Some new PRs, but also stuck on other stuff

[ceo]

what were you doing when you tore your pec last year?

I'm guessing you were doing flat bench press when you tore your pec. 99% of the time that's the case...yet people still do this exercise.

 

[djeclipse]

I really understand where you're coming from - we're all taught that the bench press is the measure of a man and then we get to where we really enjoy the lift - two things that make dropping it really difficult (trust me, I loved it too).

Replacements would depend on what your goals are. I don't know anything about your history, progress, or future intentions.

But whatever your goals are, the choice is really up to you; if you're just lifting for fun and staying healthy and active, then I would basically suggest doing whatever doesn't hurt. If your pec is the source of pain, then I would suggest moving the emphasis to shoulders with some tricep assistance. Honestly, I don't really see any point in chest isolation exercises if you're not a bodybuilder (and by bodybuilder, I mean one that competes, not someone who just wants to take AAS and look big). And trust me, OH BB presses are sooo much harder and more impressive than bench; people who bench 235 are a dime a dozen, but people who can push 235 overhead are fucking men.

Moving focus to more functional areas (e.g. back, shoulders, posterior chain muscles) will not only make you stronger, it will greatly reduce risk of future injuries.

Plus, who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy with a wide, thick back and massive delts or a guy with a regular back, average shoulders, and pecs that obscure his view of his yogurt-slinger?? I hope you pick #1.

Bench press is not a chest isolation exercise. If done properly you will recruit chest, shoulders and back (lats etc.). Isolation chest exercises are more like cable crap and flies. The flat bench is the best way to develop pressing strength, that is why we do it.

I agree about the OHP thing though.

 

[JimBoy]

I really understand where you're coming from - we're all taught that the bench press is the measure of a man and then we get to where we really enjoy the lift - two things that make dropping it really difficult (trust me, I loved it too).

Replacements would depend on what your goals are. I don't know anything about your history, progress, or future intentions.

But whatever your goals are, the choice is really up to you; if you're just lifting for fun and staying healthy and active, then I would basically suggest doing whatever doesn't hurt. If your pec is the source of pain, then I would suggest moving the emphasis to shoulders with some tricep assistance. Honestly, I don't really see any point in chest isolation exercises if you're not a bodybuilder (and by bodybuilder, I mean one that competes, not someone who just wants to take AAS and look big). And trust me, OH BB presses are sooo much harder and more impressive than bench; people who bench 235 are a dime a dozen, but people who can push 235 overhead are fucking men.

Moving focus to more functional areas (e.g. back, shoulders, posterior chain muscles) will not only make you stronger, it will greatly reduce risk of future injuries.

Plus, who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy with a wide, thick back and massive delts or a guy with a regular back, average shoulders, and pecs that obscure his view of his yogurt-slinger?? I hope you pick #1.

OK..Who looks bigger/stronger/better: a guy w/ a wide thick back and massive delts, or a guy w/ a wide thick back massive delts and a big developed chest? It sounds like you are saying that if he works on his chest he will be neglecting back and delts, which in many of our cases is not so.
I do agree heavy OH presses are impressive and if I were to choose 1 over the other I would rather have shoulders/delts than chest.

If you tore your pec last year perhaps you shouldn't worry as much about numbers. With that said I still feel chest exercises are important for composition/looks, but you don't have to go too heavy.

 

[homeslizzle1985]

To clarify:
I know that benching is not an isolation exercise.

Lee had asked what alternatives I could suggest instead of bench pressing; what I meant to convey was that chest isolation exercises, such as flyes, pec deck, DB pullovers, cable cross-overs, etc, are pointless if you're not a competitive bodybuilder. Even most real bodybuilders don't make isolation movements the emphasis of their programs - they are ACCESSORY movements to compound chest/shoulder/tri movements. Thus, if someone couldn't do any horizontal presses, such as flat, decline, or incline bench press, then I think they would really be wasting their time doing a bunch of isolation movements.

The whole point I am trying to make is this: if your pec hurts bad enough to limit your ROM when doing a flat bench press, then why continue trying to get a bigger bench press if you aren't going to compete?? You WILL re-injure yourself (or injure something else due to overcompensation) and then you could not only destroy your chances of getting a bigger bench, but also risk not being able to do any upper body stuff at all.

I suppose I am going to have a different perspective than most because I lift with the main focus being competition preparation; if something doesn't seem conducive to my competitive goals, then I won't do it. Thus, as I don't PL anymore, bench pressing is useless to me - there isn't much benefit I can get out of doing it.

 

[djeclipse]

To clarify:
I know that benching is not an isolation exercise.

Lee had asked what alternatives I could suggest instead of bench pressing; what I meant to convey was that chest isolation exercises, such as flyes, pec deck, DB pullovers, cable cross-overs, etc, are pointless if you're not a competitive bodybuilder. Even most real bodybuilders don't make isolation movements the emphasis of their programs - they are ACCESSORY movements to compound chest/shoulder/tri movements. Thus, if someone couldn't do any horizontal presses, such as flat, decline, or incline bench press, then I think they would really be wasting their time doing a bunch of isolation movements.

