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Stephan Korte's 3x3 First Week Progress and Apologies to All!

super_rice

super_rice

New member
I wholeheartedly apologize for not having keeping up with my promise, to consistently update my journal as I go through Korte's 3x3, as I don't think many here have tried this program yet (man, jump on the 5x5 bandwagon already if you haven't). I have been documenting it meticulously, but only in my "real life journal," if you will. I've started to document a lot more stuff by feel (CCJ - you're my hero! Sorry I haven't been reading for a while though, I love your power steering RPE measuring system :p).

OK: Some stuff I'd like to address.

This is my first week of Korte's 3x3. For my projected weights, I bumped more than what was originally laid out in the program because my lifts are raw, and I am a newbie, so (hopefully) my gains will be a little more drastic.

Bench:
240
Olympic Backsquat:
330
Conventional Deadlift:
370

5'8, 179, 17yrs

Now, Korte specifically talked about making slight adjustments to each day's workout.

I have the following down:

Monday: Close Grip Bench | Regular Backsquat | Deadlift Off 6" Platform
Wednesday: Regular Grip Bench | Rest Pause Backsquat | Conventional Deadlift
Friday: Wide Grip Bench | Regular Backsquat | Stiff Legged Deadlift

Currently, I am using 7 sets for each of the exercises. I plan on using 7 sets all next week till I get to the third week and then will attempt to add volume, going on to 8 sets of each exercise. (Abandon all hope) Good news is, workouts are taking less than 2 hours, around 1hour 45. A little longer with the squats rest paused (I am shit with the pause but I thought I'd throw them in for fun).


Alrighty, so one week in, and it got a little shotty when I did the squats rest paused, but I think I can pull through. Thank god for the smolov preparatory cycle, EVERYONE DO IT GODDAMNIT, your fitness level goes up five fold if you aren't used to it.

I'm waiting eagerly for any opportunities to add in more volume. Currently the only extra volume I can take are morning technique workouts oly style, working up to a ~60% snatch singles, and some oly stuff before the session.

All is well at current time, and believe me, this thing will kick your ass! The first session was hella easy, but then I got the idea in my head to throw in the wide grip bench, rest paused squats, deadlift platform, etc!

Hopefully, my work will result in, well, results!


OKAY. NOW I ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION

I think it will be necessary to add in a straight deloading week at the end of four weeks, because I will be trashed. I am planning a sleepathon, eatathon (not that it already hasn't been) of 1 week with 3 sessions light oly work, and then the kortes style days except in a 3x3 scheme at 60% intensity.

Thoughts?

To clarify, I would make one of the unload days like this:

(drop all modifications ie: rest pause)
Bench 60% 3x3
Squat 75% 1x2
Deadlift 60% 3x3

and the 1x2 @80% will be for bench and deadlift on the other two days. similar to the regular kortes except i just get an extra week with lighter intensity.

thanks for all replies!
 
so any opinions on the extra unload week?

and a little update: i woke up this morning and my entire lower body is a wreck. i have a topical nsaid and it has saved my life. right now i'm massaging and icing until my session. turns out i may be mentally and for the most part physically prepared but my joints are being a bitch. i thought young people didn't have this problem :\
 
It seemed to me that the program was kind of deloading by dropping back to 60% for the two support exercises on any given day during the intensity phase. I haven't done the Korte yet, though, so that's just speculation.
 
yes i know what you mean, that is what is meant i think.

problem is i don't know if i can handle the first one or two session following the four week loading. 5x5 is good, as the intensity first week has you already fairly recovered (at least mentally) from the loading phase, so you can handle a bit of a load. however, the first couple of sessions in korte's will have you under a lot of stress from the loading and having a lift in the 80%. i'm sure the workout would feel like nothing, and probably take less than 40 minutes to complete though, just not too sure about the first couple of sessions.

this program is refreshing though, finding out how far i can take the loading volume/intensity. it BETTER freaking pay off at the end. it's 10 times harder than the pendlay/madcow 5x5 in my opinion. personally i don't find the volume phases very fun, as i don't get to lift heavy weight.

oh, read the stuff by wade hanna, some good feedback there. anyone know if stephan korte is still active in the world?
 
I think that's a good idea.

