Top Chinese General warns U.S. over attack.

[Gambino]

but Guderian's 2nd Panzergruppe advanced nearly as far and just as quickly at the opening of Barbarossa
with 40s era equipment,in diffcult terrain and against considerable opposition

and then were utterly defeated by the russianans...seems to disprove the point you are trying to make about german superoity

 

[tiger88]

and then were utterly defeated by the russianans...seems to disprove the point you are trying to make about german superoity

not to get off topic but i agree with hilters invasion of russia in 1941 (summer)

1. needed resources
2. taking over crete/greece did longer then they thought but still victories
3. winter of 1941 was one of the worst winters off all time(bad luck) got screwed
4. the war going well eveyhwere else (from the north atlantic to North Africa)
5. russia was unprepared and also there mass of troops werent on the boader but ways back far after germany and russia split poland in 1939(easy first gains)
6. mobilzied army in the world (dont even compare to napolean since he had horses compared to hitlers panzers) but the t34> early panzer models 1-3
7. russia got beat up in finland in 1939-1940 winter time and gave off the idea they were weak and would break

 

[GoldenDelicious]

LOL, Im just generating discussions and putting forth positions. Calling the American people ignorant deserves a smack down. If people want to do that then Im going to lay it down.

american people are, in general, ignorant. that is an unfortunate product of a tame domestic corporate media. i can assure you, the rest of the world sees a vastly different picture of the war in iraq, and in fact many international issues, than do the americans on their home ground.

Just like you are wrong about about losing a ground war with China. You are making the same mistake that countries have made throughout history, thinking in terms of the last wars fought.

really? just like your citizens looked at the last war they fought? gulf war 1?

if you guys are so smart, lucius, why are you getting your arses handed to you in iraq? you certainly arent winning, what with a growing resistance (notice i did not use the word 'insurgency', which i believe to be innaccurate) and you guys bleeding at...2 or so lives a day? with a dissapearing 'coalition of the willing'? with mounting international condemnation? with crumbling treaties and embargoes, as per russian/chinese/iranian arms sales contra to american wishes?

your army was not built to counter assymetric warfare. not conventional army is. its why youre losing.

Thats what the military strategists have already thought of, people that spend their lives, people alot smarter than you have drawn up plans on how to win against china, its all planned out and alot of it is classified but alot of it is also on the internet if you spent the time to read and google like I have.

you sound a tad condescending, lucius. you 'googled' it? really? you mean, like, google.com. you mean, THE google.com. ? the one that i can tap in anytime i want? please. if its classified, then its not on google, meaning, you havnt seen it. and if it is on google, then i can see it whenever i want, meaning you cant preach to me. so dont

all youve said, at best, for you, is that niether of us have any idea what would really happen if war came...but if logic prevailed, given the US disaster in iraq, against an enemy 20 million or so strong, in open terrain, after a decade of sanctions, as opposed to another enemy 1300 million strong, unweakened by sanctions, with mountinous terrain and a shocking willingness to give up its citizens lives....i dont know. id say youre in a bit of trouble

Ive studied these issues for many many years. B/c you fail to be well informed and chooose not to understand this stuff I enjoy tweaking your nose when you attack the US, why do you do that? I think its just fundamentally that you dislike the US, Bush and the American way of life, democracy and free market systems, that is the core statement behind your posts, you despise corporations yet dont understand what efficiency is and why they come into being, its about learning economic theory and business models, you just dont understand the systems, I do.

the american way of life? what issue could i possibly have against the american way of life? what do i give a toss? come on. and bush? bush offends me because he is a lying, conniving, stupid bastard. im insulted. at least let me be deceived by someone likeable, and clever. like clinton, for example. i liked that guy.

i understand economics rather well, by the way. its one of those subjects God gave me. i misse most of my eco classes, and still wound up with the second highest mark in the school, and probably top 5 in the state, so really, honestly, i get whats going on. i just dont like the way US corporations in particular use their market and political power. the iraq war is, indirectly, an example of that.

How can you debate someone that makes blanket statements that all corporations are evil? To see complex issues like that in black and white means you lack the ability to understand the good as well as bad and things that can be improved.

firstly, i never said corporations were evil. soulless maybe, but never evil. therefore, i have no idea how you could argue against such a person, since i have not encounteres them before. do you need advice? ill think about it for you, if you like. pm me

Its simple, you offer criticism yet offer no solutions to the issues. If you want to put the US down then offer a solution as well. Its easy to be an armchair general or an armchair president and complain incessantly but offering solutions is beyond your intellect, thats why you dont do it.

no, i dont do it because i cant be arsed. its hardly beyond my intellect. really.

