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Why I don't believe in God. Those who believe, please help me understand...
- Thread starter Big Brother Val
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lil k
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Well I must say that this is far and away one of the better posts that I have read...lots of good opinions (becuase thats just what they are) and great reading. While I agree and disagree with a lot of points here, none of them reflect what I believe....have you ever read any of Zecharia Sitchin's books....anyway.....i was going to do a long long post and talk about this, but I though maybe we could use a little humor to lighten things up, so here is some George Carlin Quotes on religion and on some of it...i couldnt agree more:
George Carlin On Religion
"Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!"
-- George Carlin
"I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, This is a wonderful fairy tale they have going here, but it's not for me."
-- George Carlin, New York Times, 20 Aug 1995, pg. 17.
"If churches want to play the game of politics, let them pay admission like everyone else."
-- George Carlin
"This is a lttle prayer dedicated to the separation of church and state. I guess if they are going to force those kids to pray in schools they might as well have a nice prayer like this: Our Father who art in heaven, and to the republic for which it stands, thy kingdom come, one nation indivisible as in heaven, give us this day as we forgive those who so proudly we hail. Crown thy good into temptation but deliver us from the twilight's last gleaming. Amen and Awomen."
-- George Carlin, on "Saturday Night Live"
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
-- George Carlin
"The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music."
-- George Carlin, "Brain Droppings"
"I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to 'God' are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate."
-- George Carlin
"I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood".
-- George Carlin
George Carlin On Religion
"Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!"
-- George Carlin
"I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, This is a wonderful fairy tale they have going here, but it's not for me."
-- George Carlin, New York Times, 20 Aug 1995, pg. 17.
"If churches want to play the game of politics, let them pay admission like everyone else."
-- George Carlin
"This is a lttle prayer dedicated to the separation of church and state. I guess if they are going to force those kids to pray in schools they might as well have a nice prayer like this: Our Father who art in heaven, and to the republic for which it stands, thy kingdom come, one nation indivisible as in heaven, give us this day as we forgive those who so proudly we hail. Crown thy good into temptation but deliver us from the twilight's last gleaming. Amen and Awomen."
-- George Carlin, on "Saturday Night Live"
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
-- George Carlin
"The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music."
-- George Carlin, "Brain Droppings"
"I've begun worshipping the sun for a number of reasons. First of all, unlike some other gods I could mention, I can see the sun. It's there for me every day. And the things it brings me are quite apparent all the time: heat, light, food, a lovely day. There's no mystery, no one asks for money, I don't have to dress up, and there's no boring pageantry. And interestingly enough, I have found that the prayers I offer to the sun and the prayers I formerly offered to 'God' are all answered at about the same 50-percent rate."
-- George Carlin
"I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood".
-- George Carlin
Big Brother Val
New member
kronkette said:
George Carlin rocks. Thanks for the break in seriousness. However.. I would like to hear your opinion on the serious side... if you have the time.
I am literally lost for word's. I have so many in my head that want to come out, yet I don't know how to put them. I can try my best to rationalize why I'm Catholic and why you should have faith in God, but that will do no good. You aren't looking for religious advice. I could try and rationalize why the people in the inner city and ghetto have a more difficult life and why you shouldn't weap and worry for them, but that will do no good because I will inevitably be viewed as a bigot. There are so many angles to which I can take to try and sway your viewpoint, yet none will do good because they all revolve around a centralized point. Religion. You are trying to understand God, a god, any god because you have none in your life and don't have the capacity to understand where the hate comes from. If God intended for this life to be pain free, then Adam and Eve would never have been a story. Their struggles of finding who they were in a world devoid of any life but the one that could truly sway them from choosing good and evil. That is a metaphor for life. In the world today who can you really rely upon to get you through the day. Who can you turn to when things are down, and your luck has run out? Where in this life is there a sanctuary from the pain and suffering, a place where all doubts subside and you just know that everything will work out. Much like Adam and Eve had to discover if the apple, the forbidden fruit, was really all it was cracked up to be. When Eve took a bite of the fruit what happened? God cast them from his Holy Land - Heaven - and forced them to live a life of mortal luxury and mortal sin. No one in this world is free from sin, not even the Pope. I do not speak badly of the Pope for he is my iconic leader on this Earth. However, the reference always goes back to Adam and Eve and how they broke rule #1. For their curiosity the rest of the world must live in infamy and try to relinquish their sins.
