Primo Is Overated!!

[khemix]

X, I would love your opinion on this, something I stated in another thread:

"You motherfuckers here on elite constantly tell people to build a good base before you juice, and seriously emphasize how important that really is, and look at him! You are contradicting everything you guys say by cheering him on with his abuse! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would consider a 2.5yr training history and using 1000mg's of ANY single compound abuse. It doesn't matter if you have an agenda because you dont KNOW OF ANYONE who has done it before, its still abuse!"

Now we all know what I look like so you can't go saying that and ill go ahead and provide them now. I've been here long enough I know a good bit and have helped out plenty of people. And I know that I'm the only one openly calling him out on this, but haven't gotten a response, only karma hits from people agreeing. I'm curious as to how many cycles satch has done, and just when exactly he started juicing in his training career? No offense to anyone here, and there's no doubt he worked hard for what he has.

Chris

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1350074

I have no idea what you're talking about? you're coming here, bashing satch for no reason. Why don't you post your pics to compare to his? he had the balls to do it.

Are you saying he should have done that in 6 weeks? you're full of shit. I've been in the fitness industry probably most of your life and I'll tell you that's nonsense. You're just jealous and being a dickhead. Some guys always want to put down those on top - pathetic.

Instead of putting people down, help people. With your 871 posts I doubt you've done any of that. So, go hijack someone else's thread. Am I bashing you? sure, I don't like you. You're a snotty little bastard that likes to put people down. Am I right? Sure I am; judging by your thread the only thing you're interested in is putting down satch.

Why don't you go compete with the 2 -satch , carth - post your pics and really put your money where your mouth is. Please don't pull a FONZ on us, we already know all the tricks.

Anyhow, go be negative somewhere else.

Mr.X

 

[Mr.X]

"You motherfuckers here on elite constantly tell people to build a good base before you juice, and seriously emphasize how important that really is, and look at him! You are contradicting everything you guys say by cheering him on with his abuse! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would consider a 2.5yr training history and using 1000mg's of ANY single compound abuse. It doesn't matter if you have an agenda because you dont KNOW OF ANYONE who has done it before, its still abuse!"

I think you're misunderstanding what is happening. I belive most people on EF, newbies for the highest part will do AS(steroids) NO MATTER what. Be realistic, you know as well as I do, people will do AS no matter how much "base" they have. Is building a base optimal? sure. Will the majority of people do it? of course not. I belive that upwards of 90-96% of people on EF never built any base.

I doubt you can call 1000mgs of primo abuse when you have these newbie walking chemical power-plants doing Test/tren/dbol and anadrol at about 4000mgs of chemicals per week.

Why is everyone cheering satch? that's because he's worked hard and, damn, the man does look good. He ran the most mild, side-free steroid (besides anavar) out there and achieved wonderful results with it, thru hard work, dedication and will.

I recall reading a quote by William F. Halsey a long time ago, it went like this:
"There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet."

To be or not to be, to use or not to use, will not be the questions asked, rather what to use and how. I think most vets here would agree with me.

Should satch have workout out of 15 years, built a base then ran AS, sure, optimally in an ideal world he would/should. In reality, only a few people follow that route.

Did satch achieve great results? of course he did. That point no one can argue. He has amazing will and that's something very few have. As Vincent Lombardi once said: "The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will."

Mr.X

 

[khemix]

I think you're misunderstanding what is happening. I belive most people on EF, newbies for the highest part will do AS(steroids) NO MATTER what. Be realistic, you know as well as I do, people will do AS no matter how much "base" they have. Is building a base optimal? sure. Will the majority of people do it? of course not. I belive that upwards of 90-96% of people on EF never built any base.

I doubt you can call 1000mgs of primo abuse when you have these newbie walking chemical power-plants doing Test/tren/dbol and anadrol at about 4000mgs of chemicals per week.

Why is everyone cheering satch? that's because he's worked hard and, damn, the man does look good. He ran the most mild, side-free steroid (besides anavar) out there and achieved wonderful results with it, thru hard work, dedication and will.

I recall reading a quote by William F. Halsey a long time ago, it went like this:
"There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet."

To be or not to be, to use or not to use, will not be the questions asked, rather what to use and how. I think most vets here would agree with me.

Should satch have workout out of 15 years, built a base then ran AS, sure, optimally in an ideal world he would/should. In reality, only a few people follow that route.

Did satch achieve great results? of course he did. That point no one can argue. He has amazing will and that's something very few have. As Vincent Lombardi once said: "The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will."

Mr.X

You're ignorance never fails!!

Totally joking! You made many great points in that post but that doesn't set to ease the fact of just how often people rant and rave about waiting to juice and then everyone contradicting themselves in this situation. I never once doubted that satch worked his ass off because I'm sure he did. But that doesn't mean its still okay for him to use 1000mg's of anything after such a short workout time. Do you REALLY, HONESTLY think his muscles have had time to mature with 2.5yrs training experience?

I honestly think that if this was anyone other than satch saying they were taking 1000mg of anything with 2.5yrs of lifting, they would get bashed to a crazy extent. Sure satch looks great and puts ALOT of work into himself, but I think he should look much better for the amount of drugs involved. People have been telling others to wait and train more on this board for YEARS and so now everything changes when satch decides to go the heavy highway? Does that make it okay? NO.

