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Removing BA from "solution"

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PolfaJelfa

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This thread is meant for bros experienced in "sollutions".

Im interested in how to remove excess BA that was added in too large of a quantity to a soultion rendering it unusable. I think it is possible to put in a 18g pipe on the top and then heat up the sollution to a certain temp, while letting the BA evaporate. However i would like to know the DETAILS...For example the exact temp, etc.. I do not want to destroy or harm the solution.

Any help is much apreciated guys,
Karma to all with good advice :qt:
 
I believe the temp at which you would want to bake the solution would depend on the hormone that you want to prevent from being denatured. What type of solution is it?
 
Test....remember bro i dont want to bake i just want to get rid of BA...this is what your geting at right?
 
Bro, temp doesn't matter. It's a hormone, NOT a protein. Protein denatures in heat, losing it's tertiary structure, hormones don't. You can heat test base up to it's melting point of 155C, over 300F, nothing will happen to it's structure. As for baking alcohol out of solution, I've tried it but it never seemed to work, so I just make my gear with 2% BA now, making my own I never have to worry about too much BA.
 
Thanks, but still i need to know how to get rid of the damn ba...
 
Hey Polfa, trying doing a search using ANDY13 as a cross reference. He had a couple of ideas awhile back that he posted up here. Can't remember off the top of my head exactly what they were, or the outcomes, but it's an idea.

I think unless you want to cut it with more oil, every other procedure is gonna be a pain in the ass, in terms of BA removal.

BMJ
 
Cuttin git with oil is not an option its already too much....Thanks for that though i will do a serach on andy13...

Karma to you BMJ
 
BA has a low evaporation point. You can hesat it up at loe temos and the BA will evap off. You shouldn't have any problems since the test will have a much higher boiling point.
 
Thanks, i believe this is also this way. However it would be nice to hear from someone who has already done this procedure
 
Well, I have a degree in chemistry and I know a lot about this even though I haven't been around steriods that long that same chemical rules apply. This is how you could do it. Stick an 18 or bigger gague needle in the vial to vent it and heat some water on the stove until it lightly boils and then stick in the vial. The test will heat up and the BA will evaporate. I believe the boiling point of test will be close to 200 degrees maybe higher and the BA is probably in the 80 to 90 degree range.
 
Thanks bro, i feel more confident about this now. Karma to you as soon as i can spread some more.
 
that does no tseem right..alcohol sin general ...have low BP and evaportion ratios.....im not a chem wiz but i know that much...where are you tkaing this 205 # from?
 
He's right bro, google it. BA has a bp of 205 celcius. Seems weird to me too but that's the only answer I could find. That's probably why I've never had success evaporating BA... b/c you can't do it, you'd have to set your oven to a little over 400 degrees, and the rubber stopper might melt at that temp. If the BA is too high, not much you can do but cut it.
 
draw your solution, add 1 ml of bacteriostatic water, swirl it around and eject the bacteriostatic water.

Your solution now has less BA.
 
i'm sorry to tell you but BA boils at around 240 degrees celsius bro (depends a little bit but around 240). I think that dilluting it would be the only easy way around (if you know the concentration of BA in it at present and got more ingredients)

good luck
 
I depends on the test. If you're cooking Enanthate, which can literally melt in your hand, you should stay at 175deg for 10 minutes, three times. But it's rare that you'd need to do that for Enanthate.
For everything else 250deg for 10 minutes, three times is fine. You don't need to boil or melt anything. Alcohol evaporates pretty easily so heating it up a little in the oven just accelerates this process.
Some people do it one time for 20 min but my pins always melt shut when I do that.
 
Ok! Polfa I apologize for the information I gave you. I was going just off the basic proterties on alcohols without looking up the structure. They are right it does have a boiling point of 205 degrees C. I have never heard of a boiling point this high unless the alcohol is attached to a ring and in this case it is. So there is no way you can boil it off. I can figuer some ways to seperate it from the test, but then it wouldn't be sterile anymore. I just wanted to apologize for the info before I looked at the structure. If you have anymore chemical type questions feel free to ask me or PM me. It's usually not like me to give info. without looking into it first so again I apologize.
 
Ok , broly no prob.
What other way do you think i can use? And believe me i think this **** will remain sterile...its got Way too much BA inside....2x as much as its supposed to be.
 
