the greatest armies in the world

[heatherrae]

the country got destroyed because they lost
but germany came damn close to winning
and if they had won germany would be a superpower equal to the US today

and there never would have been a 50 year cold war against the USSR
eastern europe would have prospered instead of being economically stagnated for half a century under the soviets domain

Roosevelt dies and the US govt makes peace with germany as does britian
it's right there in mein kampf how Hitler wanted to ally with the British empire

he hated jews and communists

the jewish people got the short end of the stick
which isn't unusual

personally I'm not anit-semitic
I've studied the 4 arab-Isreali wars starting with the war of independence in 1948
the jews kicked ass and I admire them for their tenacity
and I admire their successful business endeavors

hell my high school was 20-25% Jewish

Damn close only counts in horse shoes. He fucked everything up worse for them. Plus, he butchered millions of people in horrific ways. I can't believe people are arguing his merits.

Shall we discuss that Charles Manson planted some pretty nice veggie gardens, too?

 

[Gambino]

the country got destroyed because they lost
but germany came damn close to winning
and if they had won germany would be a superpower equal to the US today

i dunno bro, i doubt they would've ever had a firm grasp of the east.
even after they blew thru the border towns, yrs later they were still fighting insurgents and rebels.
the germans heavyhanded tactics for displine in this area (for example taking local hostages and killing 10 for 1 german) were a failure.
it would've been near impossible for a longer term german hold

 

[Spartacus]

No, this one is by Hitler himself. If you think it is fake, that is one thing. But, purportedly by the historians who were featured on History channel, it exists. I didn't hear the story incorrectly and remember what was said very well. Perhaps google the story from the history channel for more info on what I am talking about.

I know the History channel is sometimes a piss poor source of info b/c they sensationalize it and dumb everything down, but they most certainly had a show about this unpublished book by Hitler and its contents.

I'll try the history channel
I googled "hitler's memoirs" earlier and the early first page hits were this book by Wagenor or something


Hitler - Memoirs of a Confidant by Henry Ashby Turner
and this review


Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
In 1946, German economist Wagener, then a prisoner of war, wrote these reminiscences of Hitler, whom he advised for years on economic policy and political matters. PW stated that, "World War II, the betrayal of Russia, the Holocaust, everything is here between and beneath the linesall of it instructive reading."
Copyright 1987

 

[heatherrae]

I'll try the history channel
I googled "hitler's memoirs" earlier and the early first page hits were this book by Wagenor or something


Hitler - Memoirs of a Confidant by Henry Ashby Turner
and this review


Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
In 1946, German economist Wagener, then a prisoner of war, wrote these reminiscences of Hitler, whom he advised for years on economic policy and political matters. PW stated that, "World War II, the betrayal of Russia, the Holocaust, everything is here between and beneath the linesall of it instructive reading."
Copyright 1987

I said that I dont recall the title and that it is an unpublished book. Looking for a published book really wont be fruitful.

 

[Spartacus]

Damn close only counts in horse shoes. He fucked everything up worse for them. Plus, he butchered millions of people in horrific ways. I can't believe people are arguing his merits.

Shall we discuss that Charles Manson planted some pretty nice veggie gardens, too?

I'm done with you

 

[heatherrae]

I'm done with you

Here is a reference to the episode on the history channel.

http://military-forums.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4761074/m/694101923

 

[Spartacus]

Here is a reference to the episode on the history channel.

http://military-forums.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4761074/m/694101923

Gerhard Weinberg is Jewish
I hardly expect a balanced and non-biased assessment of adolf from a Jew
not gonna happen

there are several well written books on hitler that are quite thick too
some one hour TV segment is not going to give you any decent understanding

would you write a paper and include a TV program in your bibliography?

I'm not glorifying hitler
I'm just trying to understand him from a dispassionate angle
I'm more into the german military
and it's my opinion that if hitler and his henchmen never appeared on the scene

Germany would have re-armed regardless and still have fought a war with the USSR
Stalin's intentions are well documented
he's the one who really could be said to desire world domination

 

[heatherrae]

Gerhard Weinberg is Jewish
I hardly expect a balanced and non-biased assessment of adolf from a Jew
not gonna happen

there are several well written books on hitler that are quite thick too
some one hour TV segment is not going to give you any decent understanding

would you write a paper and include a TV program in your bibliography?

I'm not glorifying hitler
I'm just trying to understand him from a dispassionate angle
I'm more into the german military
and it's my opinion that if hitler and his henchmen never appeared on the scene

Germany would have re-armed regardless and still have fought a war with the USSR
Stalin's intentions are well documented
he's the one who really could be said to desire world domination

You argued that there was no such book. I said that there was. I didn't base my comments about hitler on that book. However, in watching the program, they did directly quote passages from Hitler in which he discussed plans to attack America.

I'm not writing a thesis, but if I were, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to include a source other than a book. The use of secondary sources is well established. However, instead of insulting my academic abilities, which you must assume are somehow inferior or lacking, how about we stay on topic?

Your arguments about Germany eventually rearming, etc. are pretty lame. Really, why not measure the man based upon what he accomplished or failed to accomplish. No matter how you try to spin it, he caused Germany great harm and killed millions of innocent people.