And don't be so rigid an follow the plan exactly listen to your body and autoregulate things. Every person is different, some people just overreach with less and sooner.

I would keep the deload week as just two or even one workout. And 3x3 with those sort of loads almost seems like a waste of time :)
personally I would just go in and load up 50% on the bar and do a couple of sets of
10-15 to get the blood flow in there, which acts a bit like tempo work for CNS recovery and call it a day. Just 2 sessions in that week
 
thanks for the input. i will see how eerything plays out in the fourth week.

my body is adjusting to the spike in workload alright, it seems after each session recovery is faster and the workout itself is easier. my back is a little bit sore still though, i definately did something to it. i think that back rounding is taking a toll on me, i will have to tighten up my form a bit, or perhaps not go as deep until i get some oly shoes or when/if my flexibility improves.
 
As for form...

I'm finding that as I have been especially attentive to keeping upright on squat my workout-to-workout recovery seems to be improving even while the weights increase (my limiting factor has been lower back for as long as I can remember- sports, lifting, whatever). I was sure I was going to need to shift to a 2x/week scheme for weeks 8/9 of 5x5 but it's wednesday and I'm ready to go. So, my .02 would be to tighten form up (particularly as it relates to your lower back) and see if the same result occurs for you.
 
Yeah, I squat in oly shoes most of the time
you can stay much more upright and that will hit the VMO much better, they feel super stable, most people can squat deeper in it, without taxing out the ankle rom
or it can allow you to sit back much more if you wnat, to tear up the hammies.

you can get them from lots of places, do a search on google. Addidas oly shoes are the most popular but expensive, but they last a long time if you keep off rough floors
 
I found a pair of $60 Adidas olympic lifting shoes, but there are others on the same site for $100-$160. Would a $60 pair work fine?

Is putting 10 lb. plates underneath your heels while squatting as effective? I've heard of many doing this, but wasn't sure if it's as viable.
 
yes

well it's not as safe or as stable, not the same arch support, and definitely not as stable when walking out the loads, plus you can't really sit back with plates...

hard to vary the stance with with plates...and you can't do olys in em!
 
I've been thinking about a pair too. But they're not optimal for deads are they?

And I may wait til my squat gets better - I'd feel kind of funny with $100 shoes and a 10 cent squat ;)

Tom: were these online somewhere? Link?
 
A decent site for OL shoes and equipment, they had some great prices on discontinued lines recently not sure if any are still available that aren't oddball sizes - some great aricles for reading a books in the Sportivny Press section (products and then all the way on the bottom right)
http://www.dynamic-eleiko.com/

It looks like the Wichita Falls Weightlifting site is under construction at the moment but Glenn Pendlay has imported some Polish and Chinese shoes before. They are decent quality and low priced http://www.wichitafallsweightlifting.com.

You could also inquire at http://www.goheavy.com/forums/olympic/. Glenn is a mod there and I'm sure others can clue you into good deals on shoes. Be aware that they might not be so stylish although the Adidas ones of late have been an improvement.
 
I deadlift in olyshoes too! :)
But I don't deadlift powerlifter style though.

feels good for military presses as well.
Anything you want to feel super stable and solid in
 
Obviously! :FRlol: I meant, what's the olylifting form? I believe you said it was a narrowed stance with shoulders over the bar at the start of the lift, no? Bar really close to the shins or away from them?
 
Hips down lower, hookgrip/double overhand grip, shoulders over the bar, back straight, shoudlers pulled back and locked tight

strict form using the hammies more to pull the weight up, rather than just lowerback and glutes.
You lift by driving the heels into the floor. The bar path is vertical, the knees move of the way when done properly, although the knees don't really go over the bar that much anyway. And the bar never touches the shins or knee, even though the bar is within an inch of the shins. Well it never does for me, I never tear my shins up, plus I line up shins to the smooth part :)

You can't lift as much weight as the "powerlifter" style, but it has much better benefits for sport applicable power/strength and musclemass gains
Plus the chances of hurting your lower back are pretty much a non-issue, either the weight comes off the floor or it gets nailed down.

This would be a clean deadlift style, there is also a snatch grip deadlift style as well which is a bit different due to the wider grip and lower starting position. Need good flexibilty in the posterior chain to get a proper start position.

basicly like doing an olylift, the start position anyway.
 
