanations than a most anyone else on this board. It's just that some people can't or won't acceot anything beyond a "cut and paste" study. And I don't cut and paste. And for that reason it's fashionable to attack me. But no one EVER attacks the methodology. They attack the lack of "cut and paste" studies.

So essentially, you're full of shit. You're tried to discredit me. You make false accusations. Then I'm sure you checked the acknowledgments in Ricks book and realize what a tool you've been. So now you're waffling on the issue. And you're wrong again.

Case closed.

 

[OMEGA]

Oh, and by the way. Since you're the paragon of fairness, I guess you 'll have to call ulter, and macrophage and about 10 other poeple on the board human excrement since they too are here to profit. Talk your way out of that one jackass.

Hi Nelson,
look I don't know you, so I cannot say I have had the pleaure or displeasure of conversing with you



but this above comment is massivly fucked up dude.
I am working with AF business wise, and I also have accounts with others.
hands down they are the best.
they really want to help people with products that work, and there spirit of service towards the customer is unlike any other.
look I know I am somwhat biased, since they do carry a product of mine, but I am also kinda innocent when it comes to fighting with people and other entities online, so I don't try to take sides
andget involved in online wars.

dont' feel like everyone is ganging up on you man, justy relax, and if your wrong on anything concede to it, and if others are wrong so should they.

God knows I have made mistakes, and when I finally admitted to them, it ended up increasing my credibility.

anyway just trying to share a perspective

 

[kronk]

Nelson, I do not want to get involved with you on other thread here but find a need to comment as you continue to have issues with almost all of the mods on this site.

Take a deep breath and read everything Citruscide said there on his last post. He never once got out of line in that post. He was professional and quite frankly really said what needed to be said. I agree wholeheartedly with his post, and I am sure many will. Nobody is out to get you here Nelson. We want you to succeed and we want your book to sell as it helps the site.

Now look at your response to him. It is rude, arrogant and completely misses every point that he made. Rather than calm down and maybe admit that you are wrong you seem to find it easier to lash out. Why is it that you do that? I don't understand this type of behavior coming from a grown man.

We can all make mistakes Nelson, and while I am sure that you have a tremendous amount of knowledge and a wealth of personal experiences, etc. you are lacking certain quality's that would send you to greatness. You total lack of professionalism and business ethics is what will be your downfall. The thing is that you have the power to turn this around, yet for some reason you are hell bent on acting like you do. I wish you the best Nelson, truly I do, but as a businessman I find your lack of ethics and professionalism quite unnerving.

 

[Citruscide]

Your moral integrity? That's funny.

The truth of the matter, Citrueside ,is that I probably give more explanations than a most anyone else on this board. It's just that some people can't or won't acceot anything beyond a "cut and paste" study. And I don't cut and paste. And for that reason it's fashionable to attack me. But no one EVER attacks the methodology. They attack the lack of "cut and paste" studies.

So essentially, you're full of shit. You're tried to discredit me. You make false accusations. Then I'm sure you checked the acknowledgments in Ricks book and realize what a tool you've been. So now you're waffling on the issue. And you're wrong again.

Case closed.

I'm really not sure how to respond to this. I tried to approach you in a rational manner. I think you can really contribute "positively" to the Anabolic board... I have brought this up to many mods in conversation... but everytime, you disappoint me.

I feel like I'm taking Crazy Pills Nelson. No one is asking you to post up "cut and pasted" studies. You tell your methodology, but you never explain the workings of it... or it's rationale... much like the popular hip-hop song "Right Thurr"... it makes for a whole lot of nada.

Waffling on the issue? What issue? I don't even think I've seen an issue in any of your posts... other than a fighting withdrawal by you on every subject that is brought up. It's almost like you throw something out there and like a fragmentation grenade it just flies in 1000 different directions.

I'm really at a loss here Nelson...

