Why I don't believe in God. Those who believe, please help me understand...

[dude]

Just as with God... I see all of these children suffering... there are children who are cold and hungry... there are children who are beaten... there are children who are stolen and murdered... then for God to expect us to believe in him despite the evil... I just don't know how he can ask that of us. It seems very hypocritical. How can I view such a neglectful God as my eternal father?



Thank you all for taking the time to write. What you post does make sense to me... but I still can't understand how God... whatever he is... can expect us to believe based on a book that was written before we were born. And if we don't believe, we may not be saved, because we didn't believe in him...

Well if he is so understanding and merciful.. wouldn't he understand WHY it's hard to believe?

How can a father let his children suffer? He could stop it any time, of any day... and decides not to. [/B]

I did not write this but thought it might help.
"
Why, if there is a loving God, does He not intervene and stop the bad actions of bad men? Certainly the innocent should not have to suffer at the hands of those who are evil? Where is the justice in that?
To begin with, we need to look at what the humanist is demanding. In order to fulfill this obligation God would have to intervene all the time, and thus alter the laws of nature: so that a wooden beam became soft as grass when used as a weapon, or a knife blade became putty in the hands of an aggressor, or the bullet of the assassin disintegrated in mid-flight. It would be impossible to imagine a world like this. Life would be a mass of confusion, as there would be no longer any rules which we would be held accountable to. Like the chess game, the fact that there are rules and consequences to our actions gives the game its relevance and makes it worth playing.

In order to create persons with free will there had to be a predictable universe, which included both evil and good. Thus the possibility of evil is inherent in the very existence of freedom. Yet because of man's rebellion one of the inescapable consequences of this was suffering, whether mental or physical, whether self-inflicted or by another. While we love freedom, we tend not to like the consequences which go with it; yet we cannot have one without the other. "

Here is another tidbit. This is not necessarily aimed at you Big Brother Val.
The question constantly asked by non-Christians is:

"How can a God of love let all this suffering go on in his world? Either he doesn't exist at all or he is a vicious tyrant who enjoys seeing people in pain."
Before I attempt to answer this question, I think it helpful to turn the question around so those who are asking can see that the premise which they take is equally illogical. If we assume that God does not exist because there is evil in the world, then how are we going to explain that there is joy and happiness as well? Who are we going to blame that on? Does that then prove God's existence? Of course not. It points out the fact that suffering can not be explained so simply, and that the whole reality of suffering is much more complex than simply blaming it all on God, as so many people are prone to do.

The fact is that there is simply no slick or easy answer to the problem of suffering. It might be helpful to ask those who decry God's existence to explain why they believe there is suffering. They would be the first to admit that the blame rests on none other than ourselves, a view which ironically is close to our own. It is from this premise then that we should start the discussion. Because, while the humanists like to think they have disproved God because of the suffering we find in the world, they fail to understand that the very existence of suffering presupposes the existence of goodness and happiness as well, yet whose source, I feel, only we who believe in the existence of God can adequately explain and offer to the world. Let's then take the questions one by one."
"

 

[dude]

I don't follow any one religion..in my opinion, each religion is based off of some prophet or what-not that may or may not have been a 'master.' (Someone of the highest spiritual enlightenment....ie, Jesus, Buddah etc...)

If I were to guess, the point of all the pain we go through is to make us grow and enrich ourselves. For example, I, as I've mentioned on here a lot, have experienced a relatively severe back injury....I believe that this along with other pains has caused me to grow and mature quite a bit...you also cannot appreciate pleasure without knowing pain.

This is one thing I found about why there is pain.
"Many people ask why there must be pain in our suffering? Genesis 3:16 speaks of pain entering into the world, specifically pointing to the pain of childbirth. Before that time there was no pain. Thus pain is a result of the rebellion of man. Yet that is not all.
We need pain.

This question does not take into consideration that we really need pain. If God removed pain completely it would be disastrous for us all.

Examples: our appendix bursting, or the loss of fingers by leprosy. How would we know when our body was being damaged if there was no pain? Pain is an early warning system which tells us that something is wrong with our body.

But what do we do with a disfigured baby, or someone who is handicapped from birth or by an accident? Did they deserve this suffering?

No, of course not. But like the scenario which we discussed earlier, if we can agree that creation was perverted by the sin of Eden, and we can agree that disasters are a consequence of that sin, then we should also agree that disfigurement and being handicapped will also fall into those same categories. In an imperfect world we should expect to see these handicaps.

But are we not all handicapped to a certain degree? We all have physical problems and difficulties. I wear glasses, and am hopeless driving at night without them. Does this upset my view of reality, and should I blame God for my shortsightedness? No, because of all people He can understand my infirmities, possibly better than myself, because He has experienced it all before!

We are not alone.

Unlike all other religions, the Biblical view of God is not one of an uninvolved deity, just sitting back and watching us suffer. He came Himself to earth to suffer like His creation.

A piece called The Long Silence sums this up perfectly:

"At the end of time, billions of people were scattered on a great plain before God's throne. Most shrank back from the brilliant light before them. But some groups near the front talked heatedly - not with cringing shame but with belligerence, saying, "Can God judge us? How can He know about suffering?" snapped a pert young brunette. She ripped open a sleeve to reveal a tattooed number from a Nazi concentration camp. "We endured terror, beating, torture, and death!" In another group a Negro boy lowered his collar. "What about this?" he demanded, showing an ugly rope burn. "Lynched for no crime but being black!" In another crowd, a pregnant school girl with sullen eyes said, "Why should I suffer? It wasn't my fault." Far out across the plain were hundreds of such groups. Each had a complaint against God for the evil and suffering He permitted in His world. How lucky God was to live in heaven where all was sweetness and light, where there was no weeping or fear, no hunger or hatred. What did God know of all that men had been forced to endure in this world? For God leads a pretty sheltered life, they said.

