The Perfect Cycle - My Search

[wolfpuppy]

Hi All,

I finally decided on trying my first cycle after many years of thinking about it. Naturally I'm very cautious and after reading Bottomline Bodybuilding I thought The Perfect Cycle made total sense.

Through a friend a got a contact and said this is what I need (1/2 the dosage Nelson recommends as per beginners):

WEEK 1
Dianabol 10 mg/day
Sustanon 100 mg/week
Primobolan 200 mg/week

WEEK2
Oxandralone 15 mg/day
Testosterone Cypionate or Enanthate 100 mg/week
Primobolan 150 mg/week

WEEK3
Oral Winstrol 10 mg/day
Primobolan 200 mg/week

WEEK4
Proviron 25 mg/day (wouldn't use it unless I felt I needed it)

This is the response I got:

No No No! You need to stay away frorm all this water retention Test. All you need is Trenbalone Acetate, With Test Prop for six weeks. That will put real muscle, not water bloatness, then you will go on winstroltabs 25mg tabs three times a day. It's low dosage, therefore easy on the liver. During on winstrol cycle NO DRINKING!!! Combined with ,Clenbuteral, & Prop, and that will shread you! Keep in mind DIET, DIET, DIET!!! ,,,,,,VERY IMPORTANT or its a waste of time and $$$$.

Well, I did some follow-up research in it all seems okay. Then I get on this board and read what the man himself (Nelson Montana) has to say. His advice on Trenbalone Acetate and Clenbuteral is stay the fuck away.

Opinions or advice are welcome.

 

[Nelson Montana]

You have to realize that cycle isn't meant to be a practical option -- it's more of a "if you can do anything you want at any cost, this would be ideal" kind of option. I've since come to realize that most people OVERTHINK their cycles.

I don't like or recommend Clen.

Tren is not for me or anyone who want to have a functional HPTA. It is, however, intensely effective.

As far as the responder saying there is too much water retention in that cycle, that's B.S. And the rest of the advice has noting to do with the cycle.

 

[iceman7230]

Four week cycle! GARABAGE

 

[fatbg]

I think starting with low, thought out dosages is the way to go. My best cycle was sust 250/week for 10 weeks, dbol 20mg/day for first 4 weeks. I recovered quickly from it despite being 38 at the time. I know Nelson likes short cycles but this one worked really well for me. When it comes to short cycles I like dbol/var/test(prop). I have ran a few 6 weekers using these compounds with success and minimal suppression which is important to me.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Four week cycle! GARABAGE

That's wrong bro. Short cycles can work really well for guys who want to avoid suppression. It takes longer and the results are less dramatic but the gains are more solid and you can quit without having to resort to HRT.

 

[iceman7230]

That's wrong bro. Short cycles can work really well for guys who want to avoid suppression. It takes longer and the results are less dramatic but the gains are more solid and you can quit without having to resort to HRT.

Guess it depends on your goals

 

[cuts82]

Four week cycle! GARABAGE

lol at the bluntness. but i agree it seems shit house! too short and too low doses. i definitely dig the concept of maybe a six week dbol or prop cycle.

 

[wolfpuppy]

You have to realize that cycle isn't meant to be a practical option -- it's more of a "if you can do anything you want at any cost, this would be ideal" kind of option. I've since come to realize that most people OVERTHINK their cycles.

I don't like or recommend Clen.

Tren is not for me or anyone who want to have a functional HPTA. It is, however, intensely effective.

As far as the responder saying there is too much water retention in that cycle, that's B.S. And the rest of the advice has noting to do with the cycle.

Thanks for getting back to me. It's funny but all the steroid "gurus" think Clen is fantastic. Even before I read your opinion I wasn't keen on the idea. I've been able to lose fat with just watching my diet. The last thing I want to try for the first time is both gear and Clen.

Money isn't really an object for me so I would love to try The Perfect Cycle. Seems like it will be harder to get than I thought. I'm going to try and push him for Primo and forget the Tren. I figure the Test Prop will be an okay substitute for Test Cyp or Eth.

Regarding the Proviron, it seems you now recommend some Arimidex, UNLEASHED, and POST CYCLE instead. Is this correct?

If you were to write The Perfect Cycle today how would it look?

My genetics will not let me get bigger than say Frank Zane or Sylvester Stallone so I'm not really interested in taking lots of gear. I'm more concerned about my health but I think the benifit to risk ratio is worth it if I stay on short cycles.