You cant stop suicide bombers, is that your argument, that we are losing b/c some people decide to kill themselves?

no, that wasnt my point. but, given that youve been so condescending throughout your post, i could step forward and offer my argument, though i could sit here and let you flounder in your own rhetoric...

...my point is that the 'superpower' that is the US, of which we speak, is in conventional terms. trying to match a conventional military with an assymetric enemy just doesnt work, and is why the US is falling on its arse in iraq....because while your tanks and trucks are better than anyones anti tank and anti plane millies etc etc....theyre still beatable by people willing to lose thier lives in doing so.

the US makes equipment etc etc based on the premise that soldiers want to survive. the jihadists willingness to die exploits that vulnerability, because at the end of hte day, with all their trillions of dollars, the US military cant develop a bomb as efficint, or cheap, or accurate, or devastating, as a suicide bomber and 50 bucks worth of explosive wrapped in ball bearings.

We didnt lose the Iraq war, were not going to lose or leave b/c you just cant realistically do that and history will record this as reshaping the middle east and lead to democracy in the region. Thats what a neocon foreign policy is about. But I dont want to go to far with neocon b/c none of you understand the definition of it which Ive explained several times. Neocon does not mean Christian Conservative. Its a move from the intellectual left into having a moral foreign policy such as why we had the Berlin airlift, why the US does things. Its all about knowing your history and terminology my man.

uhuh. soooooo then, was it useful for the US to spend a couple of trillion bucks in ousting saddam, only to have iraq fairly well amalgamate with iran?

the word neoconservative has changed meanings a few times anyway, lucius.

I have faith in the US govt. b/c I dont want to live my life as a pessimist. These people, and Ive studied their positions and statements are PHds, experts and all of their opinions and analyses of the situations. I watch and learn from them and I can tell you they are smarter than you or I and are top in their fields of coutries, teaching at universities, working for the govt. being called to talk on political talk shows. I form my opinions based on what the experts discuss, you should try it.

it isnt about wanting to be a pessimist, its about seeing life as it is. the US has been acting very shittily lately. me saying so doesnt make me a pessimist...its just a reflection of what i see.

also, i dont trust 'experts' on television. some things they say are correct, but in general, logic would indicate that i take everything i see on tv with a grain of salt.

also, you may think that these people are smarter than you, but as to whether theyre smarter than me, well...first, you sont know me well enough to make that call, and secondly, ill only agree with you if i spend a couple of moths chatting to the person and they somehow truly floor me with their intellect. until then, those mofos are just another bunch of guys

I choose to have faith just like you choose not to have faith. I walk around secure and confident and enlightened on the issues while you choose to walk around with a hole in you. You could fill that hole by reading and learning if you wanted to but we you choose to be a pessimist and a cynic. To each their own, Im bored and in the mood to bug you and everyone else that puts down the US, I can be a mirror and reflect that right back on you. Dont hate the mirror, you say it and I reflect it back, not necessarily with my own beliefs or arguments, I can argue all sides to these issues and many times in the last fifteen years b/c Ive studied these issues.

brotheabill, im tired. its 7am. ive been out drinking, partying, and doing my thang, and im devastatingly tired. ill see yo uin the morning, and ill tell you about some girls. maybe

gnite

 

[[email protected]]

Dont take our kindness for weakness.
were not losing war in Iraq.We definatly are feeling them allot more than we should.US death toll is allot higher than it should be.But the only reason that it is, is because we havent said fuck the ungreatfull basterds and labled everyone as a target....Yet.

 

[redguru]

american people are, in general, ignorant. that is an unfortunate product of a tame domestic corporate media. i can assure you, the rest of the world sees a vastly different picture of the war in iraq, and in fact many international issues, than do the americans on their home ground.

You and your generalizations. I suppose you think English can't cook and have bad teeth, Frenchmen are stuck up, Germans are all engineers, and Greek guys smell bad and take it up the ass (well, I guess you do know the last one by personal experience).

if you guys are so smart, lucius, why are you getting your arses handed to you in iraq? you certainly arent winning, what with a growing resistance (notice i did not use the word 'insurgency', which i believe to be innaccurate) and you guys bleeding at...2 or so lives a day? with a dissapearing 'coalition of the willing'? with mounting international condemnation? with crumbling treaties and embargoes, as per russian/chinese/iranian arms sales contra to american wishes?