For what? There are people who feel that God is nothing more than a psychotic dillusion, so they go about their life and have nothing to fall back upon when despair knock's them upside the head. All those little children that you speak of, do you think that their lives would be full of joy and praise if they grew up in an environment condusive to extreme violence and abuse. Would you subject them to that kind of life? Would YOU want your kids to grow up in that environment? Believe me when I say that NO kid should ever have to live their life fearing the father, mother, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, or any blood relative. I can relate to your feeling of disgust when you think of your children and how you would never let that happen to them. But ask yourself this.
Is God really the one to blame for people CHOOSING to live their lives as they do? God is not a giver and taker. I believe that God present's us different choices for our lives and we are the one's responsible for choosing the path. Robert Frost wrote a poem entitled "The Road Less Taken" For those not familiar with it, I'm going to post it. I apologize for the length of this, if it is too large have a Mod PM me and i'll ammend it.
That poem is one of the most incredible poems ever written. I feel it sums up life and it's choices quite elegantly and with such ease. He is talking about making a choice and thinking of his latter reflection in life and how will he view his decision. There is no such road in life that leads us to perfect pavement. There will always be bumps in the road. For some it is more like trying to skateboard through the Rockies with three broken wheels and no shoes. For other's it's like riding in a plane with a little turbulence at times.
For me to try and justify someone's actions in hope that I may persuade you to understand the relevance of God. That, sad to say, I cannot do. The only thing that I can do is present you with as much evidence of God's grace and power and have you choose the path. All decision's in this life are not for you or I to question. If a child die's, I surely do feel bad and wish they had the chance to live but I do not question the mortality and futility of God's effort. The subtlety at which He works is quite frustrating at times. Yet, like all things. In order to see the good you must first see the good in yourself.
~p~
For what? There are people who feel that God is nothing more than a psychotic dillusion, so they go about their life and have nothing to fall back upon when despair knock's them upside the head. All those little children that you speak of, do you think that their lives would be full of joy and praise if they grew up in an environment condusive to extreme violence and abuse. Would you subject them to that kind of life? Would YOU want your kids to grow up in that environment? Believe me when I say that NO kid should ever have to live their life fearing the father, mother, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, or any blood relative. I can relate to your feeling of disgust when you think of your children and how you would never let that happen to them. But ask yourself this.
Is God really the one to blame for people CHOOSING to live their lives as they do? God is not a giver and taker. I believe that God present's us different choices for our lives and we are the one's responsible for choosing the path. Robert Frost wrote a poem entitled "The Road Less Taken" For those not familiar with it, I'm going to post it. I apologize for the length of this, if it is too large have a Mod PM me and i'll ammend it.
That poem is one of the most incredible poems ever written. I feel it sums up life and it's choices quite elegantly and with such ease. He is talking about making a choice and thinking of his latter reflection in life and how will he view his decision. There is no such road in life that leads us to perfect pavement. There will always be bumps in the road. For some it is more like trying to skateboard through the Rockies with three broken wheels and no shoes. For other's it's like riding in a plane with a little turbulence at times.
For me to try and justify someone's actions in hope that I may persuade you to understand the relevance of God. That, sad to say, I cannot do. The only thing that I can do is present you with as much evidence of God's grace and power and have you choose the path. All decision's in this life are not for you or I to question. If a child die's, I surely do feel bad and wish they had the chance to live but I do not question the mortality and futility of God's effort. The subtlety at which He works is quite frustrating at times. Yet, like all things. In order to see the good you must first see the good in yourself.
