Please Help - Training for College Athletics

[lacrosse206]

Hi all,

I am brand new to this whole gym culture and bodybuilding. I am a 2 sport athlete [Soccer and Lacrosse] and just recently graduated HS, and am moving on to college. I plan on playing MCLA/NCAA lacrosse this coming spring and want to get in better shape. I am currently 6'1 and only about 155, very lean. I have a very low BMI and a very high metabolism. I live less than a mile from a very nice Athletic Club with gyms and other facilities at my disposal, however due to my sports schedules this is the first time I am able to use them extensively.

I am looking to bulk up significantly, while maintaining my speed and getting much more muscle. I want to look like a p90x builder without losing any speed [due to size] but I don't want to lose wait, rather gain it. I don't lift at all so I think I should be able to gain muscle quicker than otherwise. I don't care the price of the workout, but what would you veterans advise in terms of workouts?

Once again:
Want to gain size
Want to gain alot of definition
Want to look ripped [Like post-P90x]
Don't want to lose athleticism or speed

What workout routine should I begin to achieve these results? [Ignore speed, because as long as the workout won't drop my 40 time from 4.55 to much higher, I can just get a speed trainer]


Thanks for your time and advice! Feel free to message me as well if thats easier!

***Not interested in any sort of steroids, PEDs or anything of the sort. All natural. Thanks!!!

 

[_cato_]

As a beginner, and given your goals, you are going to be best off probably with a 3 day/week (4 days max) weightlifting routine. Something like Rippetoe 3x5 is a good choice, which consists of (default program) 2 workouts which you alternate between on 3 nonconsecutive days a week.

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power Cleans

Never work out 2 consecutive days. If you don't know how to do power cleans/can't find someone to teach you then you can substitute for 3x5 parallel rows or pullups/chinups. Every time you repeat an exercise on a new day, add 5 lbs, except deadlift where you should add 10 pounds. Warm up with around 3 sets of 2-5 reps before you go for your work sets listed above.

You can do speed/conditioning work in the mornings on the days you work out and then do weight training in the evenings.

The other option would be to do an upper/lower 3 day split if your legs can't take the squatting 3x a week while also doing speed/conditioning work; this depends on how much speed/conditioning work you intend to do.

Either way, you'll want to focus on compound lifts and increase the weight each time you perform an exercise.

Make sure you are eating a ton of food, or you aren't going to grow. I can't stress this enough. Especially if you are doing a ton of speed/conditioning work, which will burn a ton of calories. Don't neglect speed training. You will need to get stronger/faster to move more weight at the same speed as you are now.

 

[_cato_]

I am currently 6'1 and only about 155, very lean.
...
Once again:
Want to gain size
Want to gain alot of definition
Want to look ripped [Like post-P90x]
...

Just wanted to address this briefly. Given your height and weight, and as you yourself state, you are obviously not carrying much body fat. There are two ways you will look more "ripped" as you say, either you can gain muscle or you can lose fat. Obviously, you don't need to lose fat at this point.

Accordingly, you need to focus on lifting weights and on eating a ton of food. Any cardio/gpp/speed/conditioning type work that you do should be purely for performance purposes (for lacrosse), and not for the purpose of trying to reduce bodyfat, which you obviously already have very low levels of.

 

[lacrosse206]

Thank you!

That's all really great to hear, thanks again. I am curious what I can do now on those "off-days". Assuming I do the gym 4 times a weeks, what can I do for say, 2 more days of the week, that can take time while working on my goals?

Also, assuming I make good progress on the Rippetoe thing, how long-ish do you think til' I could start something more extensive like p90x?



I was thinking [before I asked about it on here] that I would try to build mass first than sculpt it, but than again I have no idea how it works so... At the weight I am at, and the height [I expect to top around 6'2] I am already defined mostly because I don't have much body fat. What sort of foods do you suggest [or anyone suggest] to consume in order to get bigger fast? I have a very high metabolism so just eating to eat may not help. And would mass gainer powder or protein powder be a good addition to a routine?

Thank you, alot!

