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Things You Don't Need

im in :evil:

this is to your and a lot of others claims that nolva is useless. it is a less effective ai than others but for pct. it is one of the best. yes i coppied this from the net. yes it is true.

Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (2)(3). The best (rough) estimate I can give you from my research is that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (5)...and this would of course greatly aid post-cycle-recovery. What this means to us is that if you take Nolvadex after a cycle, when you are trying to raise your levels of testosterone, LH, and FSH back to normal, it will greatly aid recovery. In fact, if I were limited to just one compound to aid me in post-cycle-recovery, Nolvadex would be my choice. If you want a comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but nolvadex also significantly increased the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRL (5), after 6 weeks.

That's fine, but I think whoever wrote that is wrong. Nolva raise T 150%? I say bullshit. If that were true, Nolva would be used for HRT. MAybe if your T is 100, it may get it to 250, but time will do that anyway.

Also, if it raise T so much why do so many guys lose their sex drive while on it?
 
That's fine, but I think whoever wrote that is wrong. Nolva raise T 150%? I say bullshit. If that were true, Nolva would be used for HRT. MAybe if your T is 100, it may get it to 250, but time will do that anyway.

Also, if it raise T so much why do so many guys lose their sex drive while on it?

the loss of sex drive is a side of the drug. i guess i cannot say the numbers are to accurate when the writer even says they are not but the fact is it does do a damn good job of all of these things making it one of the best. by the way i dont know how many have these bad sides sides from nolva but what i get is an increased appetite, better sleap, great anabolic support, and no bad sides at all not to mention a smooth recovery. of course i take recovery stack with it.

also i forgot to mention on my last cycle i was running adex .5 eod and started getting gyno so i started the nolva and dropped the adex and the gyno cleared up in a few days.
 
It seems almost anti-message board to dismiss some the things people spend time discussing, but in all my years in the sport I've come to realize there are some substances that either don't have merit, aren't as good as once believed, or have been replaced with something better. So my question is; Why still use them?

Here is my list of things you do not need.

Nolvadex:

This was the brainchild of Dan Duchaine. He was thr first to realizr that if steroids convert to estrogen, use an anti estrogen! It prevented gyno in guys who were using high dosages of dbol. Very smart, But nolva isn't the greatest anti e. It lowers IGF. Destroys HDL and oblitarates libido in most guys. In short, it sucks. Even Dan admitted it didn't work all that well and there were better choices. This was in 1998. 10 years later, people still use it. And in 99% of the cases it does nothing.

Deca:

Another good idea that just doesn't pan out. By being a NOR androgen they thought they could circumvent the androgenic side effects of steroids, but the concept backfired. It is MORE suppressive than straight testosterone. It also bloats every bit as much as testosterone and the bloat comes from an increase in progesterone, not prolactin -- making dosinex useless to combat the bloat and impotence. (Though people keep trying).

Clenbuterol:

How a stimlant, which is catabolic became known as an anti catabolic is beyond me. The effects of Clen are very short lived and the sides are horrible. OTC stims are just as good at fat loss, but using stims for fat loss isn;t the best idea. Most OTC are the same but I have to give a shout to Omega's Lipoflame. It kicks ass and sicne the ingredients of most products are the same, you might as well get something that's a good price and supports the site.

Insulin:

Want to increase insulin after a workout? Drink a jug of Gatordade! Vanadyl sulfate increases insulin as well. And I'll go on the record as saying taking a BIG BLAST after each workout will work as well, if not better. And it won't kill you if you take too much.


Clomid:

Oh, how I hate this shit. I also love how people say it increases seninal volume. Pure rumor, myth and wishful thinking. It LOWERS it. It effects mood, causes depression, can impair sight, cause cancer and in some guys like myself, completely kill libido. This is a drug that was never intended for men. It is an estrogen. Chances are , if it "worked" for you, it was IN SPITE of using it, not because of it. Clomid seems to be benificial in about 20% of the people using it and disastrous in the rest. Today, with products like Alpha Sustain and POST CYCLE as well as superior anti e's like arimidex and aromasan, taking Clomid is like using a rotary phone. There's really no point.