The plain truth of the matter is that with 2.5 years of training he shouldn't even be thinking about juicing. According to 90% of what people say on here atleast.

 

[Mr.X]

You're ignorance never fails!!
your reading comprehension never fails to amaze me

Totally joking! You made many great points in that post but that doesn't set to ease the fact of just how often people rant and rave about waiting to juice and then everyone contradicting themselves in this situation. I never once doubted that satch worked his ass off because I'm sure he did. But that doesn't mean its still okay for him to use 1000mg's of anything after such a short workout time. Do you REALLY, HONESTLY think his muscles have had time to mature with 2.5yrs training experience?

I don't think you're understanding anything I said, please RE-read what I said. I didn't say it was "right" or "wrong", but rather I commented on what happened. I think you're completely out of touch with reality here on EF, we have 90% of users using after 3-6 months of working out, and that's NEVER going to change. I've been at this game before these newbies even left the house crib, and the story is always the same.

Are you correct that people should build a base? Sure. Do 90%+ of people out there build a base? NO! and no matter what we say, their mind is made up before they even ask

I honestly think that if this was anyone other than satch saying they were taking 1000mg of anything with 2.5yrs of lifting, they would get bashed to a crazy extent. Sure satch looks great and puts ALOT of work into himself, but I think he should look much better for the amount of drugs involved. People have been telling others to wait and train more on this board for YEARS and so now everything changes when satch decides to go the heavy highway? Does that make it okay? NO.

I think satch made the decision that was right for him and he is able to show off some positive results. I doubt you nor I can be judges of a positive achievement.

You're also misunderstanding genetics, which play a major role in AS use. Over my years with clients, I've had people that used 300mgs of test per week and get MORE results then the people using 2000mgs of test per week - that's reality (same diet, same training). You can't use your and others gains as basis to judge other, who are in different physical realms.

Like I said before. Is it optimal to do what satch did? NO, of course not. However, it is optimal for him, and to judge it would be foolish and ignorant. In retrospect, I belive that ideally bodybuilders should use safe techniques to get to their goals. Realistically, I know people don't/wont do it.

In addition, I think satch picked a very mild product to use. Primobolan (Methenolone Enanthate) is considered one of the mildest steroids out there. If I was to choose something for a begginer that's trying to go at it with minimal to no-sides, I would go with primobolan. Primo lacks the conversion to DHT, it has low CNS activity, and it doesn't aromatize (for the most part). Minimal effective dosages is around 400-500mgs, he was using double the "minimal" dosage, so I don't see what the whoo-laaa is all about. 1000mgs of primo DOES NOT = 1000mgs of test. If anything I'd compare 1000mgs of primo to 300-350mgs of Test (maybe 400 max)

The plain truth of the matter is that with 2.5 years of training he shouldn't even be thinking about juicing. According to 90% of what people say on here atleast.
90% of people say, but 90% of people that ask for advice don't follow. Be a realist bro, it's already done, he got great results, now drop it. It's a dead topic

Mr.X

 

[Outtlaw]

I think satch made the decision that was right for him and he is able to show off some positive results. I doubt you nor I can be judges of a positive achievement.

You're also misunderstanding genetics, which play a major role in AS use. Over my years with clients, I've had people that used 300mgs of test per week and get MORE results then the people using 2000mgs of test per week - that's reality (same diet, same training). You can't use your and others gains as basis to judge other, who are in different physical realms.

Like I said before. Is it optimal to do what satch did? NO, of course not. However, it is optimal for him, and to judge it would be foolish and ignorant. In retrospect, I belive that ideally bodybuilders should use safe techniques to get to their goals. Realistically, I know people don't/wont do it.

In addition, I think satch picked a very mild product to use. Primobolan (Methenolone Enanthate) is considered one of the mildest steroids out there. If I was to choose something for a begginer that's trying to go at it with minimal to no-sides, I would go with primobolan. Primo lacks the conversion to DHT, it has low CNS activity, and it doesn't aromatize (for the most part). Minimal effective dosages is around 400-500mgs, he was using double the "minimal" dosage, so I don't see what the whoo-laaa is all about. 1000mgs of primo DOES NOT = 1000mgs of test. If anything I'd compare 1000mgs of primo to 300-350mgs of Test (maybe 400 max)

Mr.X

This needs to be re-read by many people here. I couldnt have said it better myself. Especially the part about primo not being equal to test.

"Minimal effective dosages is around 400-500mgs, he was using double the "minimal" dosage, so I don't see what the whoo-laaa is all about. 1000mgs of primo DOES NOT = 1000mgs of test. If anything I'd compare 1000mgs of primo to 300-350mgs of Test (maybe 400 max)"

 

[paridhm]

I'll start off by saying I've never tried Primo, but I am curious. To the bros. who have used 600mgs/week and higher. Were the results worth the great expense of the gear? Basically, is there bang for the buck?

