The need to go to failure ...

[casualbb]

How many years of experience do you have? You seem adamant about your point. Can you post pics of yourself demonstrating that your training method has led you to outstanding results?

Most times when I ask this question I get answered with - Well, I'm not there yet.

Is any of that relevant? Do you want to criticize the message or the messenger? Because the truth is any training method has some big guys to support it. Would it really make a difference if I were 250 and ripped? Because I can get a couple of guys like that to come say the exact same thing I'm currently saying. Does that add credibility?

Do you want to argue the science? Or just anecdotes? Just because a bunch of people do something doesn't make it correct. 200 years ago all the top doctors thought bloodletting was an appropriate way to treat illness. Now in retrospect that seems quite extreme, but at the time they were following the exact same idea -- do it because everybody else is.

I have no trouble with failure training, just with people saying "it's the only way to go."

-casual

 

[sk*]

I see many powerlifters get great results not going to failure - never bodybuilders.

I fail to see the logic on how one can benefit from it but the other can't. With increased strength comes increased lbm right? When you get stronger, your muscles need to increase in size to help support more and more weight.

I would say that a lot of top powerlifters have more lbm than top bodybuilders. Thing is, they lose a lot of the size if they try to cut and don't necessarily end up doing so good in bb competitions ... although many do great.

Strength and size come hand in hand. I never got bigger without gaining strength.

-sk

 

[crew9]

So because the top guys do it it's right? That's some flawed logic.



Heard of Boris Kleine? He's won German heavyweight a few times as well as recently an International Grand Prix in Norway. Dunno if that's "top world" but it's not bad.

There are some shots of him at the norway show on the HST boards: http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=14;t=878;hl=boris+kleine

-casual

That guys is very impressive yes. I have no doubt that people can make great gains if they don't train to failure. The fact I could post a ton of pics of people who look better or similar who do train to failure so showing one pic doesn't do much.

 

[crew9]

I fail to see the logic on how one can benefit from it but the other can't. With increased strength comes increased lbm right? When you get stronger, your muscles need to increase in size to help support more and more weight.

I would say that a lot of top powerlifters have more lbm than top bodybuilders. Thing is, they lose a lot of the size if they try to cut and don't necessarily end up doing so good in bb competitions ... although many do great.

Strength and size come hand in hand. I never got bigger without gaining strength.

-sk

You think powerlifters have more lean mass than bodybuilders???? No size and strength don't always go hand in hand.

 

[casualbb]

Well no that was just in response to sofageorge saying "I defy anyone to show any real world top body that doesn't go to failure."

I was like "okay, here's one."

 

[coolcolj]

Sofa george - I have a good reply to your questions - but it will take a while to type out

 

[Zander1983]

Sofa george - I have a good reply to your questions - but it will take a while to type out

Type away please

 

[JollyRogers]

Does this look like I went to failure?

This is how I go to failure when I do go to failure, example of one of my failure workouts.


Monday - Chest/Tri
(Today)

1#
-Incline Bench
Warmup 145lbs 1x8
245 2x4 +half rep each

2#
-Flat Bench
275 1x1
315 1x4
275 2x4
245 2x8

3#
-Decline
225 2x8

Tri

4#
-Weighted dips w/ 25lbs plate
1x6
1x5
1x4
1x3
-Without weight 1x4

5#
-Overhead press
68lbs Dumbell
1x5 sitting
1x4 stand
1x3 sitting
1x2 stand

 

[MeatHead57]

i go to complete failure on everything accept your core moves i try to go 2 under failure so i have enough energy to get the heavier weight up then on your light weight high reps i go to absolute lose your breath and pass out kind of failure. to get the heavier weight up its worked for me through bulking iv gained muscle and stayed cut.

 

[sk*]

You think powerlifters have more lean mass than bodybuilders???? No size and strength don't always go hand in hand.

I'm talking about the guys who squat 1000lbs. I bet some/many of them have more lean mass than ronnie. Thing is everyone starts at a certain strength level and progresses up at a certain pace, I believe this has to do more with genetics than anything else.

-sk