C-ditty

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hi Nelson,
look I don't know you, so I cannot say I have had the pleaure or displeasure of conversing with you



but this above comment is massivly fucked up dude.
I am working with AF business wise, and I also have accounts with others.
hands down they are the best.
they really want to help people with products that work, and there spirit of service towards the customer is unlike any other.
look I know I am somwhat biased, since they do carry a product of mine, but I am also kinda innocent when it comes to fighting with people and other entities online, so I don't try to take sides
andget involved in online wars.

dont' feel like everyone is ganging up on you man, justy relax, and if your wrong on anything concede to it, and if others are wrong so should they.

God knows I have made mistakes, and when I finally admitted to them, it ended up increasing my credibility.

anyway just trying to share a perspective

You missed the point big time bro. That was in response to something Fonz said. He called me greedy excrement because I profit from the site. So I was being faceitious. I have only props for the bros at AF, but apparently Fonz thinks that anyone who makes money through their time and effort is garbage.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nice stab at being contrite guys!

kronk, I believe you're sincere, just misguided. You see my posts turn into flames and assume it must be me, when in fact it's the responses to me.

Citrue is just a bully. And like most bullies, he'll provoke and provoke and provoke and then when someone strikes back, he acts all sheepish and innocent. Well, you may fool knonk, but you don't fool me. It's a smarmy tactc and I'm wise to it.

 

[Citruscide]

Citrue is just a bully. And like most bullies, he'll provoke and provoke and provoke and then when someone strikes back, he acts all sheepish and innocent. Well, you may fool knonk, but you don't fool me. It's a smarmy tactc and I'm wise to it.

Now I'm a bully? I always thought of myself as the "jokester" or the guy who makes witty comments and people go "Hey, that guy is sooooo witty"

To each their own Nelson... I'll just have to believe that we aren't going to see eye to eye on this one and move on. I have no intention of "bullying" you anymore... of course, the administration might have other ideas.

C-ditty

 

[sk*]

Why is it that 99.9% of the threads Nelson has posted on turn to flame wars?

Answer: People are stupid, listen to Nelson.

-sk

 

[BigAndy69]

Bottom line, Nelson is not stupid, he does this on purpose. Recruits the newbies so they can buy his book. He makes himself to be the underdog and it works well to some degree.

It is turning this board into shit.

Ulter and Macro spent years helping people and there knowledge has greatly advanced this board. They never hide there affiliation to AF and they never got in the way of discussions presenting bullshit statements and playing games with the members.

When a member reads a post by Ulter or Macro on Yohimburn or T-Rex, they know that Ulter and Macro are profiting from it.

When a newbie reads one of your
twisted-common-sense-everybody-is-doing-it-wrong-that's-not-what-I-said-why-are-you-attacking-me posts, he doesn't necessary understand that you are drumming up controversy to increase your book sales...and you are doing it by MISLEADING people. You know if you make statements like 'Protein cannot be absorbed without fat', you will create a shitstorm You know very well that it's bullshit. Then you try and twist it around to make it seem like they are personnaly attacking you.

I especially love the statement not to use clomid...you know very well it has nasty side effects so people are more inclined to listen to you. It's irresponsible and dangerous advice. I find it funny that a little while after those statements, you come out with a herbal supplement "Post-Cycle". Give me a break...

Bottom line, you mislead and manipulate people to make money on this board

You contribute practically nothing to anabolic discussion.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Why is it that 99.9% of the threads Nelson has posted on turn to flame wars?

Answer: People are stupid, listen to Nelson.

-sk

No, I think it's more likely because of instigating posts like this.

 

[dzuljas]

Show me one reference that proves a high gycemic drink post workout grows more muscle than not taking in a high glycemic drink.

And don't post some bullshit about carbs replenishing glycogen storage. We all knew that before you were alive. Prove to me exactly how and why it grows more muscle. I'll be waiting.

This is common knowledge in the sports nutrition and exercise physiology fields

 

[sk*]

No, I think it's more likely because of instigating posts like this.