Coolcolj-
that sounds like how I deadlift. I haven't touched my shins in a long time and my hips are very low to initiate the movement. I make a point of my shoulders being directly over the bar and arms perpendicular to the ground.

Does that mean I'm leaving a lot on the table in terms of raw dl weight? The goal of my training is to get strong on the big 3. Style (to me) is irrelevant.

EDIT: Also I feel dl's in my hams like mad and apologies to super rice- I'll start my own thread next time I have a question that has nothing to do with your journal.
 
ther eis a longer range of motion and less leverage at the floor when deadlifting like this

it all depends on the person, but if you see anyone trying to deadlift more weight they can handle with hitching and all, look at how it's usually done. Stiff legged style with upper back rounded, shoulders forward, and leaning back :)

Now if they did it strictly, in a cleandeadlift style, you could probbaly take 40lbs off the bar
 
Speaking of deadlift style, I ran across this from Matt Reynolds:

Also, on the deadlifts, sumo deadlifting is not real deadlifting. It has some merit, but I wouldn't really use it much at all unless I was competing at powerlifting and pulling sumo. It can be a good assistance exercise for your hips, hamstrings, and glutes but pulling conventional (and especially of standing on a 2-3" box or plate) will induce much more strength and size gains overall.
Click to expand...

I sumo dead :(

I know where he's coming from, ROM is shorter with sumo and low back doesn't get worked as much (actually, that's why I chose it for now).

But I'm sure my conventional is at least 50lbs? less than my sumo.

I do cleans using the narrow stance, though.

super_rice: sorry for hijacking the thread!
 
My opinion, and I know I'm not alone in this, is that for many body types the sumo provides the best mechanical advantage to utlize functional strength while the conventional is the best developer of overall functional strength. Now for a pure competitive PL application, obviously you favor and train whichever provides you the best results (ironically, although sumo mechanics favor a broader range of people a lot of the best pullers have pulled conventional). All that said, even for dedicated PL, I'd bet a lot of people would find it advantageous to incorporate conventional pulling or OL variants for at least part of the year.
 
I like the sound of your deadlifting style, CCJ. I think I'll give it a shot. Any links with pictures or anything, so I can have a friend check my form?
 
I deadlift conventional and it sounds like CCJ describes. I clean from the same position I dead from. Am I probably doing one of them wrong or, at least, submaximally?

Sorry from me too, Super_Rice. :)
 
yeah you bastards :)

anyway to add fuel to the fire, i deadlift the same way i clean too. started off with a RDL type movement.

as far as my korte's program, i've ddropped the rest paused squats, and changed the 7 sets of 5 squats to 12 sets of 3 as per advice of Rodney Wood. i don't know about his little gin and raisin mix though...
 
Hey guys, some updates on my progress.

I've gone up and went wild with upping the weights in the last week and a half. It's really ridiculous, I think the gains are because I'm not experienced. I'm feeling superhuman right about now, because my work capacity keeps going up, and I almost feel completely recovered after one day's rest - even with the extra oly technique workouts and snatch single days I've been putting in (totally unrelated but it's really cool how much crap I seem to be able to handle now).

To put into perspective how I have been gaining:

- All the percentages are based on current 1RMs but projected with +10lbs on bench, +25lbs on squats, and +15 on deads. I however, went ass wild (or so I thought) and did +20lbs on bench, +35 on squats, and +25 on deads.
- Basically, after wednesday of last week, everytime I hit an easy weight, the next workout I bumped it up TEN pounds... I'm not very good with volume, in fact I hate it, so it was amazing how my body responded... to 40-46 reps!!!!!!!

IE:

Today's Supposed Session---->What I actually did today:
CG Bench: 8x6 155lbs ----------> 175lbs
Oly Backsquat: 14x3 210lbs ----------> 245lbs?!
Clean Dead off platform: 8x5 235s ----------> 255lbs (hook grip!)


I could dead more, but the problem is, by the third set of deads, I start getting massive lower back cramps... even though this much better than before as I got them at the first or second set of squats, the speed at which I need to complete all the sets is stopping me from lifting more weight.

At this rate, I may backsquat 405 pretty damn soon!