 

[Jenetic]

IMO, you have to try primo first before you say anything, I've ran primo at 600mgs/wk and higher and I'll tell you, I LOVED it - granted Fina of course is stronger /better/cheaper BUT it has horrible sides; with fina, I could barely take a breath at 296lbs...just not a good product.

Run primo for 12 weeks, come back to me and tell me how you liked the results.

Mr.X

Agreed. In addition, it's not fair for individuals to bash primo just because they can't afford it or can't get their training and nutrition together.

Jenetic

 

[borg4902]

I have no idea what you're talking about? you're coming here, bashing satch for no reason. Why don't you post your pics to compare to his? he had the balls to do it.

Are you saying he should have done that in 6 weeks? you're full of shit. I've been in the fitness industry probably most of your life and I'll tell you that's nonsense. You're just jealous and being a dickhead. Some guys always want to put down those on top - pathetic.

Instead of putting people down, help people. With your 871 posts I doubt you've done any of that. So, go hijack someone else's thread. Am I bashing you? sure, I don't like you. You're a snotty little bastard that likes to put people down. Am I right? Sure I am; judging by your thread the only thing you're interested in is putting down satch.

Why don't you go compete with the 2 -satch , carth - post your pics and really put your money where your mouth is. Please don't pull a FONZ on us, we already know all the tricks.

Anyhow, go be negative somewhere else.

Mr.X

Well maybeif you spent more time clicking on posts then reasearching dietary info to fuel your "Fight on Fruit" you would have seen the 150+ pics ive thown up in the last 6 weeks alone. I'm 2 weeks out and would be glad to post up next to satch and carth as I have stated several times. I am not trying to bash him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was very disapointed is all. I really thought he was going to look sick as hell ripped. 16 weeks!!!!!! 16 weeks!!!!!!! Come on now X being in the fitness industry as long as you have you know the transformation that can occur in that time. Im just saying I was dissapointed is all. Hell for like a week I was waiting for the real pics to come out....but none ever did. Yea he gained some weight and lost some fat. Wow!!!! Didnt need 16 weeks of Primo for that is all im saying here. By the was I lostlike 30 natty before starting my cuting cycle, someone mentioned that...?

 

[needsize]

I believe we call that "owned" now a days

maybe you should follow what happens on this board, he is running a contest diet, and you tend to drop massive amount of weight when you do that. Your original post shows you have zero knowlege about whats being talked about here.

And as far as the original subject goes, I'm not here to bash anyone, but this is all another example of people not only using drugs when they shouldnt be, but using amounts that are way beyond necessary. I have the worst genetics in the world for gaining mass, but over the years I put in my time, not just training, but researching the hell out of every training and diet approach I could find. And as result, I would put my natural pics up against at least 80-90% of the people on this board who admit to juicing. And my pics after just one cycle of 500mg of test, I would put up against minimum of 90% of the people on here. And the sad thing is I wasnt huge, my physique wasnt impressive, at least not to me, but I actually worked for what I attained, before jumping on juice

 

[Mr.X]

Well maybeif you spent more time clicking on posts then reasearching dietary info to fuel your "Fight on Fruit" you would have seen the 150+ pics ive thown up in the last 6 weeks alone. I'm 2 weeks out and would be glad to post up next to satch and carth as I have stated several times. I am not trying to bash him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was very disapointed is all. I really thought he was going to look sick as hell ripped. 16 weeks!!!!!! 16 weeks!!!!!!! Come on now X being in the fitness industry as long as you have you know the transformation that can occur in that time. Im just saying I was dissapointed is all. Hell for like a week I was waiting for the real pics to come out....but none ever did. Yea he gained some weight and lost some fat. Wow!!!! Didnt need 16 weeks of Primo for that is all im saying here. By the was I lostlike 30 natty before starting my cuting cycle, someone mentioned that...?

You might say you're not bashing him, but it's clear you are. You're disappointed, I think not. What satch did in 16 weeks is a good achievement. Again, read my 2nd post, 1000mgs of primo would barely = 300mgs+ of test, so there is not much comparison - you're thowing apples and oranges out there and hoping they are the same, they are not.

You were waiting for pics, now you saw them. All I see now is you bitching and moaning about your disappointment with the way satch looked; jesus bro, get a life. It's amazing that people would waste their time being disappointed at someone's good achievement.

Also, I don't see how you're judging that he didn't need 16 weeks of primo. Do you really belive you can guess the time someone needs to make improvements? (someone you have no clue about) that's fairly hard even for a great buff like Dan Duchaine. When using primo, gains are VERY mild and fat-loss comes slowly if you're on balanced diet. I think looking at the whole picture: AS/diet/training/genetics, you will find that it's a LOT harder for some to gain/get results then for others. That's a staple standard in the industry.

No matter how you flip-flop here, you're bashing satch, and you wont drop the topic, which makes you seem very immature.

As for me, I get 100s of emails/PMs per day (mix and match), I don't have time to look at every post. Sure, maybe your pics are out there, who knows. Right now, I don't care, since all I see in your posts are negativity and hate. EF is a home for a lot of people that support and provide positive advice; it's not for negative and pessimistic agendas. Jealousy and hate is the downfall of mankind.

Mr.X