Can't even take a compliment.

-sk

 

[Juice Authority]

Nelson,

You and I have cleared the air so to speak between us. I don't attack you and you don't attack me anymore and life is wonderful, although at times I do miss the drama between us.

Now, your comments to C-ditty are WAY out of line and at the very least you owe him a public apology.

 

[Silent Method]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Silent Method


A challenge has been extended to Nelson Montana. Compile an argument for your position in this matter. In your words, why do you believe high GI carbohydrates offer no advantage over other carbohydrate in terms of anabolism and muscle growth. To this point you have given no such argument – only proclamation.

This is what you claim to do - expose myths and settle facts on such matters through your written word. I have given you one simple matter on which you may demonstrate yourself.

Will you put forth an argument, yes or no?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm in a good mood so I'll explain this to you for the fifth time.

I believe it doesn't make much difference in terms of muscle growth. MUSCLE GROWTH.

MUSCLE GROWTH MUSCLE GROWTH

Fine. You've said this over and over again. However, you are dodging the challenge I have given you over and over again. Why can you not provide an argument for your stance and a counter argument to to mine? You are giving nothing more than proclamation.

You have not presently ANY references that prove otherwise. NONE. NOT ONE. ZIP. NADA. NOTHING. ZERO. ZILCH.

EVERY reference you presented had to do with glycogen replenishment with which I have no disagreement.

Once again I must reiterate - you either did not read what I have posted, are unable to understand it, or are chosing to ignore it to save face.

You state: "EVERY reference you presented had to do with glycogen replenishment." Go back to post #61 in this thread Nelson. You did not read it.

Are you grasping this? I say it doesn't matter much. You say it does. My logic is that if you took someone who timed every post workout with a high GI drink, how much more muscle would they have at the end of one year? Probably no more than the guy who eats a regular meal. You disagree? FINE!

This is hard to react to when it's obvious you are uninformed, whether through choice or laziness, in regard to this subject.

High GI carbohydrate has a direct advantage over lower GI carbohydrate in terms of taking an athlete from a catabolic state to an anabolic state after exercise.

Yes Nelson, I disagree that the athlete who restores his or her anabolic dirve post-exercise has no advantage over the athlete who does not in regard to muscle growth.

And because of this stupid little difference of opinion, we have all this hatred. My god, it really is disgusting.

Then keep your hate off the boards next time you have a difference of opinion with someone.

As for me, I have no problem with differing opinions. I do, however, have problems with people that present falsehoods as facts and act like jerks when they are called on it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Bg Andy:You feel I contribute nothing. I feel you contribute nothing. Great. we're even. Don't read my posts and I won't read yours.

Juice: Appologize to Citrue for what? Calling him a liar? I stand by my words. He made defaming accusations that were not true and he knew it. That makes him a liar.

Silent: You just aren't getting it. How many more times do I have to explain it? You just don't get it. (By the way, thanks to dzuljas for getting it. You wouldn't want to agrue with Silent Method about this would you? )


I re-read # 61 and NO WHERE did I see how a high GI drink after a workout grew more muscle than a meal. Perhaps you can isolate the sentance. I can't find it. It's not there.


Let it go dude. Let it go. You're just being a dick about it now. And you're trying to make me look like the bad guy because you know you'll have a couple of mods on your side.

 

[Silent Method]

Silent: You just aren't getting it. How many more times do I have to explain it? You just don't get it. (By the way, thanks to dzuljas for getting it. You wouldn't want to agrue with Silent Method about this would you? )


I re-read # 61 and NO WHERE did I see how a high GI drink after a workout grew more muscle than a meal. Perhaps you can isolate the sentance. I can't find it. It's not there.


Let it go dude. Let it go. You're just being a dick about it now. And you're trying to make me look like the bad guy because you know you'll have a couple of mods on your side.

Have it come to this? Has it come full circle? It has.