Erm yes.. anyway, two big concerns:

- I have decided against doing the Smolov switching phase as an extra deload week. Rather, I will just finish the program as suggested, I think going from 46 reps to 9 reps is deloading enough.
- Should I RECALCULATE the weights in the second phase to accomadate for my new found strength? This is a part of Smolov that is very cool, and doesn't seem to get reflected in other programs. I firmly think I should....
** I feel like I can load for another week. Am I insane?
 
that workout messed me up bigtime, i went to sleep at 11:30pm, got up at 11:45am. more than 12 hours of sleep. i'm still tired, i think i'm going to go warm up, stretch, eat then hit the sack again
 
Hey rice, maybe I missed it but where did the 14 sets of 3 for squats come from? I thought loading was 6-8 sets x 5 reps at ~60% of projected max.

I guess the loading's about the same, I was just curious.

Also, are you saying you're bumping the weights up from workout to workout instead of week to week?
 
Also congrats on the hook grip. I much prefer it myself and find it a lot more comfortable than the mixed grip.

Jim beat me to the questions.
 
the loading is changed because i was having a bit of trouble with my back and the high reps. doesn't really matter though, 245 14x3 is enough freakin volume for me :)

the hook grip, i'm using as much as i can. i used it straight for a week and a half, it was great, but it started to get a bit painful so now i alternate, couple of sets hook other times no hook. man the hook grip is something else, that weight is stapled to your hands. it's cool too, you get these nice lookin bruises and such on your thumbs. good thing i'm not in school right now, i had a tough time writing in my training journal afterwards!

i think that pinched nerve i had from when i BEGAN training has come back. i've got the damn numb pinky again.
 
its good to read your updates superrice. Im tempted to give this a shot in the offseason, but ill probably go 5x5 first.

1 Q: Do you row at all to balance all the benching as far as shoulder health is concerned, and do you think its a problem...thoughts?
 
d-dub said:
1 Q: Do you row at all to balance all the benching as far as shoulder health is concerned, and do you think its a problem...thoughts?
Click to expand...

Long-term you want something like rows and overhead work to balance the shoulder out (especially some rows for the same plane of motion).

That said, this is a base program concentrated only on the core lifts. For most mortals doing this program there is no room for assistance work. You just don't run something like this all year long without ever doing some maintanence work on your body and addressing weaknesses through assistance work.
 
Thanks for the response madcow. I see your point, as you wouldnt run this type of program year round. I also thought you might be able to add the middle day as a row day but i that would just totally fatigue your lower back with all the deads and squats as well.
 
I've had some success doing extra workouts to hit weaknesses, however those workouts are non-existant in the fourth week. Usually, in these extra sessions they will be a half hour to fourty minutes long, working up to some snatch singles, then I do some rows, bodyweight chins, and light rotator cuff stuff. You'll get used to the lower back fatigue.
 
Madcow2 said:
Long-term you want something like rows and overhead work to balance the shoulder out (especially some rows for the same plane of motion).

That said, this is a base program concentrated only on the core lifts. For most mortals doing this program there is no room for assistance work. You just don't run something like this all year long without ever doing some maintanence work on your body and addressing weaknesses through assistance work.
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Do you think these programs were designed with testosterone, or similar, supplementation taken for granted? I guess the program is probably fine for anyone with decent conditioning and if you have supra-human recovery then you can extend it with assitance work.

I've read reviews of the Smolov routine which have pretty much said forget any idea of attempting the full program if you're natural.
 
Work capacity varies drastically and most people have none or train fairly infrequently and don't put much volume into the big lifts so they lack conditioning. I've done the 3x3 natural and although hard I never thought of quitting it (except during the deads) and it worked well. Many others have done the same. Super_Rice isn't exactly a world level lifter and aside from conditioning in his lower back he made it through with hard work - actually I thought it was too much for him to bite off at this stage so I am really impressed and obviously he's reaped the rewards from it. The 5x5 can be racheted up magnitudes harder than I have it set and combined with all kind of other overlay work - this is tolerated fine by well conditioned naturals (visit www.midwestbarbell.com forums sometime and check out Glenn's posts in the OL forum his lifters backsquat and frontsquat quite a bit and the classic lifts are trained with high volume and hammer them too and this involves a lot of deep squat recoveries - probably more than I can or ever was in shape to handle though). I've tried an OL program straight from a world champ who ran it natural without issue - I was dead in 2 weeks even scaling it back a good amount, literally no point in going on.