~p~
Take yourself out of society and let your mind forget what you see day to day---The killing---babies dieing etc---Before there was a society early in the human's existence, there was also killing--raping etc---survival of the fittest---nothing has changed except what the masses say are exceptable. Not God---If god does exist his plan had nothing to do with what "a particalar society thinks is right or wrong. Parts of africa its ok to marry at 10 year old girl but here he would be jailed and most that do "believe"would think he is going to hell. It can't happen
I think we may all be on a journey that we all end up in the same place at the end. It just may take some people longer to reach it. God or whoever gives us tools to get there. a car accident-cancer-babies being beaten. These are all tools. Our society "the Masses" put these in a certain catagory. Fact is most don't except death. Even priest and such can see a kid die of lets say drugs and will use words like what a waste----Its not a waste---the kid was used as a tool to teach others. He may have been someone who already made it to the end but wanted to be a teacher. Just one way to look at it. One thing is for sure thats going to happen to everyone. They are going to die from something----and almost everybody dies a "harsh" death---Thats because we don't have control of our pain.(a tool) I think when one has total control of all senses in the body and will understand why they are there-then one will have the ability to reach the end so to speak. But to understand all senses, people may have to go through what we call hell to get there.
I think we may all be on a journey that we all end up in the same place at the end. It just may take some people longer to reach it. God or whoever gives us tools to get there. a car accident-cancer-babies being beaten. These are all tools. Our society "the Masses" put these in a certain catagory. Fact is most don't except death. Even priest and such can see a kid die of lets say drugs and will use words like what a waste----Its not a waste---the kid was used as a tool to teach others. He may have been someone who already made it to the end but wanted to be a teacher. Just one way to look at it. One thing is for sure thats going to happen to everyone. They are going to die from something----and almost everybody dies a "harsh" death---Thats because we don't have control of our pain.(a tool) I think when one has total control of all senses in the body and will understand why they are there-then one will have the ability to reach the end so to speak. But to understand all senses, people may have to go through what we call hell to get there.
I FOUND YOUR ANSWER!!!! READ ON TO SEE!!!
A Sunday School teacher of pre-schoolers was concerned that his students might be a little confused about Jesus Christ because of the Christmas season emphasis on his birth. He wanted to make sure they understood that the birth of Jesus occurred a long time ago, that he grew up, etc. So he asked his class, "Where is Jesus today?"
Steven raised his hand and said, "He's in Heaven."
Mary was called on and answered, "He's in my heart." Little Johnny, waving his hand furiously, blurted out, "I know! I know! He's in our bathroom!"
The whole class got very quiet, looked at the teacher, and waited for a response. The teacher was completely at a loss for a few very long seconds. He finally gathered his wits and asked Little Johnny how he knew this.
And Little Johnny said, "Well... every morning, my father gets up, bangs on the bathroom door, and yells 'Jesus Christ, are you still in there?'!"
~p~
A Sunday School teacher of pre-schoolers was concerned that his students might be a little confused about Jesus Christ because of the Christmas season emphasis on his birth. He wanted to make sure they understood that the birth of Jesus occurred a long time ago, that he grew up, etc. So he asked his class, "Where is Jesus today?"
Steven raised his hand and said, "He's in Heaven."
Mary was called on and answered, "He's in my heart." Little Johnny, waving his hand furiously, blurted out, "I know! I know! He's in our bathroom!"
The whole class got very quiet, looked at the teacher, and waited for a response. The teacher was completely at a loss for a few very long seconds. He finally gathered his wits and asked Little Johnny how he knew this.
And Little Johnny said, "Well... every morning, my father gets up, bangs on the bathroom door, and yells 'Jesus Christ, are you still in there?'!"
~p~
Burning Inside: It was planned that way. Jesus prayed that if there was any other way then let it be done that way but this was the only way. Jesus was not questioning God; he was quoting the first line of Psalm 22--a deep expression of the anguish he felt when he took on the sins of the world, which caused him to be separated from his Father. This was what Jesus dreaded as he prayed to God in the garden to take the cup from him(26:39). The physcial agony was horrible, but even worse was the period of spiritual separation from God. Jesus suffered this double death so that we would never have to experience eternal separation from God.
