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Am I doing the 5x5 wrong?
- Thread starter ellinghad
- Start date
anotherbutters
New member
Yes, half way in between. It's mechanically harder to push above you than in front of you, which is why you'll end up lifting less.
I'd be inclined (excuse the pun
) to do military press instead though. As it says elsewhere, "Supporting weight overhead is a fundemental exercise and stimulates the whole body." With an incline bench, you're not using your legs or your core as much as you're body is supported. And as BW says, do them standing and in front of you. I quite like them - they've become one of my favourite exercises!
I'd be inclined (excuse the pun
) to do military press instead though. As it says elsewhere, "Supporting weight overhead is a fundemental exercise and stimulates the whole body." With an incline bench, you're not using your legs or your core as much as you're body is supported. And as BW says, do them standing and in front of you. I quite like them - they've become one of my favourite exercises!
anotherbutters
New member
Triple just means three reps. A backoff set is where you use a lighter weight so you can do a few more reps to get a bit of volume in and encourage some hypertrophy. As an example, my Friday squats were like this (in kg):
bar x 18 ........ warmup
40 x 9 .......... warmup
60 x 5
70 x 5
77.5 x 5
87.5 x 5
100 x 3 .......... triple
77.5 x 8 ......... backoff set with same weight as 3rd set
Note the backoff isn't a drop set, i.e. you take a normal break for a minute or two in between the sets. With a drop set, you'd go straight from the triple to the lower weight without a rest.
bar x 18 ........ warmup
40 x 9 .......... warmup
60 x 5
70 x 5
77.5 x 5
87.5 x 5
100 x 3 .......... triple
77.5 x 8 ......... backoff set with same weight as 3rd set
Note the backoff isn't a drop set, i.e. you take a normal break for a minute or two in between the sets. With a drop set, you'd go straight from the triple to the lower weight without a rest.
Guinness5.0
New member
I def. think you should do standing military over incline as well.anotherbutters said:Yes, half way in between. It's mechanically harder to push above you than in front of you, which is why you'll end up lifting less.
I'd be inclined (excuse the pun
raze
New member
ellinghad said:
i know you guys say that soreness isnt related to whether or not you have done in your words "a good job". A good indication is as you say being able to lift heavier weights but you dont just walk in and go from 50kgs on bench to 100kgs. so it is a long process and one that is harder to judge if you dont record how many reps of what weight and how many times you lifted it, how long it took you to complete your sets etc. if you are using proper form and lifting HEAVY you are ripping your muscles HARDCORE, i am not a doctor but i know you shouldnt be able to rip the f*#k out of your muscles and wake up "fine and dandy" no matter how good your diet is.
If you dont have a spotter, GET 1!!! very hard and almost impossible on some exericises to lift heavy weights by yourself. Using heavy weights puts your muscles under alot more stress than using light weights for many reps. Make sure you are are doing the full excercise for eg. on bench make sure the bar almost touches your chest.....
looking at your training routine it looks a lil odd, i have read 3 diff weight training manuals from pete sisco, anthony ellis and bill myers and have tried the majority of it and worked out what worked best for me.
Personally i will be sore from a evenings workout for approx 4 days and am making nice gains.... so if i do squats on a monday theres no way i will be doing it again till the earliest of sat. if i did squats again on wed i might as well have not gone to gym on monday. soreness is a good indication that the muscle has not fully recoverd.
unless your muscles have FULLY recovered whats the point in training that muscle again. your muscle will be weak, so how can you ever expect to lift more and tear some "fresh" muscle up in order to build more.
"rest is essential, other than eating this should be your main focus - anthony ellis".
my prog basically looks like this
mon - chest, shoulders, tri's
wed - legs
fri - back and bi's
thats what i thought was odd in your program that you had 2 days recovery time. i used to train with a 2 day recovery time when i first started and made some gains but they stopped pretty quick as the heavier you start lifting, the more stress you put your body under = more recovery time.
HOPE I DIDNT BORE YOU GUYS TO DEATH!
ellinghad
New member
I understand what you're saying, but this seems to be a very popular workout and seems to have benefitted many people on this forum. Here is the link I got this workout plan from: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15
The Bill Starr Power Routine
When I was a freshman in college, Bill Starr gave me this routine to follow. It was designed for off-season football and general strength training. In the first 16 weeks I was on it, I added about 35 pounds of bodyweight, and took my total from a paltry 600 to over 950. Of course, I was also on the dorm’s prepaid meal plan, and ate like it was going out of style. Plus, I only had four classes that semester, so I spent lots of time sleeping.
Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Powercleans – 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups
Wednesday – Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups – 3 sets
Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each
I changed it because we aren't allowed to do olympic lifts on campus, and went from 4x5 on wednesday to 5x5, (but I think i'll change it back to 4x5) but other than that it is what was recommended for me. I have found the perfect pyramid progression already for bench (warmup with 135lbs, then 165, 175, 185, 195, 205) which pushes me to my last ounces of strength. The others will hopefully fall into place too as I get better form.
So is this routine a bad one? Because I thought this is what alot of people suggested was a good routine for "beginners"?
The Bill Starr Power Routine
When I was a freshman in college, Bill Starr gave me this routine to follow. It was designed for off-season football and general strength training. In the first 16 weeks I was on it, I added about 35 pounds of bodyweight, and took my total from a paltry 600 to over 950. Of course, I was also on the dorm’s prepaid meal plan, and ate like it was going out of style. Plus, I only had four classes that semester, so I spent lots of time sleeping.