So the Smolov is really hard, plenty of well conditioned naturals have done it (I haven't run it myself). Probably have to benchmark what else you can do besides the squatting fairly carefully depending on the individual. The fact that some say you have to be on drugs to do it is more indicative of the level of general conditioning in most trainees today. Probably the best in our country are our top olympic lifters and let me tell you, when some of our up and comers have visited former Soviet and Eastern European countries - they are awed by just how damn hard those guys train and what they can do both drugged and non-drugged. This is not a rare reaction and it's not like these aren't some hard working guys already. They know how to train and they bust their ass. They've spent years increasing their capacity and workloads (a foreign concept to most trainees). Most people don't know how to train and have only busted their ass in the parameters of low frequency programs where a lot of the volume lies in lighter assistance work. They go in and hope that by doing some random crap they'll get stronger. They never think to systematically alter the load and scale it over time or spend their time on the exercises that really matter.

Am I surprised to hear this reaction, no. Do I agree with it, no. Do I think the people who have this reaction lack a reference for what the human body can handle, yes. Should these people be doing this program, no.
 
Excellent post Madcow.

What people don't understand is how to develop their capicity for work. the base shouldn't only be expanded vertically to use more weights, it must be expander wider. Adding more sets, more volume.

Most people with a 405x5 squat would do something like this/.....135x10-225x10-315x5-405x5.......the only set worth a crap for a 405 squatter is the last one. This is fine as an 'amping-up' phase or a deload phase or a phase of reduced volume or whatever........but most trainees keep volume this low all year, never expanding work capicity. And, like Madcow said, they only thing they pound away with set after set after set is accessory stuff. In a loading period, I recently did an OHP workout, where 4x5 was my warm-up, I then did 5 singles, and then 3x5 as backoff sets. I don't and certainly can't do that year round, but at times limits need to be pushed, the base must be expanded not only up, but out.

People need to get out of the mindset of this...."okay, bench today.....135x8-225x8-275x5-315x2, then a bunch of flyes and hammer strength machines for 2 hours". .........It is okay to hammer away at the core lifts.

I don't want to rant, but this country is so brainwashed and misguided as a whole when it comes to strength training. there is just no access to good info. and therefore, a lack of interest in it. You can't walk into the supermarket and see MILO on the newsstand, but if you want FLEX, you've got your pick of the last 3 month' issues.

Point being, naturally, the body is capable of so much more than people think. Assisted, the body is capable of so much more than people think.
 
A lot of expanding work capacity has to do with expanding mental capacity and perspective. During the second week of Korte, I felt like I was in way over my head, but as third week rolled around, and I began to adapt, I was actually thinking of ways to increase the volume and scale up (which I did).

Rodney Wood brought up running another cycle right afterwards to really acclimatize, but since I will be a freshman in university come September, I decided to "scale down" with 5x5 and assistance work. Since Korte's, 5x5 really is not that hard the way it is written.

My point is, work capacity is as mental conditioning and perspective as it is physical conditioning. As you guys pointed out, we need to change the way we think and approach training.
 
Indeed, I see that a lot in the gym. There's one guy who benches exactly the same every time he's in: 135x5, 225x5, 315x5. He then moves to the machines. Last week he was complaining bitterly that he can't make six reps. I've seen him doing that same bench pattern for four months since I joined the gym.

Still, putting your rant aside, I'm still surprised that hardcore-seeming sites would fall into that mindset. My surprise is probably mostly a testament to the expectations that madcow has opened up on this forum, though. I spent a year having only 60 minutes to reach the gym do everything and get back to work. The compound exercises were too clearly the best bang for the buck not to spend most of my energy on them.

Thanks for the info madcow. Unless work gets in the way, I think I'm going to be starting the Korte after next week. My question was more geared to the Smolov than the Korte but even the Korte offers ranges of sets to play with for individual tolerances. The Smolov looks truly brutal but I think that six months ago I might have said the same of the Korte. The 5x5 felt uncomfortable when I first started to experience the five sets of five.
 
