Pycnogenol ... like dbol for muscles and dnp for fat

[NFG123]

Not really.

But this is interesting guys:

I just got back from wal-mart. Im feelin kinda sh*tty today and went to go pickup some more bottled water and goggles for swimming ... the water here where i live is awful. Anyhow. I had read some stuff on pycnogenol, interesting little drug. It comes from pine extract. For anyone who has the last muscle and fitness, it seems to show great promise for killing fat while on a diet, at least in a petri dish.

Well, the stuff is pricey. You need to take 1 mg / kg of bodyweight per day for an effective usual dose, but a 1.5 mg / kg loading dose is required for days 1-7. I found a twinlab 50 mg (60 ct pills) for $31 online. This is kinda steep. I wasn't gonna try it out for that ... but low and behold, walmart has a better deal.

From Sundown, I found a pycnogenol complex, with selenium, grape seed extract and CoQ 10 @ 10 mg. It also has some leutein in the form of whole food extracts, but that isn't the important thing. At $9 for 45 pills and 25 mg of pycnogenol / pill it beat the pants off of what I found at the best price online.

So, this is an anti-ox complex. Drop your multi-V, pickup Supertwin from twinlab one a day and this complex, and load up for the loading phase. It's cheap, and effective.

Here are some more reasons why this might be beneficial.

a) its safe, this has been studied for over 50 years.
b) it has been shown to increase endurance in training atheletes at the specific dosage given
c) it prolongs the half-life and increases the effectiveness of C and E. If you aren't already taking this at 1 g / 800 IU a day respectively you should be. E abates muscle soreness at this dosage post-exercise and is a great anti-ox.
d) pycnogenol is 20 x more potent than C and 50 x more potent than E at neutralizing free radicals.
e) FAT LOSS. It shows potential for fat loss, good stuff, not this chromium mumbo jumbo but real trigylceride oxidation in vitro. Human trials are on the way.

So:

Get your Xenadrine, Green Tea extract (work synergistically), and pycnogenol and get ripped.

Also, for those who want to run the dnp route @ 300 mg day for burst cycles, or even the newer micro-cycles I have heard about, I highly suggest taking this stuff on top of it. DNP is a known carcinogen, and the least you can do for your body is help give it a detox against what you run through it. It might save you chemo in the years to come. Thats if you want to keep your hair.

Out,
NFG

 

[Mr.X]

Also, for those who want to run the dnp route @ 300 mg day for burst cycles, or even the newer micro-cycles I have heard about, I highly suggest taking this stuff on top of it. DNP is a known carcinogen, and the least you can do for your body is help give it a detox against what you run through it. It might save you chemo in the years to come.
NFG [/B]

Hmm, where do I begin. My friend, when you state that DNP is carcinogenic/toxic, do you have any studies to back that statement up? I do not see how such a statement can be said with very little studies being done with DNP/humans...Now, to disprove your statement, here is a study to back up my theory that DNP is a miracle drug and does not have the side-effects people fear:

Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans
By Dr. Jacques Bell
Translation Copyright 1996 Robert Ames
II. VISCERAL ACTION

Dinitro treatment respects the liver, the kidneys, the cardio-vascular system and the blood.

This innocuity for the principal visceral functions is without doubt one of the main reasons for the distribution of this therapy.
Tainter, Stockton and Cutting have reported a series of cases in which one had measured the plasma bile index and determined the test of Van de Bergh. Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment.

Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney (Taitner, Cutting, Woodand Proescher). Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys.

As T.L. Schulte and M.L. Tainter wrote, "it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."

Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system. Even when the basal metabolism is found elevated to significant levels, there is no change in the rhythm of the pulse (Rosenblum).

On this point, dinitrophenol differs from all the other metabolic accelerants known. It is an observation that all the clinicians, today, have had occasion to make.

All the clinicians know that, contrary to thyroxine, dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart.

The research of Professor Loeper and of his students has demonstrated the physiological and clinical importance of myocardiac glycogen. Extensive studies by P.N. Taussig have shown that dinitrophenol does not reduce cardiac glycogen at all and that, on this point, it differs completely from thyroxine.

P.S. I'd like to see some studies that you might have to back up your theories...because, my friend, remember, misleading statements should not be said.
Mr.X

 

[NFG123]

Back out

I'm not going to trade off study citations with you, thats a waste of both our time. I was trying to be helpful.

Regarding your novel study that dinitrophenols are "harmless." They aren't. It's an ETC uncoupler, if you are familiar with how it works ... which you should be if you are going to use it.

But, I did some sneaking around for 5 minutes on the internet and found this:

<<Exposure to dinitrophenols occurs mainly from breathing air, drinking water, or eating food that contains the chemicals. At low levels, these chemicals may cause cataracts, serious skin rashes, and decreases in white blood cells. At high levels, these chemicals may cause increased heart and breathing rates, and even death. These chemicals have been found in at least 61 of the 1,430 National Priorities List sites identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). >>

BUT, you were right in regard to carcinogenicity.

<<The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), and the EPA have not classified dinitrophenols for carcinogenicity.>>

So, I apologize for that. That doesn't change my position on everything else though. I don't think cycling dnp is necessarily stupid, but I think like AS or anything else you should be an informed person making an informed decision. You definitely seem to be up to snuff, so good luck cuttin up.

