the greatest armies in the world

[hanselthecaretaker]

While that may be true, I think that it hardly debatable that Germany was far worse off after Hitler than before and that the holocaust did, in fact, occur.

If I were a man making the same arguments would you be so quick to dismiss my opinions on the matter as "emotional." I doubt it.

As a matter of fact, yes I would have, because most people regardless of gender seem to react the same way to such a sensitive subject. I know I probably would have years ago too when I didn't know or care to know more than any other average joe on the subject.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I heard that quote from Stalin came when FDR or Churchill asked Stalin about the intelligence relating to the Soviet Army raping its way through Eastern Europe and Germany. I'm not sure though....

Could've been.

 

[javaguru]

It was heading there regardless. His anti-semitism was gradually developed through real-world observation and interaction with Jews. Chalking them up to mysticism would be sensational at best. Also, Germany was already economically infested with communism when before Hitler took power, so you would've been hard pressed to find a real German at the time who regretted his decision to fight it.

Many people haven't read anything about Germany between the wars. The Jews were blamed for the loss of WWI, a Jewish fifth column supposedly stabbed Germany in the back by inciting the German Revolution and forced the armistice.It certainly wasn't the first or last time the Jews have been used as scapegoats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolchstosslegende
"The Dolchstosslegende (German: Dolchstoßlegende, literally "Dagger stab legend" often translated into English as "stab-in-the-back myth") refers to a social myth and persecution-propaganda theory popular in Germany in the period after World War I through World War II. It attributed Germany's defeat to a number of domestic factors instead of failed militarist geostrategy. Most notably, the theory proclaimed that the public had failed to respond to its "patriotic calling" at the most crucial of times and some had even intentionally "sabotaged the war effort."

The legend echoed the epic poem Nibelungenlied in which the dragon-slaying hero Siegfried is stabbed in the back by Hagen von Tronje. Der Dolchstoss is cited as an important factor in Adolf Hitler's later rise to power, as the Nazi Party grew its original political base largely from embittered WWI veterans, and those who were sympathetic to the Dolchstoss interpretation of Germany's then-recent history."

Look up the Dreyfuss affair in France.

Most don't understand the amount of social upheaval in Germany after WWI and before Hitler came to power. Communists and Nazis were killing each other in the streets.

 

[javaguru]

The Dreyfus Affair,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_Affair

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

The Dreyfus Affair,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_Affair

Thanks I'll definitely check it out. Although I can't help but come to the conclusion that wiki, while certainly good for source material and quick reference, has a regulatory feel to it with politically correct bias that tampers with authenticity and historical accuracy. I've seen pages change like the weather here in MI; some disappearing altogether. Makes a person wonder sometimes. Regardless, there still is a wealth of information on there, independent of how truthful it ultimately is.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

More on Hitler's second book-

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/hitlers-second-book-382090.html

Many of these "evil white supremacist" folk seem to think it a better picture into the mind's eye of Hitler himself.

 

[domoljub]

the germans encountered similar problems as us in Iraq
they blitzed through yugoslavia so fast and capitulated the govt that they didn't "get" enough time to really destroy the army in the field
and these unkilled men would eventually rise up and form a nasty partisan bunch under Tito
so nasty that even the soviets left Tito to himself

same as our experiences in Iraq
we sliced through saddams defenses the took out baghdad in what 3 weeks
most of the Iraqi army ran away

only for many to reappear with their booby trap war
it's not even much of a war per se
in history and measured against other wars/periods

Iraq is not a war,not even a guerilla war
it's a chciken shit booby trap and blow yourself up affair

no one fought for jugoslavia in any war, ever. that jugoslavia that capitulated to hitler was a forced confederration the treaty of versaille was where it all happened. serbia backed by its old friends dating to the times of nobility was awarded the helm. croatia and slovenia and herceg bosna fought valiantly with the germans and as the treaty of versaille was intended to do to all those alligned with germany, they were punished.

partisans were not a force untill allied air drops and support in every which way was given by the british and the americans. partisans were made up in the early periods of the war almost exclusivly of serbs that were upset at the retribution directed to them by slovenians, croats of catholic and muslim faith. with more and more support of the allies in the region, and with the allocation of the croatian coast to the itallians alot of people realized that the best bet to live through everything was to join the partizans.

the partizans were a bunch of bush dwellers, never without the help of the allies would they have stood up to the ustase. i have never seen one historical source to say different .

stalin did not leave the "jugoslavs" to themselves, the split between stalin and tito happened in 1948, when jugoslavia was kicked out of the cominform, well after the end of ww2. i hate tito with a passion, but one thing i admire is he wasnt stalins bitch like the rest of communist occupied europe .

 

[javaguru]

Thanks I'll definitely check it out. Although I can't help but come to the conclusion that wiki, while certainly good for source material and quick reference, has a regulatory feel to it with politically correct bias that tampers with authenticity and historical accuracy. I've seen pages change like the weather here in MI; some disappearing altogether. Makes a person wonder sometimes. Regardless, there still is a wealth of information on there, independent of how truthful it ultimately is.

That's why I always use it as a reference for things I already know about. It's just easier than wasting 10-20 minutes typing essentially what I already would have essentially written myself. I've seen some very poorly written articles. Even texts used in college level have a certain bias when it comes to covering subject matter. American and Japanese racism are not covered at all or simply a footnote in most 100-200 level history courses.
I had to take a WWII class before it was covered to any degree, this was one of our texts;
http://www.amazon.com/War-Without-Mercy-Power-Pacific/dp/0394751728?tag=dogpile-20

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

That's why I always use it as a reference for things I already know about. It's just easier than wasting 10-20 minutes typing essentially what I already would have essentially written myself. I've seen some very poorly written articles. Even texts used in college level have a certain bias when it comes to covering subject matter. American and Japanese racism are not covered at all or simply a footnote in most 100-200 level history courses.
I had to take a WWII class before it was covered to any degree, this was one of our texts;
http://www.amazon.com/War-Without-Mercy-Power-Pacific/dp/0394751728?tag=dogpile-20

Have you seen Flags of Our Fathers or Letters from Iwo Jima? I usually like Eastwood's stuff. Want to see his take on war in the Pacific but have boycotted movie renting. It seems lately I'm better off buying a movie if I want to get through it without it skipping or freezing because some cretin smudged/scratched it up.

 

[javaguru]

Have you seen Flags of Our Fathers or Letters from Iwo Jima? I usually like Eastwood's stuff. Want to see his take on war in the Pacific but have boycotted movie renting. It seems lately I'm better off buying a movie if I want to get through it without it skipping or freezing because some cretin smudged/scratched it up.

You can pass on Flags if you want the Japanese perspective.I've wanted to rent letters myself. I've always enjoyed the "letters" type documentaries.