BiggT said:
Excellent post Madcow.

What people don't understand is how to develop their capicity for work. the base shouldn't only be expanded vertically to use more weights, it must be expander wider. Adding more sets, more volume.

Most people with a 405x5 squat would do something like this/.....135x10-225x10-315x5-405x5.......the only set worth a crap for a 405 squatter is the last one. This is fine as an 'amping-up' phase or a deload phase or a phase of reduced volume or whatever........but most trainees keep volume this low all year, never expanding work capicity. And, like Madcow said, they only thing they pound away with set after set after set is accessory stuff. In a loading period, I recently did an OHP workout, where 4x5 was my warm-up, I then did 5 singles, and then 3x5 as backoff sets. I don't and certainly can't do that year round, but at times limits need to be pushed, the base must be expanded not only up, but out.

People need to get out of the mindset of this...."okay, bench today.....135x8-225x8-275x5-315x2, then a bunch of flyes and hammer strength machines for 2 hours". .........It is okay to hammer away at the core lifts.

I don't want to rant, but this country is so brainwashed and misguided as a whole when it comes to strength training. there is just no access to good info. and therefore, a lack of interest in it. You can't walk into the supermarket and see MILO on the newsstand, but if you want FLEX, you've got your pick of the last 3 month' issues.

Point being, naturally, the body is capable of so much more than people think. Assisted, the body is capable of so much more than people think.
Click to expand...
So that post and this whole section is going into the 5x5 thread and indexed.

It represents a paradigm shift in how most people think about training (which is sad because this isn't rocket science, this is foundation/must know stuff). Hence people's reaction to the Smolov or initially even the reaction here to the frequency of the compound lifts in the 5x5 - which I think at this point enough people have gotten good gains and seen others routinely make solid progress (and more than a few have said the best progress of their lives) that they realize it not only can work for them but is pretty tolerable for just about the whole population providing it is setup correctly.

A) You don't need 7 days of rest before training a muscle again (Although there are times in a macro plan when such frequency can serve a purpose)

B) You don't hold volume constant and only play with intensity.

Granted it's easy to make cookie cutter programs geared to the workload tolerance of the least common denominator (LCD), because only varying intensity has a smaller effect on workload and tolerances to workload vary widely with experience and between individuals of the same experience. But this is a shoddy way to coach because it's only optimal for the few who are the LCD and the goal is to get optimal performance out of each individual - and you don't get that with cookie cutters even though it might be nice to sit on your butt and not have to do your job.

Now as an individual, it's even worse because YOUR optimal performance really matters to YOU and you are then playing the odds in hope that you are the LCD or not very far away from it. God forbid you are experienced with a high tolerance and complain because the built-in defense mechanism is to say "Well, look at these guys - they did great. You need to work harder." Obviously this goes the other way in people taking on a program that is too much for them and you get "Those guys are on drugs. Nobody can do that. I tried it and overtrained."
 
Madcow2 said:
Hence people's reaction to the Smolov or initially even the reaction here to the frequency of the compound lifts in the 5x5 - which I think at this point enough people have gotten good gains and seen others routinely make solid progress (and more than a few have said the best progress of their lives) that they realize it not only can work for them but is pretty tolerable for just about the whole population providing it is setup correctly.
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Amen. I've said this previoulsy but it bears repeating- I'm stronger now than six months ago when I was ON A CYCLE OF AAS. There is SO MUCH more to training than I previously believed. I've barely scratched the surface of "real" training and I'm continually making progress at a level that is past where I ever thought I'd be (meaning I never thought I personally could hit 250 pounds, let alone keep gaining beyond it).
 
Hey, just wondering, how many of you guys have done cycles (of AAS) and are not resorting to better training systems? WTF, am I the only natural person here? :S
 
Natty here. Well, I ran a low-dose three-weeker of pro-hormones back in January. It might have helped me in my first run of the 5x5. I cycle creatine.

I am tempted often, though, but a lot of that is the andropause.
 
Blut Wump said:
I am tempted often, though, but a lot of that is the andropause.
Click to expand...