The average death rate for US Soldiers in Iraq is cyclical, and is actually lower than the daily deathrate per 100,000 soldiers as compiled by the pentagon over the last 20 years.
PDF Chart Of Active Duty Deaths from 1980-2004

The average length of post-war insurgency during the 20th Century was nine years, not two. Why should we care about mounting international condemnations from the French? Lets not go into French military history, it isn't pretty.

Battle is a flowing situation, you don't give up because someone throws an unknown tactic at you. You adapt to the tactics. The insurgency is in decline, if you notice the insurgency is mostly targeting the indigenous people not the troops. Also, there is an intense rivalry between the Ba'athists and the foreign insurgents that has touched off into an insurgent civil war.

 

[75th]

american people are, in general, ignorant. that is an unfortunate product of a tame domestic corporate media. i can assure you, the rest of the world sees a vastly different picture of the war in iraq, and in fact many international issues, than do the americans on their home ground.

really? just like your citizens looked at the last war they fought? gulf war 1?

if you guys are so smart, lucius, why are you getting your arses handed to you in iraq? you certainly arent winning, what with a growing resistance (notice i did not use the word 'insurgency', which i believe to be innaccurate) and you guys bleeding at...2 or so lives a day? with a dissapearing 'coalition of the willing'? with mounting international condemnation? with crumbling treaties and embargoes, as per russian/chinese/iranian arms sales contra to american wishes?

your army was not built to counter assymetric warfare. not conventional army is. its why youre losing.

you sound a tad condescending, lucius. you 'googled' it? really? you mean, like, google.com. you mean, THE google.com. ? the one that i can tap in anytime i want? please. if its classified, then its not on google, meaning, you havnt seen it. and if it is on google, then i can see it whenever i want, meaning you cant preach to me. so dont

all youve said, at best, for you, is that niether of us have any idea what would really happen if war came...but if logic prevailed, given the US disaster in iraq, against an enemy 20 million or so strong, in open terrain, after a decade of sanctions, as opposed to another enemy 1300 million strong, unweakened by sanctions, with mountinous terrain and a shocking willingness to give up its citizens lives....i dont know. id say youre in a bit of trouble

the american way of life? what issue could i possibly have against the american way of life? what do i give a toss? come on. and bush? bush offends me because he is a lying, conniving, stupid bastard. im insulted. at least let me be deceived by someone likeable, and clever. like clinton, for example. i liked that guy.

i understand economics rather well, by the way. its one of those subjects God gave me. i misse most of my eco classes, and still wound up with the second highest mark in the school, and probably top 5 in the state, so really, honestly, i get whats going on. i just dont like the way US corporations in particular use their market and political power. the iraq war is, indirectly, an example of that.

firstly, i never said corporations were evil. soulless maybe, but never evil. therefore, i have no idea how you could argue against such a person, since i have not encounteres them before. do you need advice? ill think about it for you, if you like. pm me

no, i dont do it because i cant be arsed. its hardly beyond my intellect. really.

no, that wasnt my point. but, given that youve been so condescending throughout your post, i could step forward and offer my argument, though i could sit here and let you flounder in your own rhetoric...

...my point is that the 'superpower' that is the US, of which we speak, is in conventional terms. trying to match a conventional military with an assymetric enemy just doesnt work, and is why the US is falling on its arse in iraq....because while your tanks and trucks are better than anyones anti tank and anti plane millies etc etc....theyre still beatable by people willing to lose thier lives in doing so.

the US makes equipment etc etc based on the premise that soldiers want to survive. the jihadists willingness to die exploits that vulnerability, because at the end of hte day, with all their trillions of dollars, the US military cant develop a bomb as efficint, or cheap, or accurate, or devastating, as a suicide bomber and 50 bucks worth of explosive wrapped in ball bearings.

uhuh. soooooo then, was it useful for the US to spend a couple of trillion bucks in ousting saddam, only to have iraq fairly well amalgamate with iran?

the word neoconservative has changed meanings a few times anyway, lucius.

it isnt about wanting to be a pessimist, its about seeing life as it is. the US has been acting very shittily lately. me saying so doesnt make me a pessimist...its just a reflection of what i see.

also, i dont trust 'experts' on television. some things they say are correct, but in general, logic would indicate that i take everything i see on tv with a grain of salt.

also, you may think that these people are smarter than you, but as to whether theyre smarter than me, well...first, you sont know me well enough to make that call, and secondly, ill only agree with you if i spend a couple of moths chatting to the person and they somehow truly floor me with their intellect. until then, those mofos are just another bunch of guys

brotheabill, im tired. its 7am. ive been out drinking, partying, and doing my thang, and im devastatingly tired. ill see yo uin the morning, and ill tell you about some girls. maybe

gnite

Only someone as ignorant and blinded by their political leanings as you would think that we are "losing" in Iraq.