 

[Spartacus]

I stand corrected
it's known as "the second book"
interesting
basically hitler sees the USA as a "dangerous foe"

from wikopedia

There are a number of similarities and differences between Zweites Buch and Mein Kampf. Turning towards the former first, as in Mein Kampf, Hitler declared that the Jews were his eternal and most dangerous opponents. As in Mein Kampf, Hitler outlined what the German historian Andreas Hillgruber has called his Stufenplan (Stage by stage plan). Hitler himself never used the term Stufenplan, which was coined by Hillgruber in his 1965 book Hitlers Strategie. Briefly, the Stufenplan called for three stages. In the first stage, there would be a massive military build-up, the overthrow of the “shackles” of the Treaty of Versailles, and the forming of alliances with Fascist Italy and the British Empire. The second stage would be a series of fast, lightning wars in conjunction with Italy and Britain against France and whichever of her allies in Eastern Europe such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, and Yugoslavia chose to stand by her. The third stage would be a war to obliterate what Hitler considered to be the “Judeo-Bolshevik” regime in the Soviet Union.

One way in which Zweites Buch differs from Mein Kampf is that in Zweites Buch, Hitler added a fourth stage to the Stufenplan. In Zweites Buch, Hitler announced that around 1980 the final struggle for world domination would take place between the United States and the now Greater Germany allied with the British Empire. The most spectacular difference between Mein Kampf and Zweites Buch is in Hitler’s views regarding the United States. In Mein Kampf, Hitler declared that Germany’s most dangerous opponent on the international scene was the Soviet Union. In Zweites Buch, Hitler declared that for immediate purposes, the Soviet Union was still the most dangerous opponent, but that in the long-term, the most dangerous potential opponent was the United States. Beyond that, Hitler’s views on the United States changed dramatically between 1924 and 1928.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler rarely mentioned the United States and when he did, it was in a tone of deep contempt. In Mein Kampf, Hitler portrayed the United States as a “racially degenerate” society on its way to self-oblivion. By contrast, in Zweites Buch, Hitler portrayed the U.S. as a dynamic, “racially successful” society that practiced eugenics and segregation and followed what Hitler considered to be a wise policy of excluding “racially degenerate” immigration from eastern and southern Europe. What promoted the change in Hitler's views between 1924 and 1928 is not known. By 1928, Hitler seems to have heard about the massive industrial wealth of the U.S., the Immigration Act of 1924, segregation and the fact that several American states had eugenics boards to sterilize people who were considered mentally defective, and was favorably impressed. Hitler proclaimed his admiration for these sorts of policies and expressed his wish that Germany would do similar things, though on a much greater scale.

Of all Germany’s potential enemies, Hitler ranked the United States as the most dangerous. By contrast, Hitler saw the United Kingdom as a fellow “Aryan” power that in exchange for Germany's renunciation of naval and colonial ambitions would ally itself with Germany. France in Hitler’s opinion, was rapidly “Negroizing” itself. In regards to the Soviet Union, Hitler dismissed the Russian people as being Slavic Untermensch (sub-humans) incapable of any sort of intelligent thought. Hitler consequently believed that the Russian people were ruled over by what he regarded as a gang of bloodthirsty but inept Jewish revolutionaries. By contrast, the majority of Americans were in Hitler’s view “Aryans”, albeit Aryans ruled by what Hitler saw as a Jewish plutocracy. In Hitler’s point of view, the combination of “Aryan” might coupled with “Jewish rule” was what made the U.S. so dangerous.

Only two copies of the original 200 page manuscript were made, and only one of these copies has ever been made public. Zweites Buch was not published in 1928 as Mein Kampf was not selling well, and Hitler's publisher informed him that having two books out would depress sales even further. By the time Mein Kampf started to sell well after the September 1930 Reichstag elections, Hitler decided that Zweites Buch revealed too much of his foreign policy goals. Kept strictly secret under Hitler's orders, the document was placed in a safe inside an air raid shelter in 1935 where it remained until its discovery by an American officer in 1945. The authenticity of the book was verified by Josef Berg, a former employee of the Nazi publishing house Eher Verlag and Telford Taylor, the former Brigadier General U.S.A.R. and Chief Counsel at the Nuremberg war-crimes trials. The book was neither edited nor published during the Nazi Germany era and remains known as Zweites Buch translated as "Second Book". The Zweites Buch was first discovered in the Nazi archives being held in the United States by the German-born Jewish American historian Gerhard Weinberg in 1958. Unable to find an American publisher, Weinberg turned to his Jewish mentor Hans Rothfels and his associate Martin Broszat at the Institute of Contemporary History in Munich, who published Zweites Buch in 1961 in German. Rothfels was immensely pleased by his protégé’s discovery and wrote the foreword to the 1961 edition. A pirated edition was translated into English and published in New York in 1962. The first authoritative English edition was not published until 2003 as Hitler's Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kampf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweites_Buch

 

[heatherrae]