205 degrees..i think the glass might break at that temp...and the 18g plastic will melt.....there has got to be a way to do this.
 
Well the problem is heat is not going to help at all. We are talking about 205 degrees celsius, which converts to about 400 degrees fahrenheit.Trying to evaporate at this temp is going to be diffcult. There is no boiling point listed for the tests, but I would say that looking at it's structure it will be very high if at all. What exactly did you do to get too much BA and what was the actual solution suppose to be. I need this information to help you more.
 
Well the problem is heat is not going to help at all.
Click to expand...
The problem is that you've never done this so you don't what you're talking about. We've been cooking off excess solvent in gear for several years. It's not a new experiment. Many times the solvent will evaporate right in the vial without ANY heat or ventilation. This is witnessed by those who have AS that sits for a long time and suddenly they see the material fall right out of the solvent and appear as crystals or powder at the bottom of the vial.

The temperatures I wrote are F not C. It doesn't take much heat to accelerate the evaporation process.

There is no boiling point listed for the tests,
Click to expand...

Of course there is a list of test ester melting points. Several as a matter of fact.
HE didn't do anything to get too much solvent in the vial. The underground manufacturers don't work in a Clean Room so they make it up by adding more solvent. They also put more material in it than there should be to get high concentrations that people want. The only way to do that is to use a ridiculous amount of solvent.
 
1st of all im going to have to go by Ulters advice....i believe you realy know what you are talking about like always. Second...actually Ulter..it was my fault...i put the excess Ba in there.....and btw i never use any underground manufacturers.... only Human Grade....and myself construed. The excess Ba is due to someone puting the Ba in there be4 , i basically did it again.
 
I will let you know how the "experiment of reducing ba goes"
 
Ok well you see ulter if you look in the merck index you will see that benzyl alcohol's boiling point is 205 degrees celsius not fahrenheit. If you can do math that turns in 400 degrees fahrenheit. Here is a link to prove my point http://chemfinder.cambridgesoft.com/result.asp. Oh! and one more thing I do not have to have done this before to know what I am talking about I know chemicals and I know their properties period. You nhave no idea about my back ground so please keep your mouth shut about what I do and do not know.
 
shamrock11 said:
Ok well you see ulter if you look in the merck index you will see that benzyl alcohol's boiling point is 205 degrees celsius not fahrenheit. If you can do math that turns in 400 degrees fahrenheit. Here is a link to prove my point http://chemfinder.cambridgesoft.com/result.asp. Oh! and one more thing I do not have to have done this before to know what I am talking about I know chemicals and I know their properties period. You nhave no idea about my back ground so please keep your mouth shut about what I do and do not know.
Click to expand...

I'd just like to point out that the discussion is about "EVAPORATING" off the BA, not boiling. As you surely know as a chem major or whatever, you don't need to be anywhere near BP to have evap. Just wanted to clear that up before you go spouting off at people who are trying to help.
 
True, increasing temp will greatly increase rate of evaporation, even if it's still nowhere near the boiling point. All that happens is the % of BA molecules with sufficient energy to escape into vapor phase goes up. As long as you have a pin in the vial to vent this newly-evaporated BA, the concentration of BA in the gear will go down. No idea how long it actually takes though, haven't had to try it in a long time. Would kick ass if someone could come up with a rough estimate of how long it takes to evaporate, say, 1ml of BA at 250F. Not sure whether or not the BA being dissolved in the oil carrier would slow it's evaporation, but a rough estimate would still give people a good idea of about how long it will take to reduce their concentration by any given amount. Hmm... maybe I'll try this tonight if I get bored.
 
shamrock11 said:
Ok well you see ulter if you look in the merck index you will see that benzyl alcohol's boiling point is 205 degrees celsius not fahrenheit. If you can do math that turns in 400 degrees fahrenheit. Here is a link to prove my point http://chemfinder.cambridgesoft.com/result.asp. Oh! and one more thing I do not have to have done this before to know what I am talking about I know chemicals and I know their properties period. You nhave no idea about my back ground so please keep your mouth shut about what I do and do not know.
Click to expand...
Your background doesn't mean squat if you are arguing against the experience of people who have used this method for years. The boiling point of BA has nothing to do with it's evaporation so why do you insist on bringing it up. It will evaporate just sitting on a table.
 