I hear they have these manual pumps that still allow for erection and performance....:)






-actually I knew an old guy (late 60s) who had one. It broke and his insurance company would only put in a cheaper different model. Well the new cheap model malfunctioned all the time on him when he was getting ready. He had to appeal to the insurance company and was just so damn bitter for like 6 months until it could be swapped out. So damn hilarious. He was a friend of my fathers and my father would relate all of this to me as it was going on (including the intimate details of it failing on him) and just have me rolling on the ground laughing until I had strained everything in my midsection. I still laugh about it today.
 
With the sleeping thread in the forum, I ask, does overreaching affect quantity and/or quality of sleep?

This is related to Korte's because, from my experience, I was a sleeping machine the first three weeks, sometimes getting in 12+ hours (no school w00t). However, near the end of my cycle, as I felt other signs of over-reaching (loss of "bounciness"... etc) I was sleeping terribly, always sweating and feeling hot. It's not like it was hot in my house, in fact it was very cool, but everytime I tried to hit the sack, I was jumpy and hot. For about a week, I was sleeping ~4 hours a night. Since I've stopped the loading, sleep patterns have returned to normal, ~9-10hrs.

Interesting.

I just finished the last workout of week 5, and it's taken a full 7 days to deload to feeling 80%. My vertical jump is not up to par, and I'm not as jumpy/boucny feeling so I doubt I'm 100%. This was the first workout in the unloading/competitive phase that I haven't gotten any low back cramping. The results can only get better as my body recovers.

5x5 is much much easier, as evident by the recovery process. I was feeling fresh after 2-3 days post 4 week loading, as compared to the 7 days in Stephan Korte's 3x3.
 
super_rice said:
Hey, just wondering, how many of you guys have done cycles (of AAS) and are not resorting to better training systems? WTF, am I the only natural person here? :S
Click to expand...

I took creatine like 5yrs ago but that's it, never even considered AAS (Well the way I look no one's ever accused me of juicing ;) ).

It's funny nowadays at the gym you want to talk about training cycles and everyone automatically thinks steroids.
 
I've been caught like that, too. I was chatting with a guy at a leisure center gym and mentioned that I was coming to the end of a cycle and suddenly his eyes were flitting side-to-side looking to see who might be in a position to overhear. It was a couple of days later before I worked it out (I'm so young and naive).
 
Update
Just finished the first session of my third week, I just hit two singles of a 10 pound PR for backsquats (315) very very easily... and I played five hours of straight paintball on saturday so it was done feeling drained! Can't wait to complete this and see how the results go. 350 may be awaiting me at the conclusion of this program.
 
Nice PR work super rice. How has your bodyweight been affected while doing the Korte3X3?

You said you had no problems gaining size on 5x5, is there a similiar affect here - or are you not eating as huge in hope of mostly neural gains?
 
Yes, I'm hoping for mostly neuromuscular gains, however I believe if I had eaten more, I would be stronger. My bodyweight has not really changed, I've managed to stabilize it at 180 (however it required eating only twice a day for a week or two) and now eating regularly.

Gaining size is not a problem. Being strong for one's size is a huge issue.
 
This dual-factor stuff really does work. :)

I've just re-read the thread and it looks like the later weeks of the volume phase really take their toll after which you pupate and come out reborn as a better, stronger lifter. You have this and one more week to go. Looking good.

Congrats on the PR, good luck on the next one.
 
Also, on the deadlifts, sumo deadlifting is not real deadlifting. It has some merit, but I wouldn't really use it much at all unless I was competing at powerlifting and pulling sumo. It can be a good assistance exercise for your hips, hamstrings, and glutes but pulling conventional (and especially of standing on a 2-3" box or plate) will induce much more strength and size gains overall.

the dumbest fucking thing ive ever heard..
got tell tweakle (a 700puller) that hes not really deadlifting since "his" form is not text book
 
I agree wnt2bbeast. However, what your point in that post? :confused: Didn't quite get what you are saying there, who's pulling sumo?
 
I haven't read all these posts but I have used this method of training before.
I felt the conditioning weeks were way to easy, esp after training singles for many months...with that being said, I saw slight improvement on my dl and sq, little on bp.
I felt out of practice with singles when it came time to do them. My tri's didn't get the needed work either, i felt...in short, I like having ME days every week instead of every 4 weeks...
If i did it again I would modify it by adding a few exercieses
 
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