- The fact remains you have little comprehension of exercise physiology in this matter. -


Please, go purchase a dictionary. Look up some of the big words you didn't understand. Buy a physiology for dummies book. Figure out how anabolism relates to muscle growth.



I chose to argue you before a mod even touched this thread, quite simply, because you have little comprehension of exercise physiology.

Still squirming Nelson. Get over it.

Bg Andy:You feel I contribute nothing. I feel you contribute nothing. Great. we're even. Don't read my posts and I won't read yours.

The problem is, Nelson, at times you do worse than contribute nothing - you actually detract from the board with false proclamations, standing by them regardless of the truth.

 

[Fonz]

The truth of the matter, Citrueside ,is that I probably give more explanations than a most anyone else on this board. It's just that some people can't or won't acceot anything beyond a "cut and paste" study. And I don't cut and paste. And for that reason it's fashionable to attack me. But no one EVER attacks the methodology. They attack the lack of "cut and paste" studies.

Holy crap.......I am saving that quote and framing it.

Bwahahahaha@more explanations than anybody

This is just too much...you tell C-Ditty he's a shitty lawyer...when you have no clue as what a lawyer does, and then you sprout this BS.

I'll give you a little analogy regarding your obvious lack of logical arguments.

What you're doing right now, would be like me telling Stephen Hawking he's a complete idiot.

At first i thought you were just being sracstic(In a seriously weird way), but I'm beginning to believe you actually think the things you type are actually true.

Thats just scary.

If you want to see what a good post is with a good explanation of the topic being discussed with both real life evidence and journal-based evidence......read my post on cholesterol control.

Thats a good post. I provide evidence to back up my claims.

I don't simply say: "This supplement is good. End of Story. Fonz says so...so everybody shut up and take it".

Thats EXACTLY what every sengle one of your posts sounds like.

Fonz

 

[BigAndy69]

Nelson, studies are one thing and experience is another.

If you post, "Test at over 1200mg gave me more sides then gains. I think going above 1200mg is useless." That's one thing. Studies may be posted but in the end you are giving an opinion and hypothesis based on your experience.

I remember Ulter posting that Eq/anavar gives him weird joint pains. I experienced the same thing and I think it's true. Can anybody dig a study on it? Nope it doesn't exist.

You base most of your statements on your experience, 30 years in bbing, Dave Draper likes me...etc. You dismiss most studies. Yet, from your own admission you do not have more experience than a newbie when it comes to gear.

Of course you don't need to use T3 to know that it's probably not a good idea. You could say: "I think T3 use is a terrible idea and there are better alternatives'

No, instead you say something like T3 use is stupid, people who use T3 are stupid, as if you are an authority on the subject.

It took you decades to reach a level that most average weight trainers achieve in less than a year or two. That's NOT positive experience. It might have been a different time, info was scarce but hey you don't have 30 years of positive experience.

Ignore you, I wish I could. But it would be irresponsible on my part. Some of your advice is harmless, while other advice is dangerous (in terms of bodybuilding).

 

[Citruscide]

Juice: Appologize to Citrue for what? Calling him a liar? I stand by my words. He made defaming accusations that were not true and he knew it. That makes him a liar.

Well, it's probably as close to an apology as I'll get... so thank you Nelson.

C-ditty

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well, let's see. What have we accomplished here?


These are the conclusions.

I am the most unknowledable human being on the subject diet, exercise, supplements and steroids.


I never back up what I say.


I can not comprehend the simplist facts that the average message board member understands.


I'm only 190 pounds therefore I suck.


In every post I say "Because I said so!"


I give horribly irresponsible advice such as "keep cycles short" and "don't use DNP".


I have no "people" skills.


I'm an idiot, a babboon, a dummy and human excrement.


Fonz is the greatest genius to ever walk the earth.