Peace and Happy 4th
--New Guy

 

[Mr.X]

Look, the point of my original post was to show you that misleading information is NOT a feasible way to
"be helpful"...in the future, please do not say things without doing prior research. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to "flame" you, but I just cannot stand people that state misleading information. I do agree with your Pycnogenol facts, but the DNP statements, ummm, needs to be restated.

DNP will make you breathe harder via a mechanism called cellular hypermetabolism. You aren't going to die if you are breathing hard! DNP works by increasing ventilation and oxygen consumption via hypermetabolism of the cell. DNP makes you breath hard.


Role of tissue hypermetabolism in stimulation of ventilation by dinitrophenol.
Author Levine S
Source J Appl Physiol, 43(1):72-4 1977 Jul
Abstract

Several authors have hypothesized that tissue hypermetabolism accounts for increases in ventilation (VE) elicited by 2,4-dinitrophenol. However, some data in the literature indicate that stimulation of VE by isomers of dinitrophenol is unrelated to tissue metabolic rate. To test this latter concept, we compared three different isomers of dinitrophenol (i.e., 2,4-dinitrophenol (2,4-DNP), 2,5-dinitrophenol (2,5,-DNP), 2,6-dinitrophenol (2,6-DNP) with respect to stimulation of VE and with respect to stimulation of oxygen consumption (VO2). In all experiments, 3-4 mg/kg of one dinitrophenol isomer was administered to chloralose anesthetized dogs by intra-arterial infusion. 2,4-DNP elicited large increments in both VE and VO2, 2,6-DNP elicited moderate increments in both VE and VO2, whereas 2,5-DNP elicited small increments in both VE and VO2. These observations demonstrate a correlation between ventilatory and metabolic changes affected by isomers of dinitrophenol. Accordingly, these results are consistent with the hypothesis that ventilatory stimulation by congeners of dinitrophenol is related to tissue hypermetabolism.

POINT #2:

The longer I took DNP the more I realized those who had recommended DNP use, without anything to back up their recommendation, were not looking at the big picture, and they had most likely never used it or mixed it themselves, and/or were just complete morons!

Myth #1.
You die on DNP from heat related to overdose.
Wrong!
You die from dehydration resulting in heat exhaustion and then heat stroke.

Myth #2.
You can do it on high fat-low carbohydrate type diets.
NO YOU CAN'T!
High fat-low carbohydrate diets are based on keeping your blood sugar and insulin low. DNP will also drive down your blood sugar, so if you want to have blurry vision due to low blood sugar and feel like hell, you go right ahead.
Glucose also has some beneficial cellular effects when used with DNP..
Myth #3. You will go blind.
Right! If you do high fat-low carbohydrate diets and don't keep your blood sugar up and/or don't take pyruvate.


I would recommend you do some more research then 5 min. Also, I am not trying to "trade-off citations" with you, I am simply trying to figure out where your knowledge about the statement comes from.

P.S. Please do not misunderstand me...I respect your reasoning 100%, I just do not believe it's true..that is all.

Mr.X

 

[NFG123]

DNP

Hmmm

I'll just let all of that slide. If DNP works for you, great. But you are misinterpreting the literature. Be careful, but foremost, be big.

--Newbie

 

[Mr.X]

My friend, if I misinterpreted the literature, then please explain it to me...Now, I think this is going nowhere...as long as we are clear on the fact that: false statements should not be made, and are not a good way to help people. Then, we are fine.

I do agree that pycnogenol is a good supplement, but, agian, it's hyped up a little too much.

I have to end this by saying: TO EACH HIS OWN

P.S. I will leave everything off at this post...please, re-read my other 2 posts, I think they will educate you on the facts of DNP...all these studies were done by very compitent researchers and prominent doctors in the field of bio-chem and nutrition.

Mr.X

 

[VarixBro]

Just want to comment on Mr.X's post on the actions of DNP, but if you check PubMed and read some good studies on DNP (or find them scattered around the internet), DNP may not be as 'unhealthy' as one would think, since DNP does a great job of burning 'visceral fat', which is different than your normal subcuntaenous fat (yeah, i may have screwed up on the spelling here once again, oh well ). Point being, visceral fat is NOT good for our bodies, especially if we good amounts of it .

 

[cozmokramer]

Mr X.... back to the original post here... what do you
think of PYCNOGENOL...?

I'd really love to hear what you have to say about it
and whether or not you think its effect is worth adding
it to my daily intake..

Thanks

 

[Mr.X]

cozmokramer, well, to tell you the truth: Pycnogenol is hyped up too much...I have used it before without any change in anything...Also, I've read some studies a while back that peg it as a bullshit supplement, similar to HMB (I know you guys remember the HMB hype)....But, I would like to add that, unless I see more studies on it, I am not willing to put a specific 'bad-good' label to it. I've heard it's good and I've heard it's bad, but for the price charged for it (without any real evidence), I consider it a supplement that is purely based on choice.

Mr.X

 

[cozmokramer]

thanks MR X... your opinions are always welcomed as great
information....