Rotator Cuff is trashed. Adequan OR Deca?

[Whacked]

Which will heal it better/quicker?

 

[Zyglamail]

Which will heal it better/quicker?

First off you have to understand that inflamation is a key element in the healing process so using Adequan, which is an NSAIDs, will not heal your shoulder at all, it will simply deal with inflamation and help with pain. It will actually greatly prolong or prevent healing all together. If your rotator cuff is trashed you need to figure out why and address that problem so the cuff will heal.

Likely your problem is lax tendons and ligaments which allowed the joint to get sloppy and excessive wear to take place.

 

[Whacked]

As much as I didnt want to hear that -- makes sense thanks

 

[Zyglamail]

As much as I didnt want to hear that -- makes sense thanks

My beleifes are not shared by much of the medical community, which is rather ironic since one of the 1st things they learn in med school is about the "healing cascade" and the associated chain of events and their effect on healing. Somewhere along the line they lose site of the actual problem and begin to treat the symptom(ie pain and inflamation) instead of the problem (ie lax tendons/ligiments).

Check out prolonews.com, they have some great articles on a process called prolotherapy and it works wonders.

 

[LoneTree]

My beleifes are not shared by much of the medical community, which is rather ironic since one of the 1st things they learn in med school is about the "healing cascade" and the associated chain of events and their effect on healing. Somewhere along the line they lose site of the actual problem and begin to treat the symptom(ie pain and inflamation) instead of the problem (ie lax tendons/ligiments).

Check out prolonews.com, they have some great articles on a process called prolotherapy and it works wonders.

You got that right, because you don't know what you are talking about.
Little knowledge is dangerous. We know more about injury and healing now than we ever did. Try reading something about Leucotriens, tumor necrosis factor, and other mediators.
You have to reduce inflammation for healing to occur.
I don't know what type of problem you have, whether you have impingement syndrome or a tear. But if your Orthopod had not recommended Arthroscopic surgery, then it is a good situation.
Use both. You can't go wrong.
But if Surgery has been recommended, then have a second opinion, and follow the advice.

 

[Zyglamail]

You got that right, because you don't know what you are talking about.
Little knowledge is dangerous. We know more about injury and healing now than we ever did. Try reading something about Leucotriens, tumor necrosis factor, and other mediators.
You have to reduce inflammation for healing to occur.
I don't know what type of problem you have, whether you have impingement syndrome or a tear. But if your Orthopod had not recommended Arthroscopic surgery, then it is a good situation.
Use both. You can't go wrong.
But if Surgery has been recommended, then have a second opinion, and follow the advice.

I rest my case.

 

[Zyglamail]

Let me elaborate a bit here. When I am speaking or inflamation reduction as bad that is specific to your shoulder injury if it caused by lax tendons/ligament (which is usually the case). The key factor is identifying the injury. If the injury is muscle related then yes, reducing inflamation in important. Its important because the muscle is encapsulated with the fascia and the edema can actually reduce bloodflow due to the limited space within the fascia.

However in the case of tendons/ligaments which by the way, lack the vasculariy and in turn blood supply of the muscle tissue, the anti-inflamatories and icing can be very detrimental. For example for each 10 deg celcius incease in temp there is more than a two fold increase in metabolism and at the same time reducing the temp will have a negative effect on metabolism.

During a typical sprain, cells are injured(ie broken). The cell walls are rich in arachidonic acid and this along with other factors like glycosylated proteins, attract granulocytes and fibroblasts to the injured area. granulocytes include macrophages and nuetrophiles which clean up damaged tissues and debris. In order for Granulocytes in the blood stream to stay once they arrive to the injured area they rely on their special lectins for intracellular adhesion. These selectins bond to proteins that are glycosylated.

One of the reasons for the painfull inflamation is because platelets and immune cells release a vasodilator called histamine. This is followed by an even more prolonged vasodilatory response mediated by other substances including serotonin, bradykinins and prostaglandins. This has the effect of increasing circulation. Bradykinins also increase capillary permeability allowing transudation of fluid and attraction of inflammatory cells into the injured area.

Decreasing the inflamatory response above via ice and anti-inflamatories WILL decrease your chance of healing. The use of anti-inflamatories combined with continued heavy training further injures the already weakened site and you end up in a worsening spiral of continued injury.

The cellular turnover of tendon/ligaments is roughly 300 to 500 days. They are very poor in vascularity so it is very important to allow them to heal and take advantage of the inflamatory response.