Just how are you judging this? Body Count? Reforms? Opinion of Iraqi citizens?

Those seem like the 3 major ones, and I dont see how anyone in their right mind could think we are "losing" on any of them.

 

[75th]

You and your generalizations. I suppose you think English can't cook and have bad teeth, Frenchmen are stuck up, Germans are all engineers, and Greek guys smell bad and take it up the ass (well, I guess you do know the last one by personal experience).



The average death rate for US Soldiers in Iraq is cyclical, and is actually lower than the daily deathrate per 100,000 soldiers as compiled by the pentagon over the last 20 years.
PDF Chart Of Active Duty Deaths from 1980-2004

The average length of post-war insurgency during the 20th Century was nine years, not two. Why should we care about mounting international condemnations from the French? Lets not go into French military history, it isn't pretty.

Battle is a flowing situation, you don't give up because someone throws an unknown tactic at you. You adapt to the tactics. The insurgency is in decline, if you notice the insurgency is mostly targeting the indigenous people not the troops. Also, there is an intense rivalry between the Ba'athists and the foreign insurgents that has touched off into an insurgent civil war.

Nice. Now that he has no argument, he will cease to reply on this thread.

 

[BrothaBill]

american people are, in general, ignorant. that is an unfortunate product of a tame domestic corporate media. i can assure you, the rest of the world sees a vastly different picture of the war in iraq, and in fact many international issues, than do the americans on their home ground.

really? just like your citizens looked at the last war they fought? gulf war 1?

if you guys are so smart, lucius, why are you getting your arses handed to you in iraq? you certainly arent winning, what with a growing resistance (notice i did not use the word 'insurgency', which i believe to be innaccurate) and you guys bleeding at...2 or so lives a day? with a dissapearing 'coalition of the willing'? with mounting international condemnation? with crumbling treaties and embargoes, as per russian/chinese/iranian arms sales contra to american wishes?

your army was not built to counter assymetric warfare. not conventional army is. its why youre losing.

you sound a tad condescending, lucius. you 'googled' it? really? you mean, like, google.com. you mean, THE google.com. ? the one that i can tap in anytime i want? please. if its classified, then its not on google, meaning, you havnt seen it. and if it is on google, then i can see it whenever i want, meaning you cant preach to me. so dont

all youve said, at best, for you, is that niether of us have any idea what would really happen if war came...but if logic prevailed, given the US disaster in iraq, against an enemy 20 million or so strong, in open terrain, after a decade of sanctions, as opposed to another enemy 1300 million strong, unweakened by sanctions, with mountinous terrain and a shocking willingness to give up its citizens lives....i dont know. id say youre in a bit of trouble

the american way of life? what issue could i possibly have against the american way of life? what do i give a toss? come on. and bush? bush offends me because he is a lying, conniving, stupid bastard. im insulted. at least let me be deceived by someone likeable, and clever. like clinton, for example. i liked that guy.

i understand economics rather well, by the way. its one of those subjects God gave me. i misse most of my eco classes, and still wound up with the second highest mark in the school, and probably top 5 in the state, so really, honestly, i get whats going on. i just dont like the way US corporations in particular use their market and political power. the iraq war is, indirectly, an example of that.

firstly, i never said corporations were evil. soulless maybe, but never evil. therefore, i have no idea how you could argue against such a person, since i have not encounteres them before. do you need advice? ill think about it for you, if you like. pm me

no, i dont do it because i cant be arsed. its hardly beyond my intellect. really.

no, that wasnt my point. but, given that youve been so condescending throughout your post, i could step forward and offer my argument, though i could sit here and let you flounder in your own rhetoric...