 

[Acela]

I am just curious, to the OP....
-how old are you?
-how long have you been working out?
-what type of split or routine do you follow?
-what is your diet like?

 

[calyptus]

I've seen nelson's cycle work, they do what they claim to do. What I don't get is why to cut it in half, even for a beginner. The doses are already quite conservative, imo you can go as high as you want as long as you manage to keep your endo test high. In the end it still won't be a heavy cycle.

 

[wolfpuppy]

I am just curious, to the OP....
-how old are you?
-how long have you been working out?
-what type of split or routine do you follow?
-what is your diet like?

39 years old.

On and off for 6 years. Last two years have been steady and continuous.

Full body twice a week. Thinking about an upper/lower split soon.

The past two weeks I've been in "maintanance mode" because of the holidays. Next week I'll be back in cutting mode: Protein = 180g, Fat = 68g, Carbs = 240g. I've lost about 10 pounds of fat in 6 weeks (slow and steady). Anther 10 pounds of fat and then I'll start increasing my calories and start The Perfect Cycle (or as close to it as I can get).

I'm 6 feet and weigh 200lbs now at 16% bf.

 

[wolfpuppy]

I think starting with low, thought out dosages is the way to go. My best cycle was sust 250/week for 10 weeks, dbol 20mg/day for first 4 weeks. I recovered quickly from it despite being 38 at the time. I know Nelson likes short cycles but this one worked really well for me. When it comes to short cycles I like dbol/var/test(prop). I have ran a few 6 weekers using these compounds with success and minimal suppression which is important to me.

Sounds like a good cycle but I'd rather start even more conservative in the beginning. My biggest problem is going to be trying to get my contact to give me what I want instead of what he thinks is best. Since I'm a newbie he'll think I don't know what I'm talking about.

I've seen nelson's cycle work, they do what they claim to do. What I don't get is why to cut it in half, even for a beginner. The doses are already quite conservative, imo you can go as high as you want as long as you manage to keep your endo test high. In the end it still won't be a heavy cycle.

Since I'm new to this I'll differ to the more experienced and knowledgeable. Not saying that you're not one of those, but after reading Bottomline Bodybuilding I'm hyped to try th Perfect Cycle. I will up the doses next cycle in. When I get more comfortable I'll start experimenting some more, but not too much.

 

[HAYEZ]

four week cycle! Garabage

i agree..this laid out cycle is pointless...might as well burn your money

 

[Nelson Montana]

Thanks for getting back to me. It's funny but all the steroid "gurus" think Clen is fantastic. Even before I read your opinion I wasn't keen on the idea. I've been able to lose fat with just watching my diet. The last thing I want to try for the first time is both gear and Clen.

Money isn't really an object for me so I would love to try The Perfect Cycle. Seems like it will be harder to get than I thought. I'm going to try and push him for Primo and forget the Tren. I figure the Test Prop will be an okay substitute for Test Cyp or Eth.

Regarding the Proviron, it seems you now recommend some Arimidex, UNLEASHED, and POST CYCLE instead. Is this correct?

If you were to write The Perfect Cycle today how would it look?

My genetics will not let me get bigger than say Frank Zane or Sylvester Stallone so I'm not really interested in taking lots of gear. I'm more concerned about my health but I think the benifit to risk ratio is worth it if I stay on short cycles.

Now with UNLEASHED, there's no need for Proviron . If I were to revamp it today I'd extend the Primo another week and add an extra 100 mgs to that dosing. The Sus is negotiable but it contains prop for that "instant hit" though I don;t think that makes that much of a difference.

HAYEZ is speaking for himself. he'd already admitted he doesn;t mind losing libido or using vet gear. He's never used pharm. He's always on. Those are very different ideals from many of the people who want to try using steroids for a little bump.

The dosages are low and may not need to be cut in half for a beginner but it's alwasy easy to go up in dosage. I find that when first doing roids, guys train harder and eat better and THAT brings about most of the gains. But I understand, today, the thinking is to do stick as much in your ass as possible and then sit on it and wait for the magic to begin.

 

[HAYEZ]

Now with UNLEASHED, there's no need for Proviron . If I were to revamp it today I'd extend the Primo another week. The Sus is negotiable but it contains prop for that "instant hit" though I don;t think that makes that much of a difference.

HAYEZ is speaking for himself. he'd already admitted he doesn;t mind losing libido or using vet gear. He's never used pharm. He's always on. Those are very different ideals from many of the people who want to try using steroids for a little bump.