Proviron:

I love Proviron. But UNLEASHED is so damn close to it and it's non supressive and non toxic, I really can't justify using Proviron for the anti SHBG effects.

T3:

It's nuts to use this stuff to burn fat. It will only suppress your thyroid and the 5 pounds you lose will quickly come back and you run the risk of having a sub par thyroid the rest of your life. Don't be an asshole! Use ZIP to hype the tyroid safely.

Growth Hormone:

The most overrated compound in bodybuilding. Sure, if you're a pro and need that extra 2%, you have to use it. But compare the results you'd get from $100 of GH to $100 of testosterone. No contest. GH also is far more dangerous than many are willing to accept. Bodybuilding dosages put you at the risk of many cancers. No worth it. You want GH? Squat and sleep!

Anavar:

First of all, there's nothing var dos that primo doesn't do better. Secondly, I'd stack 25 mgs a day of dbol against 50 mgs of var and the dbol wins. Sure, you get some bloat but a little DEFINITION takes care of that as long as you work up a sweat in your workouts. Besides, a little bloat increases size and strength. Var is weak, overpriced and overrated. There are better options -- mainly, almost any other oral.

Dostinex:

I'm not saying this is NEVER needed but it's need a lot less often than people think. Before you use Dos, CHECK YOUR PROLACTIN LEVEL:S. Don't assume. It has serious side effects. And Mucana Purians lowers prolactin naturally pretty well as does zinc, Vit E and B6.

HCG:

I've never been impressed with HCG but it had its place. It never really "cured" anything but it does give the HPTA a little jump start which helps in recovery. The problem is , people think it actually helps restore the HPTA, which it does not. Also, we've all heard about "Ledig sensitization" though no one can gauge it. After using HCG only once every other month for 2 years I have to say, it seems to do nothing anymore. HMG is the shit. Instead of mimicking LH, it actually increases it, getting the body to work in a more natural manner. It can be used to take a break from gear, as a recovery agent and as an adjunct to HRT. It also is the most powerful sex stimulant on the planet.


That's it bros. Add your own if you like. And although there may be some who will disagree at first, it will become evident that this list is accurate. These are obsolete compounds. It's time to move into the 21st century of anabolic enhancement. That means becoming aware of better products, better techniques, and most importantly, letting go of outdated thinking.
Having an extensive background in sales, it is notable that this thread has dual purposes; not just for debate/conversation sake, so I will take everything with a grain of salt and remain open to everything. Having only tried "Sustain", I was unimpressed with the results. And after dropping 50 on a failed PCT, I have stuck with the "outdated" products since.

This is my intake on the following list:

nolva: love it
clomid: love it
HCG: love it
clen: never got anything from it (even at over 200mcg)
insulin: never tried it, never will. just the possibility of going hypo scares the shit out of me. am also a big fan of gatorade post workout.
prov: never tried it, but always wanted to.
t3: never tried it, thyroid risk was always an issue for me too.
GH: the first area i agree 100% with
var: the second area i agree 100% with (unless you have the $$ to blow, not worth it IMO)
dost: never tried it, had it planned for the next time i ran tren but that time will never come again, :(

-things to add perhaps: anadrol? gains and sides versus dbol not worth it IMO
-i have been reading about HMG for a while and it seems like a KO to hcg, however, i also don't think it's availability (in comparison to hcg) has reached the point to where HCG should be put on this list as of yet.
-now as far as nolva and clomid go, (i might be asking for trouble) but until i see sufficient evidence of a product readily available (or as available) as the before mentioned two, I will stick by my guns. i apologize ahead of time if this steers this thread into a product promotion.....in that case, point me to a thread, nelson? thanks,

~Alc
 
OK, some of the GH comments bug me. I have yet to see a study that shows a direct link to GH as a cause of cancer. I have seen studies that lead me to believe that if there are cancer cells present in a body GH can increase their growth and multiplication, however. GH is not asbestos or cigarette smoke.

