Strength without Size or Size without Strength ? ?

[atown777]

Have you ever seen these little dudes at the gym who are skinny as hell and lifting pretty serious weight around with good form?

Are they on tren? what the hell? I mean Im not talking about a guy with a decent muscle base on his frame I am talking about the dude with 14 inch arms, no chest, no shoulders, ribs showing thru his shirt and benching 250 lbs with good form.

I know most people would agree that in order to get bigger you have to get stronger ......but sometimes people just keep getting stronger without their muscles growing? how is this possible?

There are a handful of dudes I see at my gym and it's like they are getting stronger and stronger but they arent getting bigger. And they dont train with each other so they cant all be on tren. In fact I would say that none of them are even juicing because they dont have any muscle on them! Is that just genetics?

 

[C Manson]

it also works the other way though because theres people at my gym who are big guys who cant lift weights for shit.

 

[atown777]

it also works the other way though because theres people at my gym who are big guys who cant lift weights for shit.

exactly true as well that is why I titled the thread Strength without Size or Size without Strength because it works both ways. I see some big guys and not as in "fat" i mean i also see some seriously built dudes who are very weak and obviously not in contest prep and not dieting and not just lifting light for the hell of it. Just like C Manson said some guys are jacked and cant lift poundages for shit..

 

[Ezekiel]

Sooo true... There is a guy at my gym who is hella small and he benches 3 plates a side!! I'm like wtf!!

 

[Big_BK]

Alot has to do with genetics, even if they are juicing its only gonna untap what they are genetically made for if you know what im saying. I outlift pretty much every person regardless of size at my gym when it comes to legs but i could be out benched by a 150lbs kid!

 

[C Manson]

i guess it has a lot to do with genetics but in a different way that i struggle through squats cos im 6.5 its the actually muscle tissue itself.

 

[cuts82]

HAHA this is so funny cause i was thinkin the same thing the other day! there is this dude that trains the same time as me most days , just a average looking guy in Clothes you wouldnt think he lifts, any way the guy is strong as fuck! i cant belive it.
But it means shit how strong you are . id take size and shape over strength any day

 

[maxspeed96ct]

ya i wonderded the same thing before.

I on the other hand have huge bi's and tri's. Shoulders are bad either.
Ive been this way since I started lifting.


But my chest or traps are impossible for me to gain size on...

 

[SaiBoT]

This has more to do with neurological efficiency and fyber makeup, they gain more strength through neural adaptation, which often occurs with low rep training, nevertheless diet plays a huge role on this too, most this guys don't eat for growing and there are also others who don't know nothing about bulking and would love to be bigger.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Not necessarily. If you're gauging being "stronger" on the amount of weight lifted.

Strength encompasses many things. e.g. curling 100 pounds at a 5 second pace takes more strength than curling 90 pounds at a 2 second pace.

Strength is also more than muscle contraction.

This is a whole debate in itself.

Bottom line, some people have the mechanics to be strong. It has little to do with bodybuilding. If you work out, you'll get stronger, but exactly "HOW STRONG" has nothing to do with ultimate musculature.

 

[cuts82]

Not necessarily. If you're gauging being "stronger" on the amount of weight lifted.

Strength encompasses many things. e.g. curling 100 pounds at a 5 second pace takes more strength than curling 90 pounds at a 2 second pace.

Strength is also more than muscle contraction.

This is a whole debate in itself.

Bottom line, some people have the mechanics to be strong. It has little to do with bodybuilding. If you work out, you'll get stronger, but exactly "HOW STRONG" has nothing to do with ultimate musculature.

Exactly, its not like there is a specific weight you can lift for a body part that will ensure its big eg- squating 800 or benching 405 . i know numerous people that can squat more then me but i still got bigger legs then them and they cant understand it. honestly i dropped the ego about a year into training and realised that if i didnt focus on using perfect form and feelin my muscles work then i would get nowhere or wined up injured. best thing i ever did!

 

[Domimar]

all i know is, when im at the beach, chicks dont ask how much i bench, they just want to know how big my arms are. I rather be bigger then stronger, but the way i am is just as strong as i am big. Im definetly even.

 

[Heath82]

all i know is, when im at the beach, chicks dont ask how much i bench, they just want to know how big my arms are. I rather be bigger then stronger, but the way i am is just as strong as i am big. Im definetly even.

same here. bench press dont walk down my street!

 

[xavier_247]

I'm the opposite, I've been decently balanced my entire life and my strength matches my size on most part. I would like to be the complete opposite where on one has any idea what I'm packing. That inner strength and silent power is everything because after a lifetime of being big, the grass is always greener on the other side for many people. I would love to be quality lean but have ridiculous strength behind me. Laughing in my head when I work out because no matter how big another is I know that I am not exactly tiny but I possess massive power that these dudes can't fathom having regardless of the amount of juice they're on.

 

[bblazer]

I'm built like an offensive lineman. There is no way I could ever compete in BBing. But I have always had what my dad calls "farm boy strength." Even before I took up going to the gym.