And yet, I sell thousands of books and 99% of the people who purchase them feel they gained a lot from them. My training methods have been praised by some of the biggest and brightest people in the business. My expertise on supplements has been used by a successful supplement firm. Doctors, authors and coaches call me for advice on steroids.

How can that be?




What a colossal waste of time and energy this has been.

Serves me right for arguing with morons.

 

[poantrex]

I cannot stand people that cannot take any form of criticism whatsoever, especially when its justified- because you ARE abrasive and there have been many instances where you would not back your claims up with studies. I suppose Nelson will call me a moron or idiot now, go ahead.....i'm expecting it.

 

[Silent Method]

Well, I wouldn't say Fonz is the GREATEST genius to ever walk the earth, but you've got many good points in your list...








Also, there are people in this world that would pay to see a monkey take a shit on a stage. There are even more who would back that monkey if they got there cut of the cash. Don't flatter yourself because you have sold some of what you have written. (BTW, I am published too - does this make me more creadiblr than before?)

 

[jubei]

Well, let's see. What have we accomplished here?


These are the conclusions.

I am the most unknowledable human being on the subject diet, exercise, supplements and steroids.


I never back up what I say.


I can not comprehend the simplist facts that the average message board member understands.


I'm only 190 pounds therefore I suck.


In every post I say "Because I said so!"


I give horribly irresponsible advice such as "keep cycles short" and "don't use DNP".


I have no "people" skills.


I'm an idiot, a babboon, a dummy and human excrement.

Hey thats pretty accurate, finally a post with some truth to it. And don't worry about the refrences on this one I am certain there is a plethora of mods and vets alike that will confirm these points.

 

[BigAndy69]

I could write 20 books on bodybuilding...but AS is illegal and it would compromise other aspects of my life. I'm sure Fonz feels the same way.

Animal could write one hell of a book so could a lot of people.

 

[Fonz]

"And yet, I sell thousands of books and 99% of the people who purchase them feel they gained a lot from them. My training methods have been praised by some of the biggest and brightest people in the business. My expertise on supplements has been used by a successful supplement firm. Doctors, authors and coaches call me for advice on steroids. "

Your book is for beginners Nelson. Nothing more.

You're nowhere even close to cutting edge.

There are at least 30 people that I know off in the various boards I frequent that could write a book that would sweep yours literally of the floor.

So don't flatter yourself.

Selling a book does not equate to being intelligent. Just means you're good at marketing yourself.

Fonz

 

[AAP]

Nelson,

No one is bullying you or attacking you personally. It is just that they are in objection to a statement you made.

Personally, I am very sick of cut and paste statements. Not just yours, or his, or that person's or anyone else. I just do not like cut and paste type jobs unless they are there for supportment. I much rather prefer to hear the explanation in that person's own words. It would be very easy to just cut and paste the training routines and help I have given many people off this board as it is fairly common. But rather, I post it in my own words, not what it is, but also why I think it will work for them and why it works for me.

Take a look at where you are posting. Look at the people who read your postings. The typical person is young, early to mid 20's, with an abnormally high level of synthetic testosterone and anabolics coursing through their bloodstream. This is not exactly the type of person you can call stupid and not expect to see them get riled up over it. I am not saying you come right out and deliberately, purposefully call someone a stupid person (though I may be wrong as I don't read that many thread on the anabolic board), but I have read some postings in the past where you acknowledge that you come across as abrasive and hard at times. That much is very true. At times you really do come off as hard and a controversial know-it-all. You have a very classical Type A personality. When challenged, you tend to resort to a condescending, insulting defensive nature. You tend to take or twist everything so it becomes a personal attack on you. That can only work once or twice before everyone gets hip to your tactics. You really shouldn't do this. Rather, just understand that a "Debate" is actually a civil discussion where all sides offer statements, postings, references, etc.. to why they THINK their opinion or belief is just. When it comes to the human body, there is no science to it. Nothing is ever really "exact". What works for one may work for many, but not all. And what works for many, may not work for a few.