I stand corrected
it's known as "the second book"
interesting
basically hitler sees the USA as a "dangerous foe"

from wikopedia

There are a number of similarities and differences between Zweites Buch and Mein Kampf. Turning towards the former first, as in Mein Kampf, Hitler declared that the Jews were his eternal and most dangerous opponents. As in Mein Kampf, Hitler outlined what the German historian Andreas Hillgruber has called his Stufenplan (Stage by stage plan). Hitler himself never used the term Stufenplan, which was coined by Hillgruber in his 1965 book Hitlers Strategie. Briefly, the Stufenplan called for three stages. In the first stage, there would be a massive military build-up, the overthrow of the “shackles” of the Treaty of Versailles, and the forming of alliances with Fascist Italy and the British Empire. The second stage would be a series of fast, lightning wars in conjunction with Italy and Britain against France and whichever of her allies in Eastern Europe such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, and Yugoslavia chose to stand by her. The third stage would be a war to obliterate what Hitler considered to be the “Judeo-Bolshevik” regime in the Soviet Union.

One way in which Zweites Buch differs from Mein Kampf is that in Zweites Buch, Hitler added a fourth stage to the Stufenplan. In Zweites Buch, Hitler announced that around 1980 the final struggle for world domination would take place between the United States and the now Greater Germany allied with the British Empire. The most spectacular difference between Mein Kampf and Zweites Buch is in Hitler’s views regarding the United States. In Mein Kampf, Hitler declared that Germany’s most dangerous opponent on the international scene was the Soviet Union. In Zweites Buch, Hitler declared that for immediate purposes, the Soviet Union was still the most dangerous opponent, but that in the long-term, the most dangerous potential opponent was the United States. Beyond that, Hitler’s views on the United States changed dramatically between 1924 and 1928.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler rarely mentioned the United States and when he did, it was in a tone of deep contempt. In Mein Kampf, Hitler portrayed the United States as a “racially degenerate” society on its way to self-oblivion. By contrast, in Zweites Buch, Hitler portrayed the U.S. as a dynamic, “racially successful” society that practiced eugenics and segregation and followed what Hitler considered to be a wise policy of excluding “racially degenerate” immigration from eastern and southern Europe. What promoted the change in Hitler's views between 1924 and 1928 is not known. By 1928, Hitler seems to have heard about the massive industrial wealth of the U.S., the Immigration Act of 1924, segregation and the fact that several American states had eugenics boards to sterilize people who were considered mentally defective, and was favorably impressed. Hitler proclaimed his admiration for these sorts of policies and expressed his wish that Germany would do similar things, though on a much greater scale.

Of all Germany’s potential enemies, Hitler ranked the United States as the most dangerous. By contrast, Hitler saw the United Kingdom as a fellow “Aryan” power that in exchange for Germany's renunciation of naval and colonial ambitions would ally itself with Germany. France in Hitler’s opinion, was rapidly “Negroizing” itself. In regards to the Soviet Union, Hitler dismissed the Russian people as being Slavic Untermensch (sub-humans) incapable of any sort of intelligent thought. Hitler consequently believed that the Russian people were ruled over by what he regarded as a gang of bloodthirsty but inept Jewish revolutionaries. By contrast, the majority of Americans were in Hitler’s view “Aryans”, albeit Aryans ruled by what Hitler saw as a Jewish plutocracy. In Hitler’s point of view, the combination of “Aryan” might coupled with “Jewish rule” was what made the U.S. so dangerous.

Only two copies of the original 200 page manuscript were made, and only one of these copies has ever been made public. Zweites Buch was not published in 1928 as Mein Kampf was not selling well, and Hitler's publisher informed him that having two books out would depress sales even further. By the time Mein Kampf started to sell well after the September 1930 Reichstag elections, Hitler decided that Zweites Buch revealed too much of his foreign policy goals. Kept strictly secret under Hitler's orders, the document was placed in a safe inside an air raid shelter in 1935 where it remained until its discovery by an American officer in 1945. The authenticity of the book was verified by Josef Berg, a former employee of the Nazi publishing house Eher Verlag and Telford Taylor, the former Brigadier General U.S.A.R. and Chief Counsel at the Nuremberg war-crimes trials. The book was neither edited nor published during the Nazi Germany era and remains known as Zweites Buch translated as "Second Book". The Zweites Buch was first discovered in the Nazi archives being held in the United States by the German-born Jewish American historian Gerhard Weinberg in 1958. Unable to find an American publisher, Weinberg turned to his Jewish mentor Hans Rothfels and his associate Martin Broszat at the Institute of Contemporary History in Munich, who published Zweites Buch in 1961 in German. Rothfels was immensely pleased by his protégé’s discovery and wrote the foreword to the 1961 edition. A pirated edition was translated into English and published in New York in 1962. The first authoritative English edition was not published until 2003 as Hitler's Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kampf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweites_Buch

yes, and he said that we were only growing stronger and stronger by the day and that he would have to invade as soon as possible or it would be impossible to defeat us.


Also, I am LOL'ing that you would lament my referring to a book I heard about on the history channel as not being bibliography worthy material, and you liberally use wikipedia.