There are some really big and hard guys at my gym. Classic BBing physiques. If you looked at them you would think that they could twist me up and throw me away. But I am constantly amazes at how little iron they actually can move.

It is a subject I have always wanted to really learn about, but just haven't dug into it. My initial guess would be differences in how the actual muscle fibers are "put together" that vary from person to person.

B-

 

[sensational]

Not necessarily. If you're gauging being "stronger" on the amount of weight lifted.

Strength encompasses many things. e.g. curling 100 pounds at a 5 second pace takes more strength than curling 90 pounds at a 2 second pace.

Strength is also more than muscle contraction.

This is a whole debate in itself.

Bottom line, some people have the mechanics to be strong. It has little to do with bodybuilding. If you work out, you'll get stronger, but exactly "HOW STRONG" has nothing to do with ultimate musculature.

Incorrect. It has been proven, many many many times, that all other factors being equal, the muscle with the larger diameter will always have a more forceful maximal muscle contraction.

Factors affecting strength:
1. Neural pathways, some are more developed
2. Muscle diameter
3. Having an optimal stretch at the beginning of the lift so the crossbrigdes of the muscle fiber (Actin and myosin) are maximally aligned.

There you have it. So, you think, bodybuilders should always be the strongest then? Not necessarily. Training with heavy weights develops more complex neural pathways that allow for a more systematic and more complete muscular contraction. While a bodybuilder might "Feel" like he is giving 100% when in reality his body is not trained to be able to fire at 100% at any given time, so only 80% is produced..

Thus we are left with a lot of myths.

 

[RADAR]

Not necessarily. If you're gauging being "stronger" on the amount of weight lifted.

Strength encompasses many things. e.g. curling 100 pounds at a 5 second pace takes more strength than curling 90 pounds at a 2 second pace.

Strength is also more than muscle contraction.

This is a whole debate in itself.

Bottom line, some people have the mechanics to be strong. It has little to do with bodybuilding. If you work out, you'll get stronger, but exactly "HOW STRONG" has nothing to do with ultimate musculature.

I Agree! Last yr I had my roof replaced due to a tornado, there was this tiny guy picking up 3 squares of roofing shingles throwing them on his shoulder going up the ladder, I was like WTF???? The squirt looked to weigh barely 135 lbs.
do something long enough and you will get good at it!

RADAR

 

[Varga]

When I first started lifting I can remember how when I benched 225 for few reps I felt like it weigh a TON....lol
Now it's light as hell and it feels more like what 135 used to feel. I think this is just plain old adaptation....you keep at it with a certain weight or exercise sooner or later your body will adjust but not necessarely get bigger...in all cases.
And I've def seen my friend bench 225 and have more developed chest than me, and I warm up with that weight....go fuck in figure....

 

[needtogetaas]

Have you ever seen these little dudes at the gym who are skinny as hell and lifting pretty serious weight around with good form?

Are they on tren? what the hell? I mean Im not talking about a guy with a decent muscle base on his frame I am talking about the dude with 14 inch arms, no chest, no shoulders, ribs showing thru his shirt and benching 250 lbs with good form.

I know most people would agree that in order to get bigger you have to get stronger ......but sometimes people just keep getting stronger without their muscles growing? how is this possible?

There are a handful of dudes I see at my gym and it's like they are getting stronger and stronger but they arent getting bigger. And they dont train with each other so they cant all be on tren. In fact I would say that none of them are even juicing because they dont have any muscle on them! Is that just genetics?

  Muscle Size Proportional to Strength?

 

[ryno9000]

all i know is, when im at the beach, chicks dont ask how much i bench, they just want to know how big my arms are. I rather be bigger then stronger, but the way i am is just as strong as i am big. Im definetly even.

I'm not calling you names and not trying to insult, but I laughed when I read this cuz it is kind of a douchy quote. It's sig material for sure Welcome to EF by the way!

This is a good thread! I'm just happy that right now I am at my all time biggest for myself, and people who have known be give me warm congrats on my progress. My strength is up there, but I know I am not even close to the biggest or strongest at my gym.

 

[chazk]

I have noticed alot of the stronger guys that look like they don't even lift usually have very bad diets and just come into the gym and lift .
If they had better diets and higher protien intake they would build muscle to match their strenght.

I was the same way in my early 20's benched all the time squated alot and nurologically my body got stronger pound for pound
but it wasnt till i relized 80% of muscle growth maybe even higher is all in the diet ( protien ,calorie intake ) ingesting more food then they burn off and enough protien to build muscle then keep the muscle as storage tanks rather then gas tanks running on empty

 

[RADAR]

I have noticed alot of the stronger guys that look like they don't even lift usually have very bad diets and just come into the gym and lift .
If they had better diets and higher protien intake they would build muscle to match their strenght.