"So each of these groups sent forth their leader, chosen because he had suffered the most. A Jew, a Negro, a person from Hiroshima, a horribly deformed arthritic, a thalidomide child. In the centre of the plain they consulted with each other. At last they were ready to present their case. It was rather clever. Before God could be qualified to be their judge, He must endure what they had endured. Their verdict was that God should be sentenced to live on earth - as a man! Let him be born a Jew. Let the legitimacy of His birth be doubted. Give Him a work so difficult that even His family will think Him out of His mind when He tries to do it. Let Him be betrayed by His closest friends. Let Him face false charges, be tried by a prejudiced jury and convicted by a cowardly judge. Let Him be tortured. At last, let Him see what it means to be terribly alone. Then let Him die. Let Him die so that there can be no doubt He died. Let there be a whole host of witnesses to verify it. As each leader announced his portion of the sentence, loud murmurs of approval went up from the throng of people assembled. When the last had finished pronouncing sentence there was a long silence. No one uttered another word. No one moved. For suddenly all knew that God had already served His sentence."

Indeed God has already felt our pain and He therefore understands us. He has been where we are, and this provides great comfort for those who are going through pain now. "

 

[dude]

I believe they say that you'll appreciate Heaven so much, because you go through hell on Earth. There is so much pain here, and so much shit to go through... that Heaven could simply be a nice town in Nebraska, and it'd seem wonderful.

But what about those people born into wealthy families, who never have real problems in life, live happily, then die? Was that their "TEST"? If so... how will they appreciate Heaven?

And what about the 3 month old infant that starves to death because the parents decide not to feed him anymore? Does he appreciate Heaven? His only trial was hunger... and he didn't truly understand it.

And the point you made earlier about going on a killing spree as doing God's work.. I totally agree on. How can it be said that those who are punished were the worst ones? So an infant who is beaten to death, or starved to death, or freezes to death in a fucking dumpster deserved it because of how wicked they were, or were going to be?

I call a big "Fuck that" on that topic.

How can got be so righteous? So merciful? So loving?

There are children who are dieing.

And God does nothing.

If I was to go avenge the children, and wipe these fuckers off the face of the Earth, I'd go to hell for doing a job that God doesn't have the balls to follow up on...

What a truly loving, merciful father he is.

If you think about it, they would be better off going to Heaven now than they would at a later age.

 

[HumorMe]

WOW dude.....this is some pretty powerful stuff! I don't know where you are getting it from but this is very interesting!
One thing I wanted to point out to Val is that while we are on earth, we are not a part of God's Kingdom. On earth there is pain and suffering as dude has pointed out in his posts. God makes a promise to us that if we worship Him and praise Him with all our glory he will provide us a place in Heaven where there is no pain and suffering, no handicaps, no fighting, no blah, blah, blah. (I think you get the point on that!). I personally believe that when God made man he didn't have in mind the mess we live in today. It was only after Adam and Eve forsaked God by eating from the Tree of Life that He condemned man to a life of pain and suffering. I'm not going to rehash what dude has posted because I think he has done an outstanding job in providing information and in some instances answers to some of your questions about believing in God and why there is suffering. I know at times beliefs get questioned. The one thing I want you to know is and what I personally believe is that God is unapproachable. By this, I mean, his ways and how he answers prayers should never be questioned. I'm 40 years old and since I was mature enough the understand how great God is, I have never questioned God about bad things that have happened in my life. Bad things in my life have only made my Faith stronger in God. If people want to call me a sheep, I personally do not care. Anyway, I'm going to let this rest and read some. Hey Val and dude.....when I get my karma working(it's messed up and I'm waiting on George to fix it) I'm going to lay it on you! Thanks guys! Later!

 

[REALJUICE]

Big Brother Val:

DUDE, we can't convince you to belive in God: we're no qualified preacher/priest. Worship whoever you want. Hey, maybe the 98% of humanity is wrong and you're probably right.

If you feel you're right, make an altar with your stupid picture on it and have your kids pray to you (The-stupid-mighty-know-it-all)

 

[Frackal]

Realjuice,

Go to hell.

Fucking Moron.

 

[Bigsatan13]

Val, you answered your own questions and it's fine to feel that way. I questioned all the Catholic bullshit growing up and came to realize that it was all created to control the masses. You control your destiny and are responsable for your own actions.

 

[casavant]

Big Brother Val:

DUDE, we can't convince you to belive in God: we're no qualified preacher/priest. Worship whoever you want. Hey, maybe the 98% of humanity is wrong and you're probably right.

If you feel you're right, make an altar with your stupid picture on it and have your kids pray to you (The-stupid-mighty-know-it-all)

What a fine Christian comment. Why don't you print that one off and show it to your pastor? Basically, what I'm trying to say is, "Fuck off cocksucker." See ya, bitch.

 

[uNOwho]

REALJUICE:

I know this has been said before, but if you decide to live your life in the infamy of your own idiotic actions and comment, please refrain from making such ignorant and un-educated answers. I don't care what you personally believe in, but don't throw your own petty bullshit thoughts on a thread that is one of answering difficult questions of time. Save yourself the dignity and throw your keyboard out the window.

~p~

 

[HumorMe]

Hey uNOwho.... I meant to include you in my post above about the good info! Thanks! I'm having trouble giving people karma so when it starts working I'll hit you back! Thanks again!