You have had just as many posts on here where people gave you props for your knowledge and ideas as many times as people have asked you to clarify something or doubted you. I have never read your book (sorry. I should... maybe you should send it to me and I will give an very detailed, honest unbiased objective of it ... ) But just the fact you actually HAVE a book out says a lot. I would love to get a book of my own published one day. You already have the product you can use to reach a good number of people. I am sure you have had many customers, but the potential to get more customers is fading really fast unless you realize the difference between "good" controversy and "bad" controversy. You are going to become your own worst enemy if you are not careful.

I just visited your website for the first time and I am not going to say anything bad about your physique. Unlike others who attack you based on your looks, I will say that I can honestly point out several people on this board that have used multiple cycles and still do not look like a bodybuilder. And I am not refering to Fonz. It is pretty obvious that Fonz MUST use anabolics or else his body would eat itself away with all that cardio he is going through.

You honestly have the tools to come close to reaching the national marketing level of Bill Philips in terms of "new ideas" and book sales (should you revamp yours for a more mainstream approach).

However you have to realize that you are currently destroying the very supporting foundation you should be building here.

The people here can only be what you make them to be. You can make them supporters or you can make them detractors. It is really up to you though. But sometimes, just take a minute to step away and count to ten before hitting the Submit button.

Just something to think about.

 

[AAP]

Thanks for all your ideas bros. I think I'ld go for the N Large II drink. I saw this add 'Add Chromium Picolinate - 200mcg/100 capsules to your order for only $4.95! Gain muscle, lose fat! '
------------Any comments on this?

My comment is don't go for N-Large... I tried that and absolutely HATED it. it is crap in my opinion. I specifically was disappointed with the labeling. The internet label claimed one thing, the bottle label was completely different. Do a search under my name to see the thread.

Personally, I would get some ion whey isolate in bulk and use whole milk with it. Add some ginger capsules prior to taking it like Macro suggested in the past to help absorbtion.

Other than that, red meat, red meat, red meat.!!!

When bulking, keep in mind there are still "good" calories and "bad" calories.

 

[Juice Authority]

If Nelson actually took the time to speak with Fonz over the phone he would find that Fonz is not some arrogant Mr."Know it all", but rather a very nice and helpful guy. Fonz has helped countless people over the years here for fun and for free.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson,

No one is bullying you or attacking you personally. It is just that they are in objection to a statement you made.

Personally, I am very sick of cut and paste statements. Not just yours, or his, or that person's or anyone else. I just do not like cut and paste type jobs unless they are there for supportment. I much rather prefer to hear the explanation in that person's own words. It would be very easy to just cut and paste the training routines and help I have given many people off this board as it is fairly common. But rather, I post it in my own words, not what it is, but also why I think it will work for them and why it works for me.

Take a look at where you are posting. Look at the people who read your postings. The typical person is young, early to mid 20's, with an abnormally high level of synthetic testosterone and anabolics coursing through their bloodstream. This is not exactly the type of person you can call stupid and not expect to see them get riled up over it. I am not saying you come right out and deliberately, purposefully call someone a stupid person (though I may be wrong as I don't read that many thread on the anabolic board), but I have read some postings in the past where you acknowledge that you come across as abrasive and hard at times. That much is very true. At times you really do come off as hard and a controversial know-it-all. You have a very classical Type A personality. When challenged, you tend to resort to a condescending, insulting defensive nature. You tend to take or twist everything so it becomes a personal attack on you. That can only work once or twice before everyone gets hip to your tactics. You really shouldn't do this. Rather, just understand that a "Debate" is actually a civil discussion where all sides offer statements, postings, references, etc.. to why they THINK their opinion or belief is just. When it comes to the human body, there is no science to it. Nothing is ever really "exact". What works for one may work for many, but not all. And what works for many, may not work for a few.