 

[Triple J]

Adequan is a glucosamine-like containing product (POLYSULFATED GLYOSAMINOGLYCAN, to be specific), thus it is nutritional in nature, it is not an anti-inflammatory in the same sense as NSAID drugs like ibuprofen. It stimulates and aids repair of cartilage, and will modulate inflammation at these sites. So wether or not it is helpful for your shoulder depends on the specific nature of your injury. I say give it a try it will not harm you but the injections are a little painful, inject slowly to help ease the pain at the injection site.

 

[Jenetic]

Let me elaborate a bit here. When I am speaking or inflamation reduction as bad that is specific to your shoulder injury if it caused by lax tendons/ligament (which is usually the case). The key factor is identifying the injury. If the injury is muscle related then yes, reducing inflamation in important. Its important because the muscle is encapsulated with the fascia and the edema can actually reduce bloodflow due to the limited space within the fascia.

However in the case of tendons/ligaments which by the way, lack the vasculariy and in turn blood supply of the muscle tissue, the anti-inflamatories and icing can be very detrimental. For example for each 10 deg celcius incease in temp there is more than a two fold increase in metabolism and at the same time reducing the temp will have a negative effect on metabolism.

During a typical sprain, cells are injured(ie broken). The cell walls are rich in arachidonic acid and this along with other factors like glycosylated proteins, attract granulocytes and fibroblasts to the injured area. granulocytes include macrophages and nuetrophiles which clean up damaged tissues and debris. In order for Granulocytes in the blood stream to stay once they arrive to the injured area they rely on their special lectins for intracellular adhesion. These selectins bond to proteins that are glycosylated.

One of the reasons for the painfull inflamation is because platelets and immune cells release a vasodilator called histamine. This is followed by an even more prolonged vasodilatory response mediated by other substances including serotonin, bradykinins and prostaglandins. This has the effect of increasing circulation. Bradykinins also increase capillary permeability allowing transudation of fluid and attraction of inflammatory cells into the injured area.

Decreasing the inflamatory response above via ice and anti-inflamatories WILL decrease your chance of healing. The use of anti-inflamatories combined with continued heavy training further injures the already weakened site and you end up in a worsening spiral of continued injury.

The cellular turnover of tendon/ligaments is roughly 300 to 500 days. They are very poor in vascularity so it is very important to allow them to heal and take advantage of the inflamatory response.

Well said.

Jenetic

 

[tical]

own3d.

 

[The Terminator]

Best choice may be surgery (once consulted by a physician), but CERTAINLY some rest would help...

 

[Whacked]

Thanks again for the help

 

[Zyglamail]

Adequan is a glucosamine-like containing product (POLYSULFATED GLYOSAMINOGLYCAN, to be specific), thus it is nutritional in nature, it is not an anti-inflammatory in the same sense as NSAID drugs like ibuprofen.

You are correct I got it confused with something else.

This does birng up something else I would like to share on the topic though which kid of ties into The Terminators comments on surgery. My opinion is surgery should be the last resort. Most surgery is going in and "cleaning" things up. This is done by scraping away tissue where it is being damaged. Once again, this is not addressing the problem, but the symptom. If you are suffering damage to the rotator cuff you have to ask yourself why? More often than not it is tendon/ligament laxity that is not holding the joint nice and tight. Its allowed to move outside of its intended home and thus causes wear and in turn inflamation and pain. If there is laxity in the joint and cartiledge etc is scraped away, then what does that leave you with?? even more slop in the joint! If you have the tissue thats removed during a surgery tested I can just about gaurantee the tissue will be in a state of proliferation. This is a state of healing, why would you want to cut out tissue that is attemtping to heal itself? The key is to strengthen and thicken the tendons and ligaments so the joint is once again stable then there is a good changce the damage will get repaired by your own body if its allowed to.

 

[onehugern]

I would look more into Adequan( polysulfated glycosaminoglycan) to promote joint healing. Adequan is related to heparin.I beg to differ Adequan is not an NSAID drug. (It does inhibit catabolic enzymes in the joint matrix.) Adequan improves the viscosity of synovial fluid in joints, it stimulates chondrocytes and synoviocytes to synthesize collegen and HA. It has a low side effect profile.( Ask your local vet.) Adequan was originally used on racehorses as we know the goal initially is not quality of life for a racehorse. It is to get him to compete at a high level. I may be going out on a limb but most people on this forum want to be competing with themselves or others on a high level.

 

[zedhed]

In my years of experience with chondromalicia I have used Adequan with excellent results. Using the Adequant with THERAPUTIC doses of deca works wonders. Adequan can only be obtained with a script from you Vet (typically) so that may be an issue for you.
Good luck however you decide to go, and keep us posted on your results plz.