To my point, GH therapy in the AI Clinic world is contra-indicated in patients who have or have had any form of cancer.

B-
 
OK, some of the GH comments bug me. I have yet to see a study that shows a direct link to GH as a cause of cancer. I have seen studies that lead me to believe that if there are cancer cells present in a body GH can increase their growth and multiplication, however. GH is not asbestos or cigarette smoke.

To my point, GH therapy in the AI Clinic world is contra-indicated in patients who have or have had any form of cancer.

B-

That's true but it can be speculated that we all have a perpensity to develop cancer and some things aggravate it. So it's kinda 6 of one, half dozen of the other. People can smoke their whole life and never get cancer but it certainly will aggravate the potential.

Alcatraz, if you love clomid, you're a lucky dude. One of the few. It makes most people feel like shit. I'm still uncertain why that is. No one knows.

As for nolva, it's good for gyno, but if you're getting gyno while taking dex, you're using too much gear.

Sustain isn;t my product and I don;t think anyone, including needto recommends it as a sole anti e.

If anyone wants evidence that UNLEASHED and POST CYCLE work, either try it, or ask someone who has.

You know, there's no "evidence" that HCG works because it isn't a drug designed for men. But it does. So does UNLEASHED.

Nolva and clomid aer also drugs, not designed for PCT. It's all based on speculation. So why be in such a hurry to dismiss a better option?
 
Why is everyone focusing on the aspect that Nelson is trying to push his products? Sure, everyone wants to sell more products, but I dont think Nelson is desperate enough to push his products every post because hes not doing business. He is a man that stands behind his products. I have used Unleashed, Post Cycle and Big Blast and stand behind them 100%. I think some of you are too stubborn when it comes to trying new OTC PCT drugs. They provide a much safer alternative than Clomid and Nolva. If Nolva and Clomid work for you, then great, but no reason to accuse Nelson of pushing his products (this is not directed at you alcatraz). If you have something to debate, then by all means debate it, but lets not get foolish and say this thread was designed to peddle Nelson's items.
 
the loss of sex drive is a side of the drug. i guess i cannot say the numbers are to accurate when the writer even says they are not but the fact is it does do a damn good job of all of these things making it one of the best. by the way i dont know how many have these bad sides sides from nolva but what i get is an increased appetite, better sleap, great anabolic support, and no bad sides at all not to mention a smooth recovery. of course i take recovery stack with it.

also i forgot to mention on my last cycle i was running adex .5 eod and started getting gyno so i started the nolva and dropped the adex and the gyno cleared up in a few days.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...very-stack-if-your-user-post-up-608230-7.html

good shit. i just started my pct with recovery stack. i also ran dermacrine during my cycle and no shit my balls didnt shrink at all. my last cycle without dermacrine was a lower dose of test and not only did they shrink a lot but they hurt like i was kicked (just not as bad) after sex. i dont know about pp's other stuff but i will use dermacrine on every cycle and test recovery stack for every pct.

the problem there is that i have no comparison. on my first cycle i had no dermacrine and the one i just ended did so i could see the difference. but i used the recovery stack on both and i will continue to use on all . i have no problems recovering using your recovery stack and nolva together. i haven't tried anything else.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...very-stack-if-your-user-post-up-608230-8.html
 
ok. I still didn't get answer to most.
And u think insulin is no better than what's avaible????

You certainly haven't realised its effects then bro...


Insulin is so easy to manipulate naturally I really don't get why people would use it.

Even though I hear many say the risks are over-rated, really, it is a pro-BBer drug IMHO, and high levels of insulin are linked to so many diseases as of late.

I think the worst thing with insulin is that too many use it to get big and end up getting fat.
 
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