The dosages are low and may not need to be cut in half for a beginner but it's alwasy easy to go up in dosage. I find that when first doing roids, guys train harder and eat better and THAT brings about most of the gains. But I understand, today, the thinking is to do stick as much in your ass as possible and then sit on it and wait for the magic to begin.

i was saying a 4 week cycle with that low of doses is going to achieve nothing..doesnt even give it time to work

 

[Nelson Montana]

i was saying a 4 week cycle with that low of doses is going to achieve nothing..doesnt even give it time to work

'


Oh, in that case you're just wrong. Why would muscle wait to grow in later weeks and not the first ones? You're actually MORE receptive in the beginning.

Up until 1990 or so, the standard length for a cycle was 6 weeks. Are you saying that didn't work?

I've never gone over 6 weeks. I've never gone over 600 mgs a week. Maybe that's why I still had a functional HPTA into my late 40's.

 

[iceman7230]

'


Oh, in that case you're just wrong. Why would muscle wait to grow in later weeks and not the first ones? You're actually MORE receptive in the beginning.

Up until 1990 or so, the standard length for a cycle was 6 weeks. Are you saying that didn't work?

I've never gone over 6 weeks. I've never gone over 600 mgs a week. Maybe that's why I still had a functional HPTA into my late 40's.

How could you have a functional HTPA when you are on TRT? Are you planning on having kids. I am not trying to be rude I am just interested.

 

[Nelson Montana]

How could you have a functional HTPA when you are on TRT? Are you planning on having kids. I am not trying to be rude I am just interested.

I didn't go on HRT until I was 48. And even then, my levels were in the acceptable range but I convinced my doc to put me on because I wanted them to be on the higher side. To this day I only use 100mgs a week and my T is still around 800-900 and my Free T is on the high end of a 30 year old. (Which I attribute to daily dosing of UNLEASHED).

So bottom line -- my gear use didn't hurt my HPTA. How many guys who swear by 16 week cycles can say that?

 

[the_alcatraz]

I actually agree with Hayez...

I don't really feel the test and some other aas until week 2-3

How do you cycle for 4 weeks, and so many different compounds?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I actually agree with Hayez...

I don't really feel the test and some other aas until week 2-3

How do you cycle for 4 weeks, and so many different compounds?

That many compounds aren't necessary. That's just a very elitist cycle with premier compounds.

I always felt gear within a few days. When you train naturally for 20 years, that'll happen.

 

[brandonp005]

I started a cycle one time of Omnadren @ 500mg/wk and got sick in the middle of week 2 so I dropped it after 3 injections. I didn't feel shit. After recovering from illness I got back on and by week 4 it was magical so I know my gear was legit. I would love to see results with Sust @ 100mg/wk and Test Eth. at only 100mg/wk for only 1 week of each. That simply amazes me.

 

[the_alcatraz]

That many compounds aren't necessary. That's just a very elitist cycle with premier compounds.

I always felt gear within a few days. When you train naturally for 20 years, that'll happen.

The only gear that I feel right away is orals, or short esters

Other gear usually takes me a week mim to feel...like really feel it

 

[Ahooligan]

39 years old.

On and off for 6 years. Last two years have been steady and continuous.

Full body twice a week. Thinking about an upper/lower split soon.

The past two weeks I've been in "maintanance mode" because of the holidays. Next week I'll be back in cutting mode: Protein = 180g, Fat = 68g, Carbs = 240g. I've lost about 10 pounds of fat in 6 weeks (slow and steady). Anther 10 pounds of fat and then I'll start increasing my calories and start The Perfect Cycle (or as close to it as I can get).

I'm 6 feet and weigh 200lbs now at 16% bf.

I think you diet is off. Way 2 many carbs to lean out. Do a search of ketosis and take a look at the amount of carbs your body needs. I would up the fat and drop the carbs...but what do i know.

H

 

[wolfpuppy]

I think you diet is off. Way 2 many carbs to lean out. Do a search of ketosis and take a look at the amount of carbs your body needs. I would up the fat and drop the carbs...but what do i know.

H

That would be true if I said, "Hey, I've been doing this diet and not losing any weight! What am I doing wrong?" But I'm not saying that. I've said I've lost 10 pounds of fat (not water, not muscle), and I plan on losing another 10. It works for me. I don't plan on competing and I will probably never go on a ketogenic diet. There's no need for me to get to 3% body fat. I'll be more than happy with 7%. I'm not very carb sensitive anyway.