Chemically speaking, yes it will evaporate the BB, and the oil, and even the gear. A slab of metal sitting on the ground will evaporate too, just infinitesimally slowly. The difference is the relative rates of evaporation. BA, as an alcohol, is highly volatile, so it will evaporate very quickly. I don't know how volatile BB is, but it's not an alcohol so I doubt the same procedure will work quickly enough to be of any use. Also, too much BB isn't usually a problem.
 
I keep hearing about pins and venting. What about the spoon method? It's simple, I've used it. I bought a stainless steel tablespoon and heat it on low to med low depending on the stove until you begin to see some white smoke come off. Supposedly, that's the BA. No need to vent using a spoon.
 
cobra1414 said:
draw your solution, add 1 ml of bacteriostatic water, swirl it around and eject the bacteriostatic water.

Your solution now has less BA.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I am thinking that the test will end up in the alcohol/water mixture on the bottom, and the oil on top. Draw off the oil, but then you are left with a test/water/alchol mix! The concentration may be even higher now?
 
Water is polar, the oil and alcohol are non-polar. So, the oil and water won't mix. The alcohol, however, will mix some with the water. Gear is also insoluble in water so it will not dissolve into it. Eject the water, and you should have rid the solution of some of the BA. In theory, at least... how well this would actually work in practice is a totally different story.
 
shamrock11 said:
Ok well you see ulter if you look in the merck index you will see that benzyl alcohol's boiling point is 205 degrees celsius not fahrenheit. If you can do math that turns in 400 degrees fahrenheit. Here is a link to prove my point http://chemfinder.cambridgesoft.com/result.asp. Oh! and one more thing I do not have to have done this before to know what I am talking about I know chemicals and I know their properties period. You nhave no idea about my back ground so please keep your mouth shut about what I do and do not know.
Click to expand...


Let's try to keep this amicable and respectful please. :supercool
 
Tux said:
Water is polar, the oil and alcohol are non-polar. So, the oil and water won't mix. The alcohol, however, will mix some with the water. Gear is also insoluble in water so it will not dissolve into it. Eject the water, and you should have rid the solution of some of the BA. In theory, at least... how well this would actually work in practice is a totally different story.
Click to expand...

I am certain that alcohol is a polar solvent, in fact it is very polar. If you look at rubbing alcohol, none of it is 100%, most is like 70% alcohol and 30% water.

I also think that the test is polar, and water soluble, since there is test suspension you can purchase, and that is test in water.
 
maldorf said:
I am certain that alcohol is a polar solvent, in fact it is very polar. If you look at rubbing alcohol, none of it is 100%, most is like 70% alcohol and 30% water.

I also think that the test is polar, and water soluble, since there is test suspension you can purchase, and that is test in water.
Click to expand...

I don't know the gory details of why it works all I know is its cheap and easy and takes a lot of the pain out of prop.
 
Ulter said:
The problem is that you've never done this so you don't what you're talking about. We've been cooking off excess solvent in gear for several years. It's not a new experiment. Many times the solvent will evaporate right in the vial without ANY heat or ventilation. This is witnessed by those who have AS that sits for a long time and suddenly they see the material fall right out of the solvent and appear as crystals or powder at the bottom of the vial.

The temperatures I wrote are F not C. It doesn't take much heat to accelerate the evaporation process.



Of course there is a list of test ester melting points. Several as a matter of fact.
HE didn't do anything to get too much solvent in the vial. The underground manufacturers don't work in a Clean Room so they make it up by adding more solvent. They also put more material in it than there should be to get high concentrations that people want. The only way to do that is to use a ridiculous amount of solvent.
Click to expand...

This all sound exactly on the money to me. That alcohol would evaporate on its own ove time if you left the vial unstoppered, just that it would take waay long! Any heat is going to speed it up, so you could heat it real low in the oven for an extended period and not risk damaging the AS. WOUld have to be sure that there is an opening big enough for the alcohol vapor to escape.
 
Thanks to all you crazy chemists with all your diferent theories and methods. I apreciate it. But i still have a few things im woried about. Do you guys think 4x 18g pipes will sufice for vapor loss. Also..what do you guys recomend heating the vial in.....i don think a stove can bring up water to such a temp. So im guessing an oven...or an improvised bunsen burner...aka. Kitchen stove..the only thing is i dont want to crack the vial if posible. I know i should avoid direc tcontact with th evial and flame. Other than that what are some methods i can use to complete this little experiment.

Green to anyone who has any good ideas.
 