 

[obsessedwliftin]

If you make good progress on a Rippetoe 3x5 or a 5x5 you will forget about all this P90x stuff. I have done both p90x and Insanity. Finished both programs when I was rehabbing from hernia surgery and could not lift heavy. Those programs are great for someone who needs to shed pounds and get back into somewhat decent shape but if you truly want to pack on muscle and size, compund movements like the ones mentioned above will get you there much better. In the shape your in now P90x would be a breeze. Insanity would be way to much cardio and cause you to burn the muscle you do have now since you are not carrying alot of fat. The only way to achieve the physique you are after is to hit the weights. Eat correctly, and make sure you are getting in the rest you need. Those off days? You are going to need these to allow your muscles to recover from weight training. I played soccer all the way through college so I know the cals you are burning bro. Sometimes more is just not better. Take a rest or your body will force you to through injury, lethargy, or you will simply see drops in your lifts or your performance on the field.

 

[Amp45]

So is the OP training for college athletics like the title of the thread states or aesthetics? These are two different methods of training..

 

[lacrosse206]

So is the OP training for college athletics like the title of the thread states or aesthetics? These are two different methods of training..

I am looking for a combination. Right now, here is a list of things I do/can do and I guess you guys could assess that to see where I am at?

I'm 6'1
155 lbs
Run a 4.6 40yd dash [MUST keep speed]
About a 6:00 mile
Curl 35s
Bench 160-165
28 curlups
70 situps - 60 seconds
42 cm forward stretch
36 pushups - 30 seconds

WHAT I EAT NOW***:
I haven't been active in my sports for a good 2 months since the end of playoffs, haven't been to the gym and this is what i've been eating:
Hot dogs
Chips, crackers etc.
Hot pockets, corn dogs, other microwavable J u n k
Not much red meat
Cereal, cinnamon buns for breakfast
>>> I haven't gained or lost any weight since the end of the season, haven't done much cardio or exercise. I keep getting told on other sites to "EAT RIGHT" but what does that imply for someone with a high metabolism like I do? Powders, Red Meat, Fruits and veggies?

That's just a bunch of basic information, I know it isn't impressive but I thought I would share just so you guys could get a little grasp on what I'm trying to do. And the main reasons I got recruited were for actual Lacrosse skills, height and speed. I'm not actually as weak as those things show, I just don't get to workout much because we practice 3 hours daily and focus more on running and skills in practice.


>>>To address your Q exactly: I was to improve my aesthetics first, and than once that is done, begin working directly on sports improvement. My logic behind this is that at my rate, I don't need to get that much bigger to succeed at the next level, and I can't lose my speed, but if I pack on aesthetically, some of those muscles will be of use in the sports world anyways. Plus I am playing in a beach town... So...

Once again you guys rock and are wayyy better than the people over at bodybuilding forums... Thanks!

 

[_cato_]

I'm 6'1
155 lbs
Run a 4.6 40yd dash [MUST keep speed]
About a 6:00 mile
Curl 35s
Bench 160-165
28 curlups
70 situps - 60 seconds
42 cm forward stretch
36 pushups - 30 seconds

So what this says to me is that you have very good medium distance speed, pretty damn good endurance speed, but strength wise you are quite far behind, which is to be expected since you don't really lift weights. Your bodyweight movements are good, but that's to be expected from an athlete of your level and weight. I'm guessing you play middie based on what you've said?

I think from a performance stand point, you can get faster at short and medium range and possibly long range as well, and obviously get stronger from lifting weights. Following a compound oriented program will also put size on you all over, which is something you need. Working out on a bodybuilder-style 5 day a week split won't be ideal for you for several reasons, among which are that first you are a beginner and second you are already having trouble gaining weight. Every additional weights workout you do means you need to eat even more just to balance out the caloric expenditure.

WHAT I EAT NOW***:
...
Hot dogs
Chips, crackers etc.
Hot pockets, corn dogs, other microwavable J u n k
Not much red meat
Cereal, cinnamon buns for breakfast
>>> I haven't gained or lost any weight since the end of the season, haven't done much cardio or exercise. I keep getting told on other sites to "EAT RIGHT" but what does that imply for someone with a high metabolism like I do? Powders, Red Meat, Fruits and veggies?

So obviously you eat like total shit. You should read the diet sticky on the diet forum on here: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuilding/dieting-information-614057.html. Since I suspect you won't do that, the short of it is that you need to consume at least 3000 calories (as a place to start), and at least 1/3 of that should be coming from protein. At least ~310g of protein IDEALLY. The diet should most be made up from meat: e.g. Lean Hamburger Pork Chops Steaks Fish Shell Fish Chicken Turkey Ham; starches ie whole grain breads, potatos etc; fruits/vegetables; eggs, dairy (if you tolerate it well) etc. To simplify it further, hitting the total calories and hitting the protein goals should be most important to you.