I was the same way in my early 20's benched all the time squated alot and nurologically my body got stronger pound for pound
but it wasnt till i relized 80% of muscle growth maybe even higher is all in the diet ( protien ,calorie intake ) ingesting more food then they burn off and enough protien to build muscle then keep the muscle as storage tanks rather then gas tanks running on empty

Yep! I have guy's in the gym who have been training for several years and still look the same when they started!


Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

RADAR

 

[eClenbuterol]

Also leverage, like if you have shorter limbs. Which also means less distance traveled.

 

[OneBreath]

Exactly, its not like there is a specific weight you can lift for a body part that will ensure its big eg- squating 800 or benching 405 . i know numerous people that can squat more then me but i still got bigger legs then them and they cant understand it. honestly i dropped the ego about a year into training and realised that if i didnt focus on using perfect form and feelin my muscles work then i would get nowhere or wined up injured. best thing i ever did!

You're a wise man. I'm just now coming around to this. In the last 2 weeks i've dropped the ego and weight, concentrated on the mind/muscle connection, and implemented a SLOW negative on each rep.

I've been FUCKING SORE! And no worries for injury either.

 

[the_alcatraz]

In a perfect and ideal world, strength is directly related to mass.

However, realistically, you can have a tiny guy stronger than a moutain of muscles.

 

[79steeler]

Tendon strength must have something to do with this also.

I see a dude in the gym doing the leg sled with eight 45's on each side and his legs are only average. Hard to believe.

Highschool kids in my gym can squat amazing amount of weight, but have skinny legs and usually bad form. Still alot of weight though.

 

[rockdoc]

ya i wonderded the same thing before.

I on the other hand have huge bi's and tri's. Shoulders are bad either.
Ive been this way since I started lifting.


But my chest or traps are impossible for me to gain size on...

I have the opposite problem. Chest, traps, and shoulders grow just looking at weights but its very hard for me to put any size on my arms.

 

[SaiBoT]

I want everything!!!

 

[10001110101]

yeah cns adaptation, creatine phosphate levels, type I vs. II fibers, these all have a lot to do with it but the biggest reason is simply mechanical advantage.

short limbs have more leverage, actually your whole body shape has a lot to do with how strong you are and strong in what areas.

for example a 135 pound chimpanzee can outlift any human being alive (i think they can do 1000 lb single leg press, can bench something like 800+ pounds) simply because of the skeletal structure and way muscles/ligaments are attached. they don't have bigger or stronger muscles but they have a lot better leverage.

humans have pretty shitty mechanical advantage which is why we must use tools and logic to survive.

 

[wolfman87]

i'm one of these skinny strong guys yall are talking about. the really weird thing is i eat like a mule. anything i see i will eat (except for tomatoes and onions) along with 2 protein shakes a day, i'm almost literally never full, i just get tired of putting food in my mouth after about 45 minutes. now i'm not super skinny but my arms are only 16.5 inches but i bench the same as my workout partner who has 40+ pounds on me. i did ask my doctor a few years ago why i could do this and he said i have strong tendons... go figure.

i'll be the first to admit my diet isn't clean 100% of the time but i don't eat any sweets or drink any sodas or things of that nature. the last time i had a coke i got heart burn like bitch and i haven't had chocolate in almost 3 months. i do have the occasional whopper but it's no big deal with my metabolism. just giving you an idea of how i'm eating.

 

[Nelson Montana]

The topic seems to have morphed a bit, but here's one for ya...

On certain movements, I'm pretty strong. I do 150 lb barbell curls and I'll do the rack with low rows while guys who've got 50 pounds on me struggle. Meanwhile my bench is pitiful. I mean, barely average. Always was, now matter how much I worked on it. And now with a bum shoulder I don't even risk going beyond pussy poundages. Yet, I can still work my chest and it looks pretty good if I say so myself. THAT, is what bodybuilding is all about.

 

[Varga]

yeah cns adaptation, creatine phosphate levels, type I vs. II fibers, these all have a lot to do with it but the biggest reason is simply mechanical advantage.

short limbs have more leverage, actually your whole body shape has a lot to do with how strong you are and strong in what areas.

for example a 135 pound chimpanzee can outlift any human being alive (i think they can do 1000 lb single leg press, can bench something like 800+ pounds) simply because of the skeletal structure and way muscles/ligaments are attached. they don't have bigger or stronger muscles but they have a lot better leverage.

humans have pretty shitty mechanical advantage which is why we must use tools and logic to survive.

I agree dude, it has to do with CNS adaptation. I think the reason is heavy for most ppl is for self preservation. Imagine if the nervous system would allow us to lift at our own discreation, i can't imagine the damage to our bodies that will cause when ppl will just do random heavy weights.
I also think that there is some corelation between the brain, muscle and tendons that needs to be satisfied in order to do heavier weights.
I personally have seen my progression over the years and I can tell you that certain drugs really either speed up the process or took the brakes off the CNS....not sure which but I'm making more progress now that I did when I was 20. My nervous system just doesn't get taxed in the gym like it used to, which just blows me away. I can go and bench with the 150lb DBs without even breaking a sweat...scary