Yes, I'm conservative on steroid cycles and I'm conservative on weight loss. Maybe if I was younger I'd try and juice up more and compete, but right now I'll be fine just getting a damn nice body.

I did make a mistake earlier when I said I'm at 16% body fat. That was when I started at 210 lbs. I'm now closer to 12% and 200 lbs.

 

[iceman7230]

I didn't go on HRT until I was 48. And even then, my levels were in the acceptable range but I convinced my doc to put me on because I wanted them to be on the higher side. To this day I only use 100mgs a week and my T is still around 800-900 and my Free T is on the high end of a 30 year old. (Which I attribute to daily dosing of UNLEASHED).

So bottom line -- my gear use didn't hurt my HPTA. How many guys who swear by 16 week cycles can say that?

I just don't get why people even use steroids if they do not want to get enormous. You can get pretty big natty without messing anything up.

The main reason I juice is because at 225 it was hard for me to gain any more mass.

Look at the pro bbers that were naturally good, they didn't need juice till they reached their peak.

I know it is easier to just start a cycle and gain mass but seriously if you do not want to get huge one can do it naturally much safer.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I just don't get why people even use steroids if they do not want to get enormous. You can get pretty big natty without messing anything up.

The main reason I juice is because at 225 it was hard for me to gain any more mass.

Look at the pro bbers that were naturally good, they didn't need juice till they reached their peak.

I know it is easier to just start a cycle and gain mass but seriously if you do not want to get huge one can do it naturally much safer.

That makes no sense bro. Why does it have to be one way or the other? Some guys reach a peak and want to go just a bit beyond it. Steroids can give that extra edge. Does it have to be to a damaging degree? Not everybody wants to be 275 lbs.

 

[iceman7230]

That makes no sense bro. Why does it have to be one way or the other? Some guys reach a peak and want to go just a bit beyond it. Steroids can give that extra edge. Does it have to be to a damaging degree? Not everybody wants to be 275 lbs.

That is not exactly what I am trying to point out.

What I am trying to say is many people do not want to get to their peak naturally. I see guys on here that are 130lbs-150lbs and are doing cycles. People who just start training when they start steroids.

I know I will probably not stop anyone from taking steroids but people should try to get big naturally first.

 

[Nelson Montana]

That is not exactly what I am trying to point out.

What I am trying to say is many people do not want to get to their peak naturally. I see guys on here that are 130lbs-150lbs and are doing cycles. People who just start training when they start steroids.

I know I will probably not stop anyone from taking steroids but people should try to get big naturally first.

Well, that, I agree with.

 

[bblazer]

I just don't get why people even use steroids if they do not want to get enormous.

I think because you are looking at it very one dimensionally. I am not a BB'er. I am in it for power lifting. I don't want to get enormous, I just want to be able to lift more than the next guy. I care about how I look and my BF% etc, but only to a point (17% bf is fine for me).

Plus like Nelson, I'm an old guy and all you youngins are starting to catch up and I need every crutch I can get.

B-

 

[needtogetaas]

hi all,

i finally decided on trying my first cycle after many years of thinking about it. Naturally i'm very cautious and after reading bottomline bodybuilding i thought the perfect cycle made total sense.

Through a friend a got a contact and said this is what i need (1/2 the dosage nelson recommends as per beginners):

Week 1
dianabol 10 mg/day
sustanon 100 mg/week
primobolan 200 mg/week

week2
oxandralone 15 mg/day
testosterone cypionate or enanthate 100 mg/week
primobolan 150 mg/week

week3
oral winstrol 10 mg/day
primobolan 200 mg/week

week4
proviron 25 mg/day (wouldn't use it unless i felt i needed it)

this is the response i got:

no no no! You need to stay away frorm all this water retention test. All you need is trenbalone acetate, with test prop for six weeks. That will put real muscle, not water bloatness, then you will go on winstroltabs 25mg tabs three times a day. It's low dosage, therefore easy on the liver. During on winstrol cycle no drinking!!! Combined with ,clenbuteral, & prop, and that will shread you! Keep in mind diet, diet, diet!!! ,,,,,,very important or its a waste of time and $$$$.

well, i did some follow-up research in it all seems okay. Then i get on this board and read what the man himself (nelson montana) has to say. His advice on trenbalone acetate and clenbuteral is stay the fuck away.

