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United States Navy KICKS ASS!! captain rescued!!
- Thread starter rnch
- Start date
gotmilk
New member
I'm sorry...I didn't realize I was supposed to spend every second of my life here so I could answer your post instantly.
Start with his order to his Secretary of State Clinton to send in a FBI team first to listen to demands. Second, when the Captain jumped overboard, not one US Military person on scene fired on the pirates. That's a change in ROE that can only come from the POTUS.
But don't get your g-string stuck in your crack Rnch...because Obama did a good job of not hindering the Commander on scene and allowing the troops to maintain standard ROE.
nahh...he just didn't think anyone would call him to prove/back up his assinine statement.
gotmilk
New member
Really? Ask SWATDOC how his unit operates under the current Rules of Engagement? Ask Chesty what his orders were during his time as a USMC sniper. MTS could tell you if he was still around. Chefbone's unit operated under this same ROE.
Better yet DT, here's probably the best post I could find on short time about this very subject.
Congratulating Obama on the rescue
My post yesterday pointed out that President Obama did not actually order a rescue attempt, he merely reaffirmed the standing authority on scene commanders had to act if lives were in imminent danger. Jonah Goldberg makes the fair point that Obama is Commander in Chief and this happened on his watch, so he should gain congratulations just as he would have been blamed had it gone poorly. I have no problem with that my beef was with the news agencies i.e. Obama cheerleaders who were spinning the event as a decisive action by the President. It wasn't. There were also reports that the President gave orders for a rescue if an opportunity presented itself, that does not appear to be true and it would have been a significant escalation from merely confirming standing orders allowing force if a death appeared imminent.
The legal standard for the use of deadly force is a legitimate fear for your life or the lives of others. That same standard is infused into all military rules of engagement (ROE) I have seen. The commander of the Bainbridge had the authority to kill the pirates at any time he felt the lives of US citizens were in imminent danger. What President Obama did was to confirm that authority. There is some question as to whether his initial orders restricted the ability of the military to intervene while the negotiations were going on. This comes from the fact that no action was taken when Phillips jumped off the lifeboat and attempted to escape. It is unknown whether there were actually restrictions placed.
The vessels in the task force were expected to be stopping piracy so their ROE would certainly have addressed the contingency of an imminent threat to US citizens and their authorization to use deadly force to prevent deaths. It is ridiculous to assume that they needed President Obama to actively affirm that before acting. Imagine a scenario where they come upon a hijacking attempt in progress and the pirates point an AK at the captain of the ship. Would we really expect them to wait and dial the phone?
Hello White House, this is Commander Smith in the Gulf of Aden can I speak to President Obama?......Yes Ma'am I realize it's 3 am....Oh hello Mrs. Obama is the President around? We have kind of an urgent situation here.....Oh, he's walking the puppy. Well could you get a message to him, we need permission to........BAKOW! Oh crap Ma'am, they shot him, never mind.
Ludicrous, I know and precisely why ROE anticipate those situations and give authority to commanders on scene. When it became a national crisis the President can review and potentially change the ROE based on what he wants to happen. If a determination is made to pursue negotiations then tighter restrictions on the local commander's authority to use deadly force could be applied. He also could have done what some reported and authorized a rescue if an opportunity presented itself. It looks like the only step he took was to allow the normal authorization for deadly force to stand, essentially doing nothing.
This is in no way reflects badly on the President. The pirates had little history of using violence against hostages and any rescue attempt is inherently difficult and dangerous. It was fortunate that the on scene commander and shooters were on the ball and on target. The reports say the pirates either fired shots on the lifeboat or appeared to be about to execute the hostage. That is certainly worth considering when thinking about negotiating in any future incidents.
gotmilk
New member
nahh...he just didn't think anyone would call him to prove/back up his assinine statement.
Nah, I just figured you had stopped having a typical rnch asswipe day.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
True, but we created the waste and didn't deal with it.
I thought that there was this principle for most Americans to be independent and sort their own things out.
This isn't sorting things out, this is passing the buck.
gotmilk
New member
Answer: Because some jackass in Washington was trying to get the Jariban District Commissioner to negotiate with the Somali elders. Even Vice Admiral Gortney stated the negotiations broke down and when they saw an AK-47 in the back of kidnapped Captain, he gave the order
Take a guess who could have issued such a request?
U.S. intelligence official tells the Associated Press Sunday that an American sea captain held hostage by Somali pirates has been freed and was safe aboard a Navy ship. Three of the pirates were killed and one was in custody, according to the official.
U.S. warships and helicopters had been stalking the lifeboat holding Capt. Richard Phillips and his four Somali captors as a Somali official and others reported earlier that negotiations for his release had broken down. …
“The negotiations between the elders and American officials have broken down. The reason is American officials wanted to arrest the pirates in Puntland and elders refused the arrest of the pirates,” said the commissioner, Abdi Aziz Aw Yusuf. He said he organized initial contacts between the elders and the Americans.
Two other Somalis, one involved in the negotiations and another in contact with the pirates, also said the talks collapsed because of the U.S. insistence that the pirates be arrested and brought to justice
jnevin
New member
LOL @ the thought of anyone on this board making those shots in those conditions. Even ex SF would be too rusty and untrained (daily regimen meaning) to have the presence of mind, aim, timing, and be able to execute that.