You have had just as many posts on here where people gave you props for your knowledge and ideas as many times as people have asked you to clarify something or doubted you. I have never read your book (sorry. I should... maybe you should send it to me and I will give an very detailed, honest unbiased objective of it ... ) But just the fact you actually HAVE a book out says a lot. I would love to get a book of my own published one day. You already have the product you can use to reach a good number of people. I am sure you have had many customers, but the potential to get more customers is fading really fast unless you realize the difference between "good" controversy and "bad" controversy. You are going to become your own worst enemy if you are not careful.

I just visited your website for the first time and I am not going to say anything bad about your physique. Unlike others who attack you based on your looks, I will say that I can honestly point out several people on this board that have used multiple cycles and still do not look like a bodybuilder. And I am not refering to Fonz. It is pretty obvious that Fonz MUST use anabolics or else his body would eat itself away with all that cardio he is going through.

You honestly have the tools to come close to reaching the national marketing level of Bill Philips in terms of "new ideas" and book sales (should you revamp yours for a more mainstream approach).

However you have to realize that you are currently destroying the very supporting foundation you should be building here.

The people here can only be what you make them to be. You can make them supporters or you can make them detractors. It is really up to you though. But sometimes, just take a minute to step away and count to ten before hitting the Submit button.

Just something to think about.

Well, I was through with tis thread, but this post was so articulate I had to respond.

I agree weth everything you say. The only contention would be with the perspective. And this is impossible for people to determine since I don't expect anyone to go through every post and analyze what transpired, so I can only give my perception.

I may make bold statements. I may even sound arrogent in doing so, But I NEVER -- NEVER attack another person, unless they have total disregard for any civility in the way they respond to me. Then, I admit, the gloves come off. I'm only human. And I'm in a precarious situation since many of my battles are against mods and most members are not going to get behind someone is at odds with the mods. There have been a few more ballsy individuals who have spoken up, and I thank them. But most will understandably sit back
and observe. And naturally, there will always be the guy who likes to get a cheap shot in when a man is down. It goes with the territory. Of course, if we all got together in person we'd probably get along great. But in this enviorment, it's all about reactions.

I believe you, like most members are using the thinking, "where there's smoke, there's fire." If most of Nelsons threads turn into flamefests, or if most threads involving Nelson are flamefests, it therefore must be Nelson's fault. But I maintain it is peoples reaction to me and the allowence -- dare I say the ENCOURAGEMENT of a couple of mods that allow it to be so. A good example is Juice's Clomid thread. All I said was that it would be great if we could discuss this without the negitivity, AND WITHOUT MAKING ANOTHER POST, there were already 4 or 5 antagonistic statements toward me. What does that tell you?

This all reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Mark Twain. He said: "If you make people think you're making them think, they'll love you. But if you REALLY make them think, they'll dispise you."

Truer words have never been spoken and this board personifies the sentiment.

Case in point.

Fonz recently cut and pasted some literature from a supplement website, and presented it as an original idea. EVERYONE LOVED IT! Why? Because they didn't have to think. It was free useful information. Who cares if it's taken from somewher else? Give me my piece.

Now, I on the other hand, am not interested in regurgitating inforation or telling people what they want to hear. My gig is to challange conventional thought and to offer efficaceous alternatives. It comes with a price. To some, this is much appreciated. But to others, they despise it. They resent it. They reject it. Why? Because it forces them to think.

This brings us to the "prove it" mentality on these boards. Everyone wants to see studies. Well, a study is just a pre-existing notion. If all we did was accept pre-existing notions we'd all be using leeches and mercury to treat diseases. We must think progressively if we are to evolve. But most people like to stay right where they are. Oh sure, they want to THINK they're progressive. But they want their progress along with comfort. Sometimes you have to shatter the old to bring on the new.

As far as my failure to "explain" things. I think that's just a low blow that has become a cliche'. I explain plenty. But when explanations becomes demands, and then dares, and then antagonism, and then personal attacks, I refuse. And suddenly all the help I've provided is meanlingless. What have you done for me lately.