Opinions or advice are welcome.

i will agree your friend is a dumb ass :d btw welcome to ef

 

[needtogetaas]

The user 'wolfpuppy' has been gifted a platinum membership!

 

[wolfpuppy]

The user 'wolfpuppy' has been gifted a platinum membership!

Appreciated.

 

[wolfpuppy]

You have to realize that cycle isn't meant to be a practical option -- it's more of a "if you can do anything you want at any cost, this would be ideal" kind of option.

What would you recommend THE PRACTICLE CYCLE look like?

• 3-4 weeks
• Two or three different types
• One oral, one or two injectibles

Any good suggestions from the "short cycle" believers?

 

[Nelson Montana]

What would you THE PRACTICLE CYCLE look like?

• 3-4 weeks
• Two or three different types
• One oral, one or two injectibles

Any good suggestions from the "short cycle" believers?

I'm sure you'll get opposing opinions about this because the myth of steroids taking weeks to "kick in" still exists. A simple version for a first cycle is to use 200-300mgs of Primo for 4 weeks. Use 20 mgs of d-bol a day for the first week, followed by 250 mgs of test for the last 3 weeks. Go immediately into HMG, UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE, dex, Sustain PCT and continue for one month. You should get a nice feel for the juice, recover with no problems and keep 4-5 pounds of muscle. That may not sound like a lot but imagine what 5 pounds of beef looks like. It's unlikely you'd grow that naturally in a year. Good luck.

 

[skaman007]

Now with UNLEASHED, there's no need for Proviron . If I were to revamp it today I'd extend the Primo another week and add an extra 100 mgs to that dosing. The Sus is negotiable but it contains prop for that "instant hit" though I don;t think that makes that much of a difference.

HAYEZ is speaking for himself. he'd already admitted he doesn;t mind losing libido or using vet gear. He's never used pharm. He's always on. Those are very different ideals from many of the people who want to try using steroids for a little bump.

The dosages are low and may not need to be cut in half for a beginner but it's alwasy easy to go up in dosage. I find that when first doing roids, guys train harder and eat better and THAT brings about most of the gains. But I understand, today, the thinking is to do stick as much in your ass as possible and then sit on it and wait for the magic to begin.

nelson,,on my test e 10 weeker comimg up,,to free up bound test ,should i take unleashed all thru cycle and pct?how long does one bottle last?

 

[Nelson Montana]

nelson,,on my test e 10 weeker comimg up,,to free up bound test ,should i take unleashed all thru cycle and pct?how long does one bottle last?

That would definitely help. A bottle lasts a month. Or you can double the dosage for a super kick.

 

[skaman007]

That would definitely help. A bottle lasts a month. Or you can double the dosage for a super kick.

cool as i am 40 with test count of 549 but free test of only 11.9,,so most of my test seeems bound,,,.so i definetly need to free some up!!!maybe this is why i havent made great gains all these yrs,.

 

[HAYEZ]

I'm sure you'll get opposing opinions about this because the myth of steroids taking weeks to "kick in" still exists. A simple version for a first cycle is to use 200-300mgs of Primo for 4 weeks. Use 20 mgs of d-bol a day for the first week, followed by 250 mgs of test for the last 3 weeks. Go immediately into HMG, UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE, dex, Sustain PCT and continue for one month. You should get a nice feel for the juice, recover with no problems and keep 4-5 pounds of muscle. That may not sound like a lot but imagine what 5 pounds of beef looks like. It's unlikely you'd grow that naturally in a year. Good luck.

im sorry but that cycle is just rediculous.
i find it hard to belive you could suggest someone do a cycle like this

 

[joe d]

this doesnt make sence to me. why use long estered gear on a 4 wk cycle? i love the short cycles but i thought you needed the short or no ester gear?

 

[Nelson Montana]

im sorry but that cycle is just rediculous.
i find it hard to belive you could suggest someone do a cycle like this

Just because you can't make it work or don't understand it doesn't make it ridiculous. It just isn't for you.

 

[brandonp005]

these short cycles are very intriguing..would be great for those who aren't looking for dramatic gains that would really show that your on juice

 

[joe d]

What would you THE PRACTICLE CYCLE look like?