...my point is that the 'superpower' that is the US, of which we speak, is in conventional terms. trying to match a conventional military with an assymetric enemy just doesnt work, and is why the US is falling on its arse in iraq....because while your tanks and trucks are better than anyones anti tank and anti plane millies etc etc....theyre still beatable by people willing to lose thier lives in doing so.

the US makes equipment etc etc based on the premise that soldiers want to survive. the jihadists willingness to die exploits that vulnerability, because at the end of hte day, with all their trillions of dollars, the US military cant develop a bomb as efficint, or cheap, or accurate, or devastating, as a suicide bomber and 50 bucks worth of explosive wrapped in ball bearings.

uhuh. soooooo then, was it useful for the US to spend a couple of trillion bucks in ousting saddam, only to have iraq fairly well amalgamate with iran?

the word neoconservative has changed meanings a few times anyway, lucius.

it isnt about wanting to be a pessimist, its about seeing life as it is. the US has been acting very shittily lately. me saying so doesnt make me a pessimist...its just a reflection of what i see.

also, i dont trust 'experts' on television. some things they say are correct, but in general, logic would indicate that i take everything i see on tv with a grain of salt.

also, you may think that these people are smarter than you, but as to whether theyre smarter than me, well...first, you sont know me well enough to make that call, and secondly, ill only agree with you if i spend a couple of moths chatting to the person and they somehow truly floor me with their intellect. until then, those mofos are just another bunch of guys

brotheabill, im tired. its 7am. ive been out drinking, partying, and doing my thang, and im devastatingly tired. ill see yo uin the morning, and ill tell you about some girls. maybe

gnite

LOL, you just hate the US thats all hahaha! Plus I made you write a lengthy response which was funny, I have total control over you!! I have studied this stuff for years and met with many people and discussed it personally with them. I had a personal tour with a friend who was highly placed in the FBI and which I posted about a coupla years ago, Ive been in the FBI warroom for 9-11, stood at the podium with the FBI seal on where they gave press conferences. Seen the inner workings and the computer systems, the wiretap systems, all of that. Discussed the patriot act with the lead counsel for the FBI where I wont disclose where and he was my neighbor and we watched football games together. When I was at the headquarters I met the consulate general from Japan, the head of the FBI region as we met in the elevator and continued talking as we toured the facility. I know alot more than I let on or could let on. Its a fascinating system setup, your jaw would drop on the floor if youve been to where Ive been lolol. I have faith in the US b/c Ive seen with my own eyes and ears what men and women dedicate their lives in preserving, willing to die for freedom and have, talked about people he knew that died in Oklahoma city, talked about the nations most notorious, discussed terrorism and plans and pitfalls and issues that are trying to be addressed. Its a mad mad mad world.
Ill explain it some time to you when we grab a beer when I come to Australia soon, although I dont know why anyone would live in the Northern territory, Id like to hear a logical explanation of that as well

 

[Spartacus]

I think the biggest problem with China having a modern military model is thier inability to allow forward commanders flexibility. True with all armies based upon the Soviet model. The win by attrition method is brutal and effective, but a much smaller German force was able to invade Russia and push all the way to Stalingrad. I would never suggest invading China, but stopping them from moving out of thier territory and pushing them back to thier original borders would be relatively easy.

Also, they trust none of thier people with more powerful weapons so they may have a bunch of nukes on paper, but since the warheads are never near a delivery system, what use are they? Technologically, I think they will modernize some of thier components but it will be a relatively small portion of thier total force strength. If you think waste is abundant in a relatively capitalistic economy, you should see what it is like in Communist China. Everyone in the government has thier own little cashcow bailiwick.

and contrary to popular knowledge
in russia as well as france the germans scored their greatest victories with considerably inferior armor
outnumbered too
it wasn't until the eastern front had been largely decided that the germans were able to field tigers and panthers
the few tigers the germans had at kursk scored incredible kill ratios
the panthers at kursk are a myth
overall the battle of kursk(largest tank battle in history) is still popularily portrayed as some great soviet victory
in fact against considerable dug in and fortified defensive positions and outnumbered as usual
the germans were able to almost force the river psel and triumph
prochorovka
Hitler called off the offensive due to the allied landings in sicily

 

[Spartacus]

and then were utterly defeated by the russianans...seems to disprove the point you are trying to make about german superoity

12million russian KIA
2 million german KIA
incredible

facing the western allies as well as the soviets
it's absolutely astounding how well the german's performed
considering too that in late '43 Hitler's decisions were becoming fantastic