The whole point I am trying to make is this: if your pec hurts bad enough to limit your ROM when doing a flat bench press, then why continue trying to get a bigger bench press if you aren't going to compete?? You WILL re-injure yourself (or injure something else due to overcompensation) and then you could not only destroy your chances of getting a bigger bench, but also risk not being able to do any upper body stuff at all.

I suppose I am going to have a different perspective than most because I lift with the main focus being competition preparation; if something doesn't seem conducive to my competitive goals, then I won't do it. Thus, as I don't PL anymore, bench pressing is useless to me - there isn't much benefit I can get out of doing it.

I understand what you are saying.

So you used to Power lift and now you're getting into competative body building?

You say bench doesn't benefit you now, but all that benching while you were doing PL has built you a solid base including chest.

So while you may not need to bench any more as you've already built some size in your chest, someone just starting out that doesn't have that base will need some kind of bench press exercise, as your chest will not get bigger by doing overhead press.

I may be in that boat as I may have added weight to my bench and over head press to fast after being off for a year, now I haven't been able to do any press for about a month now. My chest seems to be getting better, but my shoulder is still in pain.

 

[homeslizzle1985]

Oh no, not me! I have never taken AAS (nor shall I) and so I will never be or try to be a bodybuilder. I did PL, but Strongman is much more fun and functional. I'm going to start Olympic lifting at the end of the summer to increase explosiveness for Strongman.

I keep saying stuff about bodybuilding because it seems that most folks on these boards are into training for aesthetics, i.e. looks, size, etc. I just think that if you are not a competitive bodybuilder, not being able to bench press isn't the end of the world for your physique.

 

[fortunatesun]

would it help if i did some low weight short reps, perhaps from chest to about 3 inches off chest, to try to get past the pain in my pec from the old rip?

Yes. Working a muscle should help it heal faster than not working it. It should be a little bit over the midway point of your pain threshold- hurting halfway. Doing your reps fast should also help. You can do this 4-5 times a week for best results.

If it were me, I'd still try to include a full ROM. Maybe those 1&1/2 presses.
Or you could work in the rack with the pins 3" your chest to keep the barbell from travelling too far

Good thread. I like the issues raised about the importance of doing bench press. It seems sort of a fundamental type movement. There's endless variations, including push ups. I guess it doesn't hurt to find out if there's something better.

 

[djeclipse]

Oh no, not me! I have never taken AAS (nor shall I) and so I will never be or try to be a bodybuilder. I did PL, but Strongman is much more fun and functional. I'm going to start Olympic lifting at the end of the summer to increase explosiveness for Strongman.

Who said anything about AAS? Do you think powerlifters, and stong man don't take AAS? There are AAS in pretty much every sport, including olympic lifting.

I keep saying stuff about bodybuilding because it seems that most folks on these boards are into training for aesthetics, i.e. looks, size, etc. I just think that if you are not a competitive bodybuilder, not being able to bench press isn't the end of the world for your physique.

I just can't stand the term Bodybuilder, lol But I still stand by what I said, bench press is the best way to develop pressing strength, which in turn develops the chesticles. It's hard to not do it when first starting out as it is the best possible exercise for chest.

 

[homeslizzle1985]

Who said anything about AAS? Do you think powerlifters, and stong man don't take AAS? There are AAS in pretty much every sport, including olympic lifting.



I just can't stand the term Bodybuilder, lol But I still stand by what I said, bench press is the best way to develop pressing strength, which in turn develops the chesticles. It's hard to not do it when first starting out as it is the best possible exercise for chest.

Yeah, I see how that sounds...let me clarify:
1. There is no possible way to ever compete seriously in bodybuilding without steroids. End of story. You can not win any bodybuilding show without juice, not even local ones.
2. Yeah, a ton (I would say 9/10) of elite level athletes in strongman and powerlifting use steroids. But on the local and state level, after many, many years of training, there is a chance of winning without steroids. Being competitive without 'roids takes years longer than someone using them, but I think it's well worth the wait.

 

[djeclipse]

Yeah, I see how that sounds...let me clarify:
1. There is no possible way to ever compete seriously in bodybuilding without steroids. End of story. You can not win any bodybuilding show without juice, not even local ones.
2. Yeah, a ton (I would say 9/10) of elite level athletes in strongman and powerlifting use steroids. But on the local and state level, after many, many years of training, there is a chance of winning without steroids. Being competitive without 'roids takes years longer than someone using them, but I think it's well worth the wait.

But the same thing can be said about power lifting and strongman. If you want to compete at any level you're going up against guys that are on AAS. No matter what level you're competing at. AAS is not more present in bodybuilding, then powerlifting or strongman.

The only reason people think there is more AAS use in bodybuilding is because they are at a very low BF, and that is why the general public thinks the typical "JUICE HEAD looks like. But the truth is there is just as much AAS use in Power lifting/ Strongman.