• 3-4 weeks
• Two or three different types
• One oral, one or two injectibles

Any good suggestions from the "short cycle" believers?

test suspention or prop
dbol
winny

or

test prop
tren a
winny

just long enough to get through the first big gain. for me its 3-4 wks

 

[Nelson Montana]

For the life of me I don't get what people don;t understand about this. If an ester lasts longer, what's wrong with that? Why does that make it a poor choice for a shorter cycle? What's the problem? Does nobody see the illogic of that criticism?

If you use Primo it'll still be active a week after you take it. If you use prop it'll be inactive. How does that make prop a better choice? This is a major misunderstanding. PROP DOES NOT GROW MUSCLE FASTER!!!!

 

[josenunes]

For the life of me I don't get what people don;t understand about this. If an ester lasts longer, what's wrong with that? Why does that make it a poor choice for a shorter cycle? What's the problem? Does nobody see the illogic of that criticism?

If you use Primo it'll still be active a week after you take it. If you use prop it'll be inactive. How does that make prop a better choice? This is a major misunderstanding. PROP DOES NOT GROW MUSCLE FASTER!!!!

I don't understand when you say tren acetate will ruin the htpa, of course it will suppress endogenous test but if used on a short cycle as yours perfect cycle the htpa will recover quickly , after all we are talking on a very short ester with a great anabolic potential

 

[wolfpuppy]

I'm sure you'll get opposing opinions about this because the myth of steroids taking weeks to "kick in" still exists. A simple version for a first cycle is to use 200-300mgs of Primo for 4 weeks. Use 20 mgs of d-bol a day for the first week, followed by 250 mgs of test for the last 3 weeks. Go immediately into HMG, UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE, dex, Sustain PCT and continue for one month. You should get a nice feel for the juice, recover with no problems and keep 4-5 pounds of muscle. That may not sound like a lot but imagine what 5 pounds of beef looks like. It's unlikely you'd grow that naturally in a year. Good luck.

Thanks for answering all my newbie questions Nelson and the rest.


I'm too new to understand all these (even after I tried to google them):

• dex
• Sustain

Is HMG the new HCG? I think I read that it's better (probably one of your posts) but that it's hard as heck to get.

When you say test are you excluding test prop? I get the impression from your writing(wrongly or rightly) that its a different animal then test cyp/eth.

test prop
tren a
winny

just long enough to get through the first big gain. for me its 3-4 wks

This is pretty much what my contact is trying to get me to take (see first post) but he's telling me to take the winny in phase II (total cycle recommendation is 12 WEEKS!) and use clen with it. Tren seems too much for a first timer from everything I'm reading.

I'm professional in my work life and it drives me nuts having to deal with flakes and idiot underground dealers I'm trying to buy from. It's like going to a car dealership, knowing you want a Chevy Corvette and having they salesman telling you he's going to sell you a Nissan 350Z. This is what makes me not want to get involved in this more than anything else. Just venting.

 

[cuts82]

This is what makes me not want to get involved in this more than anything else. Just venting.[/QUOTE]


Then dont.
train natural and Pick up some of nelsons sups and train hard! You sound like your not looking to get big so it just makes sense,
you can achieve your goals naturally

 

[HAYEZ]

Just because you can't make it work or don't understand it doesn't make it ridiculous. It just isn't for you.

why would you use only a couple doses of diff kinds of long esthered gear. this just doesnt make sense at all..

 

[wolfpuppy]

Then dont.
train natural and Pick up some of nelsons sups and train hard! You sound like your not looking to get big so it just makes sense,
you can achieve your goals naturally

I shouldn't complain. You guys aren't my friends and you don't need to listen to my bullshit rants.

I have already made up my mind that I will do this. Even if it ends up being only one cycle at a low dose. I am going to spend more time without though. I need to find better sources for gear, and I need to educate myself more. The extra time training without couldn't hurt either.

 

[iceman7230]

I shouldn't complain. You guys aren't my friends and you don't need to listen to my bullshit rants.

I have already made up my mind that I will do this. Even if it ends up being only one cycle at a low dose. I am going to spend more time without though. I need to find better sources for gear, and I need to educate myself more. The extra time training without couldn't hurt either.

Sounds like you don't even need gear to get where you want. What are your stats- weight, height, traning experience, body fat?

 

[the_alcatraz]

^^ Agree with Iceman

 

[skaman007]

^^ Agree with Iceman

is it wise to keep repeating the same cycle??or do you need to shock your body with different compounds each cycle?

 

[iceman7230]

is it wise to keep repeating the same cycle??or do you need to shock your body with different compounds each cycle?

Always switch it up, this goes with jucing, workouts and diets.