Monday – Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Bench – 5 sets of 5
Powercleans – 5 sets of 5
2 sets of weighted hypers
4 sets of weighted Sit-ups
Wednesday – Light Day
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Incline Bench – 4 sets of 5
High Pulls – 4 sets of 5
Sit-ups – 3 sets
Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Bench – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, back-off
Powercleans – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Weighted Dips – 3 sets of 5-8
Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each
I changed it because we aren't allowed to do olympic lifts on campus, and went from 4x5 on wednesday to 5x5, (but I think i'll change it back to 4x5) but other than that it is what was recommended for me. I have found the perfect pyramid progression already for bench (warmup with 135lbs, then 165, 175, 185, 195, 205) which pushes me to my last ounces of strength. The others will hopefully fall into place too as I get better form.
So is this routine a bad one? Because I thought this is what alot of people suggested was a good routine for "beginners"?
I see Tallahassee, FL and given your comments about training on campus I gather you are at FSU training at Leech Center which has had a "no chaulk or olympic lifts" policy for ages. Fortunately, FSU has other facilities (and a new one) and doesn't impose those restrictions on their athletes.
http://seminoles.collegesports.com/strength/fsu-strength-facilities.html
I believe Tully gym is still open to the public and has several platforms for OL nowadays as it looks like the old equipment got sent here. The other way around this stuff is to introduce yourself to the strength coach there and express your interest in learning the lifts - maybe some 'social engineering' can open up one of those athlete only classes which you register for and will let you use their gym (not as much eye candy as Leech but wayyy better facility). I linked a picture of Roger Holler below, this is the new complex where they train the football players and athletes. The director of S&C I believe is still Jon Jost who replaced Dave Van Hallenger when he left. He spent 7 years at Nebraska so he should know his stuff and he certainly has a great facility.
EDIT - plus now that I look a lot of the coaches under him have USAW coaching certifications so probably a good route to poke around there after doing some research on the C&J and Snatch at www.usaweightlifting.org and through Google so at least you know what the lifts entail and don't come off as some whackjob. Ask them about training/programming to add muscle and you'll get a real answer.
Picture Here
As far as the program goes I can only advise you to educate yourself - that way you can quickly pick out people who know what they are talking about and those that don't. As a rule most people on BBing sites and BBing sources in general mags or whatever are massively ignorant to scary proportions - this is pretty well known and accepted by just about everyone in the S&C field or research around the world and it's pretty obvious that BBing with "it's 90% diet" quote is more about using enough drugs to get results from bad training rather than improving training (it's also about promoting the "sport" and selling supplements). It's the people who suffer for it too. Go to my temporary table of contents here http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm and in the Training Theory section read the last topic's two links. After that, spend some time reading the 'essential' marked posts in training theory and whatever else you like. Probably a good book would be www.startingstrength.com and then when it's released Practical Periodization which will be a followup. Mark Rippetoe (author of Starting Strength) is known for his phenomenal success in adding muscle to beginners, 30-40lbs in 6 months is not out of the ordinary. His programs look much closer to this one (and much of his work is based around Starr's stuff) than any BBing program - interviews with him and Glenn Pendlay are also in the TOC. The program above that you listed is not really a 'beginners' program per se, it assumes a some significant training history. In the near future I'll put something there for beginners.
http://seminoles.collegesports.com/strength/fsu-strength-facilities.html
I believe Tully gym is still open to the public and has several platforms for OL nowadays as it looks like the old equipment got sent here. The other way around this stuff is to introduce yourself to the strength coach there and express your interest in learning the lifts - maybe some 'social engineering' can open up one of those athlete only classes which you register for and will let you use their gym (not as much eye candy as Leech but wayyy better facility). I linked a picture of Roger Holler below, this is the new complex where they train the football players and athletes. The director of S&C I believe is still Jon Jost who replaced Dave Van Hallenger when he left. He spent 7 years at Nebraska so he should know his stuff and he certainly has a great facility.
EDIT - plus now that I look a lot of the coaches under him have USAW coaching certifications so probably a good route to poke around there after doing some research on the C&J and Snatch at www.usaweightlifting.org and through Google so at least you know what the lifts entail and don't come off as some whackjob. Ask them about training/programming to add muscle and you'll get a real answer.
Picture Here
As far as the program goes I can only advise you to educate yourself - that way you can quickly pick out people who know what they are talking about and those that don't. As a rule most people on BBing sites and BBing sources in general mags or whatever are massively ignorant to scary proportions - this is pretty well known and accepted by just about everyone in the S&C field or research around the world and it's pretty obvious that BBing with "it's 90% diet" quote is more about using enough drugs to get results from bad training rather than improving training (it's also about promoting the "sport" and selling supplements). It's the people who suffer for it too. Go to my temporary table of contents here http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm and in the Training Theory section read the last topic's two links. After that, spend some time reading the 'essential' marked posts in training theory and whatever else you like. Probably a good book would be www.startingstrength.com and then when it's released Practical Periodization which will be a followup. Mark Rippetoe (author of Starting Strength) is known for his phenomenal success in adding muscle to beginners, 30-40lbs in 6 months is not out of the ordinary. His programs look much closer to this one (and much of his work is based around Starr's stuff) than any BBing program - interviews with him and Glenn Pendlay are also in the TOC. The program above that you listed is not really a 'beginners' program per se, it assumes a some significant training history. In the near future I'll put something there for beginners.
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