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THeMaCHinE
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Is anybody testing with ketostix yet?
R-ala - My first try
- Thread starter Diesel3d
- Start date
THeMaCHinE
New member
ulter said:
I'd love to -- but I'm broke right now. I'm even holding off on buying my preworkout e/y/c stack. Brutal. Too bad the kids have to eat huh? (j/k)
If you want to set up some sort of trial, or cut me a deal to do a day by day reporting of effects, I'd be happy to participate -- you know that I'm open-minded, but not ga-ga over the hype...
Otherwise, maybe in a month or two...
We can't make it fast enough right now, so maybe another time. I'll make a note of it in my book.
As far as the hype thing goes though. A member here just asked two hours ago "what is r-ALA and where do I get it?" If someone had found a better more effective way that I could get the same results from 300mg of test, instead of using a gram and putting up with all the sides that gram causes me, I would be pissed if they didn't stand on their heads and scream about it on every board there is until I saw it. We're just getting the word out.
As far as the hype thing goes though. A member here just asked two hours ago "what is r-ALA and where do I get it?" If someone had found a better more effective way that I could get the same results from 300mg of test, instead of using a gram and putting up with all the sides that gram causes me, I would be pissed if they didn't stand on their heads and scream about it on every board there is until I saw it. We're just getting the word out.
THeMaCHinE
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ulter said:
Cool, make that note. And rest assured, when I say "hype" I don't mean it in a negative way.
Diesel3d
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i don't see how this would be considered hype. ALA is one of the biggest things on this board, so it's very important people know about this. for the better of all the people using ALA, the word needs to get out to maxamize our progress and saftey . For gods sake 99.9% of us depend on ALA to detox our liver.
The facts of r-ala and s-ala are very real, you can see here http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151547 ....
The facts of r-ala and s-ala are very real, you can see here http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151547 ....
THeMaCHinE
New member
Diesel3d said:
As I said above, hype is hype, I'm not assigning a negative connotation to it. Are you?
I'm fully aware of the facts about R(+)-lipoic acid, S(-)-lipoic acid and the racemic mixes of the two. I was posting articles about them before AF even came out with the product. Decadense was actually the one that brought R and S properties to my attention.
There's no doubt that pure R ALA is technically a better product than racemic mixes. However, there's no doubt that racemic mixes have been used effectively for quite some time by athletes, diabetics and life-extensionists.
If you're using it as an antioxidant, than R vs racemic doesn't really matter as both R and S have effective antioxidant properties (although R is admittedly better). And I would surmise that the insulin sensitivity issue in this case would be nil as small quantities are consumed for this purpose and the R and S components would effectively cancel one another out (with R gaining a slight edge).
Where it may matter is for those using it to induce ketosis. In racemic mixes, the S does have some negative insulin sensitivity impact (and other issues), but the R component is able to overtake that. By definition, half of racemic mixtures are R-type. Traditional ALA manufacturing produces a R/S racemate mix of 50/50. Assuming you get a product that isn't damaged (as Ulter aluded to) than your mix will be 50/50. It's not separated because it's very expensive to separate. (Pure R is manufactured with a different process that doesn't yield the S racemate.)
As a result, you have to proportionally ingest more R type in a racemic mixture than you would in a pure R-type formulation. (we don't know what this ratio is yet though, although 3:1 is what is being 'hyped').
In simple terms, we need to know that for a given body of subjects it took 3 grams (example) of racemic to maintain ketosis (as tested by ketostix), and under the same conditions, it only took one gram (example) of R to maintain the same state.
But, in the real world, most guys that are using it to induce ketosis are going in only several week bursts and then returning to homeostasis. So, once you are at or over the ratio threshold (ex. 3:1) in short applications, does the advantage of pure R really matter except in only the most technical sense? There's data that suggests long-term ingestion of S is not great for you, but in a short application I don't really know.
So, we have to take some time and see if it lives up to the hype.
THeMaCHinE
New member
So, in some ways, it becomes a cost issue. I can get a 50/50 racemic mix at a $16.50 price point. This 50 grams will contain 25 grams of R. We can get the pure R type for $19 (?) for 10 grams and it is all R. So if the pure R works 2.5x or better than the racemic mix, it's worth it from a cost standpoint. But we don't have anybody testing with ketostix yet to tell us if this is the case...
superchicken
New member
24 hour results:
ive used 1300mg in the last 24hrs, i worked out very intensly this morning on an empty stomach. had about 70carbs post workout, w/ 300mg r- ala.
im showin about 4-5 mg per 100ml of ketones.
im not overly impressed but i need to give this a few more day so all the variables in my diet and life can equall out, and i can make a more accurate comparison. i have been on reg ala for 2 months prior to this.
ive used 1300mg in the last 24hrs, i worked out very intensly this morning on an empty stomach. had about 70carbs post workout, w/ 300mg r- ala.
im showin about 4-5 mg per 100ml of ketones.
im not overly impressed but i need to give this a few more day so all the variables in my diet and life can equall out, and i can make a more accurate comparison. i have been on reg ala for 2 months prior to this.
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