Sorry Maldorf, just look it up. All alcohols are NON-polar bro. Also steroids are NOT soluble in water, which you actually proved with your test suspension example. Why do you think test suspension and winny are WHITE? B/c the hormone isn't dissolved, it's just sitting there in the water. Water is polar, hormones aren't, they won't dissolve, so they just sit there "suspended". That's why winny and test suspension will clog the needle, the UN-dissolved particles get stuck. So, to recap, all alcohols are non-polar by their structure, gear is non-polar too. You're wrong on every single account bro. Do some more reasearch please. Oh, as a side note, you can buy pure rubbing alcohol at 100%, problem is that water and alcohol DO happen to be soluble in each other, so 100% or 200proof alcohol will saturate down to 190 just from the water vapor in the air. Also, 100% alcohol is illegal to sell in many states, like Everclear. Man dude, you don't know chemistry :)
 
an 18g pin will work just make sure the plastic doesnt melt

you should also buy a 'candy' thermometer or something else besides your oven gauge

i would do it in 10-15 min increments..

do you know how much ba you have to remove?

if you homebrew at all i would just recycle this oil/ba/test into a new batch and bring the ratios into a normal range
 
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Tux said:
Sorry Maldorf, just look it up. All alcohols are NON-polar bro. Also steroids are NOT soluble in water, which you actually proved with your test suspension example. Why do you think test suspension and winny are WHITE? B/c the hormone isn't dissolved, it's just sitting there in the water. Water is polar, hormones aren't, they won't dissolve, so they just sit there "suspended". That's why winny and test suspension will clog the needle, the UN-dissolved particles get stuck. So, to recap, all alcohols are non-polar by their structure, gear is non-polar too. You're wrong on every single account bro. Do some more reasearch please. Oh, as a side note, you can buy pure rubbing alcohol at 100%, problem is that water and alcohol DO happen to be soluble in each other, so 100% or 200proof alcohol will saturate down to 190 just from the water vapor in the air. Also, 100% alcohol is illegal to sell in many states, like Everclear. Man dude, you don't know chemistry :)
Click to expand...

LOL. first of all I did not claim to know for sure that test is soluble in water, if you read I was taking a guess. You are right about the test.

Alcohols ARE POLAR SOLVENTS! you are dead WRONG. so don't go correcting someone if you dont know your shit. All alcohols carry a partial negative charge around the oxygen atom, and a partial postive charge on the other end. So I think its time you hit chem 101 again,lol.
 
Alcohols ARE POLAR SOLVENTS! you are dead WRONG. so don't go correcting someone if you dont know your shit. All alcohols carry a partial negative charge around the oxygen atom, and a partial postive charge on the other end. So I think its time you hit chem 101 again,lol.
Click to expand...

Ethanol is semi-polar
 
Actually bro I aced chem 101, 102, inorganic, and organic, lol. Water is polar, gear is not. So it doesn't dissolve in water. Like dissolves like... gear dissolves in alcohol. Benzyl alcohol is fairly polar, but NOT compared to water, which is why it will dissolve the gear. Ethanol is mildly polar, so it will mix with water, but again nowhere near as strong as water. Why do you think water is such a great solvent? B/c it's strongly polar. Alcohol's, especially the ones we deal with, do not really come close. Technically speaking we could both be right, but overall, compared to water, alcohol isn't polar, which is why it works for us. If it were polar like water, then alcohol and oil wouldn't mix in the gear, they'd stay separate like oil and water. Just by simple observation you can tell that what I've stated is true bro. As far as it concerns us, at least, if you want to split hairs you can be right too, but if you try to carry out any chemical processes with your "highly polar" alcohols, lol, you're gonna fail miserably.
 
Tux said:
Actually bro I aced chem 101, 102, inorganic, and organic, lol. Water is polar, gear is not. So it doesn't dissolve in water. Like dissolves like... gear dissolves in alcohol. Benzyl alcohol is fairly polar, but NOT compared to water, which is why it will dissolve the gear. Ethanol is mildly polar, so it will mix with water, but again nowhere near as strong as water. Why do you think water is such a great solvent? B/c it's strongly polar. Alcohol's, especially the ones we deal with, do not really come close. Technically speaking we could both be right, but overall, compared to water, alcohol isn't polar, which is why it works for us. If it were polar like water, then alcohol and oil wouldn't mix in the gear, they'd stay separate like oil and water. Just by simple observation you can tell that what I've stated is true bro. As far as it concerns us, at least, if you want to split hairs you can be right too, but if you try to carry out any chemical processes with your "highly polar" alcohols, lol, you're gonna fail miserably.
Click to expand...