This is what upsets me. Not the fact that the attacks are against me. Who cares? What's psetting to me is when people use anger and hatred to diminish another human being. No one who read this thread can honestly say that Fonz's remarks were beneath the acceptable level for even the most uncooth individual. But the thread is about me. It's my fault. Citueside made claims that he knew weren't true. He even wrote to me to say that he did so because "others" did so. That would never hold up in a court of law, and Citrue is a lawyer. But he made that decision ayway. But it's about me. So it's okay.

Look, I'm no genius, but I know that everyone and anyone in the history of the world who had a new way of looking at things has been rejected by some people. Vince Gironda was loathed by a lot of people. But he was right. Take your pick -- Socrates, Pasteur, Van Gogh, Stravinsky...all rejected. They were the ones who thought differently. They were the "trouble makers." I wonder how long they'd last on the message boards.

I'm not in the catogory of these men. I'm just a writer who loves bodybuilding and loves sharing new ideas. But I'm also a guy who grew up in the 60's in Brooklyn New York. And where I come from, you don't take shit. You stick up for yourself. Somebody pushes, you push back harder. I'm sorry if it offends anyone. But that's me.

This ordeal has been draining. And it once again has made me realize that I'm spending too much time where I'm not wanted. Time for a little distance. I have other things I can do, need to do, should do. I just love bodybuilding so much and love it when someone gets a kick out of my work. It's addicting. But there are certain realities I must face.

Thank you for hanging in there, reading this post. But I know anything that is extracted from it will be short lived and within a day or two everyone fogets and goes back to seeking easy answers and searching for other people who will confirm their current beliefs. But that's the way of the world, isnt it?

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Actually, Nelson, I think Silent Method might have posted too much at one time on this. However, if you read, in detail, his response to you in post #61, you will find much of what you requested, although the vast majority does not actually connect the dots one by one to actual growth. That being said, Silent Method has been pretty productive in his posts in this thread, and quite accomodating.

I understand what you are requesting--a chain of proven logic that shows relevance of glycogen replenishment with regard to ACTUAL muscle growth.

Fortunately I have just those references for you.

First off, a well known article:

Yaspelkis and Ivy. The effect of a carbohydrate-arginine supplement on postexercise carbohydrate metabolism. Int. J. Sports Nutri. 9:241-250, 1999.

This documents findings supporting the theory that protein and amino acids, when combined with a carbohydrate supplement can strongly stimulate insulin levels in a synergistic fashion, and as Silent Method declared, the ratio of carbohydrate to protein is extremely important to obtain this synergy. The optimal ratio should be 4:1 (four grams of carbohydrate to one gram of protein). At this ratio, the drink delivers the benefits of protein without negatively impacting the critical rehydration process.

Now, I know that you understand this and agree with it, but you do not see the relevance to actual growth. So, let's look further:

Kreider et al. Amino acid supplementation and exercise performance: An analysis of proposed ergogenic value. Sports Med. 16:190-209, 1993...

This familiar report details the evidence suggesting that insulin is a strong stimulus of protein intake by increasing amino acid transport into the muscle itself, i.e. ACTUAL GROWTH.

And lastly:

Rasmussen et al. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 88(2):386-392, 2000.

Which will show what you already knew, which is that provision of said amino acids in and of itself increases anibolism.

If you can agree to the proposition that insulin doees have a difinitive impact on the rate of muscle growth, and you can agree with the evidences of these three studies, in particular the second, then it would seem to me that this would meet the requirements of your request, namely, references showing logic supporting actual muscle growth as a result of a high glycemic index carb/protien drink after workouts.

Now, there are a few more studies I have that give pretty good support to the idea that a drink is superior to a food in this context, but to present them now would be premature, and in any event, I think you must already know about the advantages of liquid vs. solid with regard to this subject.

BTW, I posted only the references, as you requested, sans the abstracts, which are readily findable online.