>>>To address your Q exactly: I was to improve my aesthetics first, and than once that is done, begin working directly on sports improvement. My logic behind this is that at my rate, I don't need to get that much bigger to succeed at the next level, and I can't lose my speed, but if I pack on aesthetically, some of those muscles will be of use in the sports world anyways. Plus I am playing in a beach town... So...

I'm not sure how competitive you are trying to be at the college lacrosse level (whether you are trying to play D1 or whatnot), but I think you are underestimating the size of some of the people you are going to be playing against. Regardless of your stick skills and speed, if you're facing someone who's got 50+ lbs on you, which is completely feasible at this point, you're going to be pretty easily knocked on your ass. If you want to be really competitive at that level, you need to gain some weight.

With regard to routine, as I said earlier, I'd recommend starting with 3 days a week of weights. If you're dead set on doing 4 days with weights against my advice, then take a look at the ultimate training split sticky at the top of this forum: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/ultimate-training-split-650464.html. That's a good routine to start with for a 4 day split. Since you probably won't actually look at it, and since I've never seen anyone actually use that program when it was recommended, becausebeginners often insist on inventing their own garbage routines, here's a basic template:

(workout 1)

Bench Press or Board press variation 4 x 3-5

Wide Grip chin 4 x 6

Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 3 x 8

Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8

Skull Crushers 3 x 10

(workout 2)

Squat or box squat 4 x 5

Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10

Ab work 3 x 10

forearms 2 x 20-30


(workout 3)

Incline bench press or Shoulder Press 4 x 5

Rows 4 x 8

Tricep pushdowns 2 x 10

Preacher curl 2 x 10

Ab work 3 x 10


(workout 4)

Deadlift or rack deadlift 4 x 5

Single leg squat variation 2 x 10

Calf Raises 3 x 15

Forearms 2 x 20

If you chose to do this, you would probably do your sprint/conditioning work on the upper body days. The article in the sticky actually addresses exactly how you can do that type of work.

Last, I agree with pretty much everything obsessedwliftin wrote above. You definitely shouldn't be doing p90x/insanity. And recovery is very important, you don't need to be doing exercise every minute of every day, especially when you're already having trouble with a "high metabolism," which usually translates to you aren't eating enough to support your current activity level.

 

[lacrosse206]

Damn, thanks man! I certainly will do what you guys are recommending, not sure what other beginners do but I have no expertise in the area and i'm at a point in life where I'm trying to improve myself in all aspects, and any advice is welcome so thank you!

I'll do the 3 day a week thing, not 4, I just wasn't sure if you said 3 OR 4 days because you weren't sure of my commitment. I'm going to be playing competitively at a high NCAA level so I certainly do need to gain weight, and that for me goes not only for performance but aesthetics too because I want to look bigger as well.

I do eat like complete shit, however that isn't saying that I can't eat well. If given a proper diet list or a list of what should be consumed [like you did[] I can certainly commit to eating properly. I'm not a couch-potato, I just didn't make it a point to change my performance and appearance until recently.

I'm assuming the 3 day workout would just be the first of the 3 workouts you posted, would that be in a row, or with a break between each day than a rest on weekend? Like I said, I have access to a very nice facility less than half a mile away in my neighborhood so commitment to going is no problem. However, I am not familiar with all the lift types/names/machines so should I just look on the internet for pictures of machines?




I realize I don't know shit about lifting or nutrition for it; The only guidance I have had in terms of fitness was a running coach we had for preseasons and he didn't even improve form so that was garbage. Thank you, I honestly appreciate all the help i'm getting!

IN REVIEW:
>Where can I found out exactly what the named lifts are? [Machines at my Athletic-Club aren't titled]
>What days of the week should the 3 workouts be done?
>Since i'm doing 3, what days should speed/agility be done? [I'm not going to do a full speed routine, just some basics to make sure I don't lose anything. Plan on eating more those days to catch up with cal-loss]
>At what point is starting a p90x/insanity routine feasible? I am really trying to get not only into top shape on the inside but I would also like to improve aesthetics greatly, to a typical post-p90x look

THANKS!!!

 

[lacrosse206]

Also this is clearly going to be a beginner's question... But does overeating in terms of calories damage the routine? I feel like I may be in situations where I reach the calorie intake but not the protein intake, in this case is it ok to just hit some protein powder to fill the protein need for that day?

And I did in fact print out that nutrition sticky and am going to review it. Looks like chinese to me now but I suppose understanding will come with time..