Humm.... earlier you said "Sorry Maldorf, just look it up. All alcohols are NON-polar bro."
Alcohols are polar and always will be, of course not all alcohols are of the same polarity. Those which are shorter chained are much more polar and have higher boiling points. The longer chained alcohols would work better in disolving aas, since they are less polar as you said, but they are still considered polar.
 
Last edited:
Ulter said:
The problem is that you've never done this so you don't what you're talking about. We've been cooking off excess solvent in gear for several years. It's not a new experiment. Many times the solvent will evaporate right in the vial without ANY heat or ventilation. This is witnessed by those who have AS that sits for a long time and suddenly they see the material fall right out of the solvent and appear as crystals or powder at the bottom of the vial.

The temperatures I wrote are F not C. It doesn't take much heat to accelerate the evaporation process.



Of course there is a list of test ester melting points. Several as a matter of fact.
HE didn't do anything to get too much solvent in the vial. The underground manufacturers don't work in a Clean Room so they make it up by adding more solvent. They also put more material in it than there should be to get high concentrations that people want. The only way to do that is to use a ridiculous amount of solvent.
Click to expand...


I have never tried to reduce BA in the oven. From a theoretical standpoint, it seems unlikely, especially when just a needle is used to vent (I imagine doing it with an open top would be far more effective..

But anyway, like I said, I have never tried it, and am only guessing based on chemistry principles..

Since you have experience with this, I'm interested to knnow if you have ever measured a decreased volume. I think a 1mL difference would be measurable.. Certainly by a balance,.

Do you calculate about how much BA you need to lose, then heat it for a some amount of time or do you rely on the trusty eyeball'ing measurement.


I have an idea of what MAY be happening that would account for the reduced inflamation and soreness, it depends on whether or not a measurable decrease in volume is noted.

Andy
 
Bros im no chemist but i do know Alcohol is non polar. This is why the alcohol and the oil will mix.
 
Last edited:
Bros im no chemist but i do know Alcohol is non polar,this is why the alcohol and the oil will mix. I think we can all agree water is polar hence the reason oil and water do not mix.
 
c gheller said:
Bros im no chemist but i do know Alcohol is non polar,this is why the alcohol and the oil will mix. I think we can all agree water is polar hence the reason oil and water do not mix.
Click to expand...

There are actual degreas of polarity, not just polar or non. Benzyl alcohol is by most means considered non polar, of course, relative to an AAS ester, BA IS somewhat polar, at least more so than the androgen.

Alcohols are largely misible in non polar solvents. Ethanol mixes with hexane, but methanol does not. This is assuming pure solvents. If the ethanol has a small amount of water, (4%) it's solubility properties change, and, for instance probably will not mix with higher alkanes.

class dismissed :)
 
Andy13 said:
I have never tried to reduce BA in the oven. From a theoretical standpoint, it seems unlikely, especially when just a needle is used to vent (I imagine doing it with an open top would be far more effective..

But anyway, like I said, I have never tried it, and am only guessing based on chemistry principles..

Since you have experience with this, I'm interested to knnow if you have ever measured a decreased volume. I think a 1mL difference would be measurable.. Certainly by a balance,.

Do you calculate about how much BA you need to lose, then heat it for a some amount of time or do you rely on the trusty eyeball'ing measurement.


I have an idea of what MAY be happening that would account for the reduced inflamation and soreness, it depends on whether or not a measurable decrease in volume is noted.

Andy
Click to expand...

takers?
 
PolfaJelfa said:
This thread is meant for bros experienced in "sollutions".

Im interested in how to remove excess BA that was added in too large of a quantity to a soultion rendering it unusable. I think it is possible to put in a 18g pipe on the top and then heat up the sollution to a certain temp, while letting the BA evaporate. However i would like to know the DETAILS...For example the exact temp, etc.. I do not want to destroy or harm the solution.

Any help is much apreciated guys,
Karma to all with good advice :qt:
Click to expand...

To be honest, the best kits on the market are probably Finafarm and they strongly warn against any heating of the solution other than the option of placing the vial in hot tap water to speed up the process.
 
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